Sableye

[yoyofsho16]

There's lots of threads with this topic somewhere in it but let's keep it here.

Sableye is not any more broken under BW rules.
It automatically gives you the first turn, but if anything that HELPS other decks even more... Sableye will be a viable starter in any deck if anything to give you t1 and prevent other Sableyes from going t1. In a Sableye-Sableye situation a more solid deck can always Judge or Initiative the donk away, since Sableye needs a good hand for a donk.

You all are also missing one KEYYYYY part of Uxiedonk: Pluspower will no longer attach to Pokemon.
Sableye will not be able to continually keep doing damage, and neither will Uxie. If you survive the donk, Sableye will just not work for many more turns.

I just think this is overhype as always... if Sableye donk really sees more play, it will just make high-HP basic decks like Gigas more frequent. It can't search with hand-shuffle and can't donk without the right cards in hand.

A deck that can't do anything past t1 just doesn't work out... Shuppet saw its most damage last CC's when trainerlock was really not that present, and Shuppet could reuse Pluspower, clear an Expert Belt target, and wall with Mime, in a format that had little trainerlock. Sableye has none of those options with lots of Trainerlock and benefits that will also improve every other deck in format.

Just cool your jets and test more games with Sableye with BW rules and UPDATED lists for other decks.
Sableye will be VERY ANNOYING when you do hit it, but it won't win any games that last more than 2 turns. I'm more worried about Gyarados + Sableye and other more solid decks that can make use of him, honestly.

You all have to learn that never will any deck be uncounterable.
<3<3<3<3

 

[thisguy]

When people say Sableye is going to be a problem I don't think they're just talking about donks. T1 Sabeleye can use TSS to set up whatever it's playing (Gyarados, Garchomp C etc) and then Impersonate for Initiative, taking away your means of setting up and leaving you with nothing to deal with the 150HP beast that's about to start hitting you for 110 - with no energy cost.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

^^^ THAT's what I'd like to test against right there!

T1 T/S/S & Impersonate is kind-of a scary thought. You must admit.

Sabeleye as a set up card really gets a boost with that new T1 rule because now you can get a bench down and Impersonate for "the rest."

That's a pretty good prospect right there!

 

[PhadedPhione]

I sent pokemon an email to rename Sableye to Championeye. The Sabledonk deck is ludicrous. Playtest it, its just............blah.

 

[Kayle]

Sableye is not any more broken under BW rules.
It automatically gives you the first turn, but if anything that HELPS other decks even more... Sableye will be a viable starter in any deck if anything to give you t1 and prevent other Sableyes from going t1. In a Sableye-Sableye situation a more solid deck can always Judge or Initiative the donk away, since Sableye needs a good hand for a donk.

No it doesn't, it needs a Dark Energy and an Expert Belt.

 

[PhadedPhione]

Start with Championeye.
Use a Collector - get Uxie, Unown D and Crobat G
Used Unown D for the special dark, Crobat G / play the other cards in your hand, Uxie for 3 to 7 cards. If you draw expert belt, attach it. If not, poketurn the Crobat etc.

It's pretty flexible as far as plays to nail your opponent turn 1.

 

[Curry]

And what does it do past turn one?

 

[Kayle]

I wasn't aware it needed to do anything at all past turn one.

 

[PhadedPhione]

And what does it do past turn one?

Hopes you don't have more than one pokemon, prays to Arceus, leans on seeker try and force the end of the game.

I wouldn't play it just because its prone to spontaneous failure. But when it works, it makes you not want to play this game. If it saturates the format, it would make for a frustrating tournament experience. The deck can do very well at eliminating a pokemon on its first turn. It can punish bad hands, or even weak hands.

 

[yoyofsho16]

No it doesn't, it needs a Dark Energy and an Expert Belt.

And it needs to clear your bench if you have more than 1 Pokemon.

As I stated, I am more worried about Gyarados (which I didn't fail to get t1 or 2 ONCE when testing ~20 games with 4 Collector, 4 Sableye, and 4 Juniper), but people are constantly implying a donk deck.

People just are failing to mention that Sableye helps EVERY deck under BW rules.

 

[Porii Sames]

As a donk deck player, donk decks do, 90% of the time, get out everything they need T1 for a KO. Just sayin',

 

[Kayle]

And it needs to clear your bench if you have more than 1 Pokemon.

That's not as hard as you may think it is. You could make a focused donk deck and probably pull it off. Or, you could just run Sablelock with 2 Belts and an Unown Dark. Same successful deck - with a huge advantage T1.

But, also...

As I stated, I am more worried about Gyarados (which I didn't fail to get t1 or 2 ONCE when testing ~20 games with 4 Collector, 4 Sableye, and 4 Juniper), but people are constantly implying a donk deck.

People just are failing to mention that Sableye helps EVERY deck under BW rules.

Sounds to me more like it helps every deck that goes first!

 

[Shen]

That's not as hard as you may think it is. You could make a focused donk deck and probably pull it off.

Take Uxie donk, put in 4 Sableyes and exchange your Cyclone for a Special Dark. For each Sableye in your hand, it's one less card you draw on Set-Up. In addition to that, you are dealing with 1 less bench space. It makes a bigger impact on the deck than you think, build it really quick and try to deck yourself several times in a row (or at least draw all of your damaging resources like Poketurns, etc). Finally, Cyclone helps tremendously because it allows you to control what you make them Seeker and what you have to Overconfident/Psychic Restore.


Yoyo, I agree with you. I think this has been blown way out of proportion. Thankfully, it looks like Max Potion and Pokemon Catcher are being delayed so Gyara won't wreck too much. Still, it's pretty amazing that they can go first and still double supporter (Collector for 3 Magikarp for turn, Impersonate for Professor Juniper). Then there's Sablock which people aren't paying attention to which can Judge (Or Collector for Giratina/Chatot G) for turn and Impersonate Cyrus' Initiative all before you even get to act. It's a shame people are too worried about Sableye/Uxie that they forget about the rest of the competitive format. I honestly don't think you'll be seeing much Sableye in the later rounds or in Top Cut, it can't win that many consecutive games.

 

[Politoed666]

Really? You've got to be kidding me.

Okay, so the player who goes first has a huge advantage, because they can play T/S/S before the other player and get an extra draw. But mostly the T/S/S. I mean, going second was already a huge advantage because you had the first T/S/S turn, but playing T/S/S before your opponent even draws a card is brutal.

Sableye lets you go first. :O

 

[Shen]

^ Yeah that part of Yoyo's post I didn't agree with. Sableye will get better with B/W rules, there's no denying that. But, I don't think Sableye donks will become as big of a problem as everyone as saying, or at the very least there are other things we should be worrying about (Sablock, Gyarados, etc). That's the part I do agree with. At the same time, if everyone runs Sableye (in any deck that can make use of it) then its first turn abuse is almost neutralized because Overeager is canceled out.

 

[yoyofsho16]

Really? You've got to be kidding me.

Okay, so the player who goes first has a huge advantage, because they can play T/S/S before the other player and get an extra draw. But mostly the T/S/S. I mean, going second was already a huge advantage because you had the first T/S/S turn, but playing T/S/S before your opponent even draws a card is brutal.

Sableye lets you go first. :O

As I've stated multiple times, a LOT of other decks will be playing Sableye. I know what a huge advantage t1 trainers is, but I think Sableye/Sableye starts will be fairly common. As I've stated multiple times again, I recognize that this deck will be an annoyance. Its impact is just overhyped. No deck that can't win past t1 will ever consistently win tournaments.

 

[Kayle]

I'm sorry I'm not responding to entire posts but I'm at work.

No deck that can't win past t1 will ever consistently win tournaments.

Sablelock wins past T1 just fine.

Take Uxie donk, put in 4 Sableyes and exchange your Cyclone for a Special Dark.

That would obviously fail.

Sablelock with 2 Belts and an Unown Dark would not obviously fail.

 

[Shen]

^ Yeah I agree there. If you start with a lone basic against Sablock you will probably get donked, and it has the ability to carry on into a late game.

Still, a lot of people are worried that Sableye will bench you out and I don't get why they're so concerned over that. It can, but it's not a very good idea.

 

[gallade]

I disagree with kayle, sabledonk has a terrible time past turn one. It almost always gets revenge killed, and thats a free 1-2 prize(s). Then what? My 150 hp gyarados, and your going to do at max 40? (not including flasbites). Ok, my turn, warp point, seeker. Mesprit, lawl.

 

[Box of Fail]

The problem with Sableye isn't that it causes a particular deck to be insane. The problem is that if every deck runs it, matches will be decided by a coin flip.

Of course you can play Sableye to counter Sableye, but the only thing deciding the game in that case is who draws their Sableye, or if both do, who wins the flip.

gallade: Gyarados will be donked at least twice in three games versus Sableye I imagine. Notwithstanding you play 5 basics with 30 HP, Sableye will be able to effortlessly donk even a Regice, because it can now abuse Expert Belt going first. And what's to stop it from Flash Biting your bench to death as Shuppet did?

Now, if it doesn't donk, it can Judge + Initiative, meaning Gyarados stands no chance. You Impersonate? I judge/ initiative, then kill your Sableye.

Even if Sabledonk doesn't actually donk, a double lock is undeniably potent against anything. That's why it'll consistently beat SP and Gyarados as well. They'll have a really tough time setting up.