Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Seniors getting Worlds CP

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Dunkmaster

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Personally, I think it's ridiculous that Seniors who are aging up that top 16'd Worlds get to start with 8+ CP this coming year...in MASTERS. Is top 16 a solid accomplishment? Sure it is, but let's face it- the Senior division is nowhere near the level of competition in Masters. When you add in the Masters who top 16'd, it's going to be very hard to get an invite this coming year.
 
Well, if what you say is true, and Masters IS so much harder than Seniors, then a lot of them wouldn't get any more points at all, meaning it doesn't even matter to you. If they DO get a bunch of CP, the fact that they do that in their first year in Masters would make them very worthy of Worlds.
 
Dunkmaster said:
Sure it is, but let's face it- the Senior division is nowhere near the level of competition in Masters
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Why do people still think this? On what basis could you possibly know this, unless you played Worlds at Seniors, then played Worlds at Masters? I don't know anyone who aged up and immediately started having a harder time. In fact I know several players who aged up and immediately did better (see: David Cohen).
 
People just seem to be nervous about how the CP system will impact them. This is clearly a sign that P!P wants to see repeat players, so this seems like a way to make the age-up easier for players who've displayed some precedent of success.

It isn't that fun to have all of your accomplishments from last season's format be reset while friends from Worlds get a huge leg-up on you, but let's just wait and see. It's understandable to be worried, but don't begrudge a very small % of the population their success just because they're in Seniors.

RE Kayle: There are a lot of reasons why it's a given that Masters is harder than Seniors. Between financial capabilities, generally higher levels of cognitive thought (15+ brains are more developed than 11-14 brains), and much larger attendance, it's almost undeniable. Players like David Cohen are exceptions.
 
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Kayle said:
Why do people still think this? On what basis could you possibly know this, unless you played Worlds at Seniors, then played Worlds at Masters? I don't know anyone who aged up and immediately started having a harder time. In fact I know several players who aged up and immediately did better (see: David Cohen).
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i actually have to agree w/ this(to an extent) based on myself masters has been easier for me than seniors...
 
So because they were born the year they were they shouldnt be credited with an achievement they worked hard for and earned legitimatly because of an event(their birth) theh had no control of. If masters is really more difficult(debateable as the last 2 world champions were in their 1st or 2nd yesr in madters) then senior then the more difficult masters competition should overwhelm them and the CP boost from worlds wont be an issue.
 
Politoed, while it does reward a prize to compete in an age group you weren't a part of, I'd rather that Seniors/Juniors have the trip than not. What kind of message would Pokemon be sending if they said, "Oh, the guy sitting across the table from you gets a free trip because he's still 14, but you don't because you're 15. Have fun with masters, buddy."

Even if you force seniors top four players who age up to earn their invites all over again in Masters, they definitely deserve that trip (although quite frankly, having Seniors top four players automatically in the mix the next year for Masters makes the event more healthy and interesting).
 
Well, all you have to do is go out and beat them so they don't get more CP than you to qualify over you for Worlds and there, no big deal.

And honestly, I'll also make the case that Seniors, especially at a high level like Nationals top cut and Worlds, is very close to, if not just as difficult as Masters. Most of those players are close to being old enough to be in Masters anyways and their brain is just as developed so they play pretty well. They can netdeck and/or build decks just the same as any of the rest of us. Sure, they don't have the big name players that Masters does, but it does take a lot of skill to win.

The main difference is the amount of players in Masters as opposed to Seniors. That is rather obvious as the Masters age group encompasses a LOT more players than Seniors does as the Senior division only includes 4 years while Masters includes (realistically) about 40 years. This is both a positive and a negative. With less players, there's a statistically better chance to win. However, with more players, you have a bigger top cut. And anyone knows, once you make cut, anything can happen.

TL;DR - Seniors is hard too.

But don't get me started about Juniors. That's not even close.
 
Bigbowlr1037 said:
So because they were born the year they were they shouldnt be credited with an achievement they worked hard for and earned legitimatly because of an event(their birth) theh had no control of. If masters is really more difficult(debateable as the last 2 world champions were in their 1st or 2nd yesr in madters) then senior then the more difficult masters competition should overwhelm them and the CP boost from worlds wont be an issue.
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That's not what I said.


I think anyone who top cuts worlds in any division should get prizes and recognition.

I don't think they should get CP.

---------- Post added 08/14/2012 at 02:14 PM ----------
KazamBolt said:
TL;DR - Seniors is hard too.
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It really isn't. Back when I was in seniors I could pretty much count on cutting every event I went to, regardless of how much testing I had done. I can't say the same about masters.
 
That may very well depend on where you play. It's said time and time again that Oregon Seniors are vicious competition no matter what age division you call home.
 
FWIW, Masters meta is also much easier to predict, while you can never predict what garbage you might face in Seniors (even at Worlds...I officially believe some of these Nats invites need to be nixed in Sr/Jr internationally after my experience), which is an uglier, but true aspect of Seniors.
 
KazamBolt said:
Well, all you have to do is go out and beat them so they don't get more CP than you to qualify over you for Worlds and there, no big deal.

And honestly, I'll also make the case that Seniors, especially at a high level like Nationals top cut and Worlds, is very close to, if not just as difficult as Masters. Most of those players are close to being old enough to be in Masters anyways and their brain is just as developed so they play pretty well. They can netdeck and/or build decks just the same as any of the rest of us. Sure, they don't have the big name players that Masters does, but it does take a lot of skill to win.

The main difference is the amount of players in Masters as opposed to Seniors. That is rather obvious as the Masters age group encompasses a LOT more players than Seniors does as the Senior division only includes 4 years while Masters includes (realistically) about 40 years. This is both a positive and a negative. With less players, there's a statistically better chance to win. However, with more players, you have a bigger top cut. And anyone knows, once you make cut, anything can happen.

TL;DR - Seniors is hard too.

But don't get me started about Juniors. That's not even close.
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KazamBolt, while I may want to give Seniors all the credit they deserve, and recognize how monstrously ferocious some of them can be, it's factually wrong to say that an 11-14 year old brain is just as developed - completely and utterly wrong. That's not meant disrespectfully; it's just stating an honest-to-goodness fact. Part of "why" 15+ are kept from the same competitive division as 11-14 is due to this precise reason.

For this reason, there's a lot of soundness in the argument that age-up invites aren't deserved. It's an argument I disagree with on the grounds that it's an absolute accomplishment (i.e., if you top four Worlds, then you deserve some sort of invite), but I can respect the opposing side, which claims that 15+ is a uniquely qualified division relative to Seniors.
 
Cyrus said:
Politoed, while it does reward a prize to compete in an age group you weren't a part of, I'd rather that Seniors/Juniors have the trip than not. What kind of message would Pokemon be sending if they said, "Oh, the guy sitting across the table from you gets a free trip because he's still 14, but you don't because you're 15. Have fun with masters, buddy."

Even if you force seniors top four players who age up to earn their invites all over again in Masters, they definitely deserve that trip (although quite frankly, having Seniors top four players automatically in the mix the next year for Masters makes the event more healthy and interesting).
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They'd be sending the perfectly reasonable message that to compete in Worlds in a difficult age division, you need to prove yourself in said division, rather than getting a free ride because you could beat a bunch of eleven- and twelve-year-olds.

I'm not saying they shouldn't get anything. I think there ought to be some just compensation... Not sure if this is exactly what you're describing, but some system in which they get a trip but no invite would work. It shouldn't really be conditional upon them earning a CP invite, as that is too much to ask for. It should be "here, you get a trip to Worlds next year. If you earn an invite in Masters, you can play. If not, it's just a free vacation and a chance to compete in the LCQ."

Again, just my opinion.
 
^Its not a free ride by any means. They earned it, and it is NOT easy to get through 7 Rounds+T16+T8 in ANY environment, let alone Worlds.

P666, you actually ever play as a Senior?
 
I did, very briefly, and I had no idea what I was doing.

In my only Nationals as a Senior, I played Weavile/Flygon and top cutted. Whoo, tough.

Look, I'm not trying to discredit the lower age divisions as meaningless. But most seasoned Masters players would concur that accomplishments in those divisions are not comparable to accomplishments in Masters, and should not be rewarded as such. Kettles over here is a bit of a softy. It's sort of unfair, in my opinion, because there are a handful of really good players in Seniors, and it's got to suck that nobody will give them recognition even though they are performing as well as they possibly can. I'd love a system by which 15- could play in Masters events by choice, or stick to their own divisions. That would give them the chance to prove themselves and gain recognition, versus frequent prizes.
 
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