Serperior/Reuniclus - The speedy Zoroark version!!!

[Jahikoi]

Match-ups:


Donphan: 60-40 Favorable
The advantage of Donphan is its speed. 1 Energy for 60 Damage as a Stage 1. The advantage of Serperior is that Donphan can´t hit Serperior as hard as it has to. Damage Swap combined with Royal Heal easily takes away 60 damage. If Donphan can´t get the deck down before you have some Serperiors on the field, this deck is definitely in favor. In my opinion Donphan has to tech against Serperior.

Cinccino-Tech Deck: 55-45 Even to Slightly Favorable
Ciccino is (in parts) like Donphan, but it hits for 100 damage, which means it can OHKO Servines. Cinccino is also a bit faster than Donphan. But if Serperior gets the damage lock, it´s going to be hard for Cinccino as well.

Reshiboar: 40-60 Sightly Unfavorable to Unfavorable
This is the worst match-up for Serperiors. You´re still able to win, if you get a Zoroark ready in turn 2, but if you knock out one Reshiram, the next is ready to attack, because of Inferno Fandango. If there wasn´t Zoroark, you would lose this match-up in most of all cases. Your only hopes: 1. Your opponent doesn´t run such a speedy version of Reshiboar; 2. Your opponent has a bad start.

Speed Zekrom: 40-60 Slightly Unfavorable to Unfavorable
If you don´t get donked, there is a chance to beat this deck. You have to get out Zoroark with PlusPower and OHKO a Zekrom. Unlike Reshiboar, Zekrom can´t get the Energy back so easily, which is the advantage of Serperior against this match-up. Until your opponent gets the Energy back, you can set-up, while exerting pressure with Zoroark. However, Zekrom is the number one Donk Deck in the HGSS-on format and you might have lost the game before you even started.

Did you actually test with this deck, or did you pull these numbers out of a hat? Otherwise, good article and analysis; even though I don't think this deck will be viable.

 

[Rikko145]

I like the simplicity of the idea and of the article in general. However, the shining flaw I see is what happens when somethiing OHKO's your Serperior? If its HP is higher than the damage you can do with Foul Play, and it still OHKO's a Serperior, you don't really have an answer for it. That is, if your Zoroark is out when the attacking Serperior goes down. Since it's your only answer to heavy-hitting decks, you'll be up the creek without a paddle. I'm not trying to bash your deck or anything, because I think its quite marvelous! (Slower, but awesome all the same.) I was just wondering how a player with this deck should react.

 

[chrataxe]

Also saying this, you will NEED reversal in this deck or you're going to lose to any deck using the lunasol combo (you aren't healin' kid, there's going to be a lot of damage hangin' around).

Wow, that is a good point...


...you know...


...since Lunasol decks are SO popular right now.

Or,maybe he should just tech against things that are ACTUALLY being used right now...

Not bad article. But, as you stated in the beginning, the deck isn't without flaws, which you noted. And, I will also express some concern over your Reshiboar matchup, it is definitely pretty much an autoloss.

 

[Dark Shedinja]

If the format isn't changed to HGSS on, you could run Unown R. It helps speed you up, and can get rid of 40 damage in one go if the damage stacks up too fast.

This looks really fun to play. Nice article.

I don´t know how this deck would look in MD-on, but that sounds good.

Did you actually test with this deck, or did you pull these numbers out of a hat?

No, actually it was a basecap. [JK]

Yes, I tested these match-ups.

I think that Metapod is crucial in a deck that runs:

A) Grass Pokemon as one of its foundations
B) Runs nothing but Grass Energy

Since Reshiboar will OHKO you every time, and I just don't think Zoroark is a viable counter to Reshiram. You see, for example, if I'm playing Reshiram / Emboar and I'm setting up a hunky dory (which usually happens since it's much easier for me to setup since it's a basic and a Stage 2), and then you decide to get Zoroark out to counter me, there's a procedural problem here.

Most notably, you can't Rare Candy into Zoroark right away, so you're limited in your efficacy, so even if you have a Zorua + Zoroark in your hand, the moment you put down Zorua I'll know you're setting up a Zoroark counter. What's to stop me from, say, retreating my Reshiram and then promoting a weaker, less threatening Pokemon? You're running very thin Zoroark lines for it chain together to counter me effectively, especially if I decide to, for example, Collector > 3 Reshirams, meaning trading blows with me would not be a smart idea at all.

Of course, this is routed in previous experimental experience versus Zoroark counters people have used before, and partly a sense of game theory (though I tried to minimise it), and perhaps it works for you, but it doesn't seem like that effective of a counter to me. It seems an attentive person can easily circumvent the Zoroark counter the moment they realised you slap down a Zorua, so could you possibly enlighten me as to the exact area of issues in my line of logic?

The problem with Metapod is:

1. Caterpie: 30 HP. I also have Solosis in this deck, so thre would be four 30 HP Basics.

2. If your opponent runs PlusPower in his Reshiram build (maybe as a Zekrom tech), he would knock out your Serperiors, too. Then thre would be anything, that could get rid of Reshiram.

3. Metapod only helps against Reshiram variants.

Your points are very good. I gonna test those two in the next days extensively, but I don´t see why Metapod should be THAT better.

I like the simplicity of the idea and of the article in general. However, the shining flaw I see is what happens when somethiing OHKO's your Serperior? If its HP is higher than the damage you can do with Foul Play, and it still OHKO's a Serperior, you don't really have an answer for it. That is, if your Zoroark is out when the attacking Serperior goes down. Since it's your only answer to heavy-hitting decks, you'll be up the creek without a paddle. I'm not trying to bash your deck or anything, because I think its quite marvelous! (Slower, but awesome all the same.) I was just wondering how a player with this deck should react.

That´s interesting. Do you mean something like Tyranitar Prime? It uses Megaton Tail + Special Dark to OHKO Serperior and has 160 HP, which means that Zoroark can´t OHKO it, even not with 3 PlusPowers. Just as an example. For me this looks like a Stage 2 or a Legend. I´d try to set-up faster than they can and if it´s too late, I´d do all what I can to knock this Pokémon out. That might not seem great, but these are the only things you can do.

 

[Amt]

The bottom stats are all the same.

Free retreat for the non-Ability one, IIRC.

 

[Rikko145]

I don´t know how this deck would look in MD-on, but that sounds good.




No, actually it was a basecap. [JK]

Yes, I tested these match-ups.




The problem with Metapod is:

1. Caterpie: 30 HP. I also have Solosis in this deck, so thre would be four 30 HP Basics.

2. If your opponent runs PlusPower in his Reshiram build (maybe as a Zekrom tech), he would knock out your Serperiors, too. Then thre would be anything, that could get rid of Reshiram.

3. Metapod only helps against Reshiram variants.

Your points are very good. I gonna test those two in the next days extensively, but I don´t see why Metapod should be THAT better.




That´s interesting. Do you mean something like Tyranitar Prime? It uses Megaton Tail + Special Dark to OHKO Serperior and has 160 HP, which means that Zoroark can´t OHKO it, even not with 3 PlusPowers. Just as an example. For me this looks like a Stage 2 or a Legend. I´d try to set-up faster than they can and if it´s too late, I´d do all what I can to knock this Pokémon out. That might not seem great, but these are the only things you can do.

Yeah, like Tyranitar Prime, ERL (most Legends, really), Reshiram, etc.

 

[Cartoon_Eric]

I just want to make sure about something. With Zoroark's Foul Play move you can copy the move of your opponent's Defending Pokemon, but does that mean you also copy the EFFECTS of the move. Like if you do an attack that requires you to discard certain energy cards do you still have to do that? I'm just wondering.

 

[DarthPika]

Are you going to change your Reshiboar matchup to be more accurate, or are we going to continue misleading new players believe that an autoloss is actually winable?

 

[zaeden906]

Actually i have my own list of this deck,i have played 4 competitive reshiboar 2 being typhlosion reshiram and i have yet to lose, but i use cleffa and 3 stage 2's i did have a set-up problem against one reshiboar deck who had reshiram emboar and ninetales out T2 ready to roll, but was able to draw into twins and kept cleffa asleep long enough (2 turns) and drew into rare candies so i believe you are accurate but i do not play zoroark.

Just realized no metapod, NVM i do believe your list is an autoloss to reshi but there is still that 5% of there hand being bad ?

 

[Dark Shedinja]

Are you going to change your Reshiboar matchup to be more accurate, or are we going to continue misleading new players believe that an autoloss is actually winable?

I´m going to do that. But in the moment I´m busy with testing the Reshiboar match-up (Speed and Lanturn) so that I can give you a detailed analysis on it. Maybe I´ll be ready tomorrow. If not, it´s gonna be edited on friday. I hope one more day can be acceptable for all those new players.



I have to correct me: Update on saturday or sunday. Sorry for the miscalculation!

 

[Happiny13]

The lack of a starter scares me. There is way too much to set up in here without one. Also, there really isn't much of a reason not to play 4 Royal Heal. It can use Rescue, or DCE. 2-2 Zoroak and no DCE is extremely pointless. Play 4-4 Zoroak and 4 DCE and I will believe that Reshiboar and Zekrom is a 30-60 matchup in their favor.

 

[DarthPika]

^ I believe you mean 30-70.

 

[Ninja]

I really want to see a Yanmega Matchup... Can you get these things out being Judged almost every 2 turns?

 

[Dark Shedinja]

OK. Sorry for the huge delay but finally the edits are up. Hope you like them!

 

[OllieK]

have you considered Defender? It's the closest thing we have to expert belt.

It prevents Zekrom and Reshiram from killing your serperior through pluspowers, assuming you have teched in metapod

 

[Dark Shedinja]

have you considered Defender? It's the closest thing we have to expert belt.

It prevents Zekrom and Reshiram from killing your serperior through pluspowers, assuming you have teched in metapod

The reasons why I don´t use Defender are:


1. I don´t know what to exclude. I need PlusPower to 2HKO Rehirams and Zekroms.

2. You have to discard Defenders at the end of the next turn, so your opponent won´t drop his PlusPower when he sees the defender.


It´s a nice idea, but I think that I prefer PlusPower over Defender.

 

[Blooper785]

No Cleffa?this deck really needs them cus its setting up multiple stage 2s
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[ShadowGuard]

Well, first I think the "speedy" is a little misleading since it's actually not very speedy to need two Stage 2s and then have a damage output of 60 per turn.

So we know the deck is a) slow and does b) very low damage. However it's advantage is that it can heal almost completely every turn. But you have only 130 HP and many decks in the format don't have a problem with doing that much damage at one shot. So to take benefit of the deck's abilities, Defender is not just an option, it's very important.

I wouldn't play PlusPower and Junk Arm but rather Roserade and four Rainbow Energy. I tested a Serperior deck for the Professor Cup (without Reuniclus of course) and 2-2 Roserade was what made it good (but 1-1 should still work in this case). However I dropped the idea because even with Metapod and Defenders the Reshiram matchup was too difficult.

After attaching an energy to Roserade you can move it to your backup attacker with Serperior. Confusion also prevents you from have an absolute autoloss against any Magnezone deck which you have with your current list.

Without Defenders and Roserade, you have almost no chance against three of the most played decks in format - Reshiram, Zekrom and Magneboar, so imo something has to be done about this.

And pls change the list to 4 Royal Heal Serperiors like Bullados said, otherwise you can't take it serious...

 

[RevYolution]

just as a thought have you thought of using Ursaring prime? with its ability and double colorless energies it could do some serious damage quickly. it does however fall short against donphan b/c of weakness.

 

[Dark Shedinja]

just as a thought have you thought of using Ursaring prime? with its ability and double colorless energies it could do some serious damage quickly. it does however fall short against donphan b/c of weakness.

I would rather use Donphan Prime. There are many good Pokémon out there who have :fighting: weakness.
For example: Magnezone Prime, Zekrom, Cinccino, Ursaring Prime, T-Tar Prime, Zoroark.