Shiny Card Sleeves

[Water Pokemon Master]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to put this, I am not sure where it should go.

Today I played my friend Mike (Porygon) for a few matches, and then we decided to switch decks just for fun. When I got his deck, which was covered by shiny green sleeves that I have seen many people use at tournies before, I noticed something. When I began to lay my prizes down, I could perfectly see the reflection of the card I was drawing on the back of the top card of the deck. So, as I layed out my prizes and could tell what every card was without even squinting, I showed Porygon, and we did some testing. It turns out, a player does not have to look hard at all and can even glance at the cards with these sleeves, knowing what they are. For someone with horrible vision, I could even make out every card and see what they were as I drew them, without having to do anything out of the ordinary, thus making it very easy to cheat without being noticed. Even when the sun went behind clouds and it turned dark (since we were playing outside), you could still see the reflection of the cards.

So, I think cards with shiny sleeves should be banned from being used. They are kind of like holo sleeves, and when you put another card next to them, you can see their reflection as if they were a mirror. What do you guys think?

 

[jesschow12]

i had already discovered this problem a long time ago,the only solution is make sure your Hand is a few distance away from your prizes

 

[kiyuto-faze 1]

I used a type of sleeves you just described, they're green foil sleeves that when you move them you can make them look like green lines moving back and forth on the sleeve.

Anyways I asked a professor at a tourny and he showed me this ( I hadn't noticed that I could see the reflection ). Anyways he said I could use them but anyways it depends on the sleeves and how they reflect. Such as the sleeves I used I would acctually have to position the cards over each other so I could see a faint refelection so cheating would be obvious to spot. Anyways I would say it depends on the sleeves you use, if they reflect well then you shouldn't use them, if you can see a reflection but have to position the card ( and just so everyone knows the professor who inspected them had to position the card too ) like I would have had to to see it then use them.

Heh so basicly how high is your honor code, and if you can't decide then just ask a judge.

 

[SD PokeMom]

They're already not legal in tourney play:

15.3. Card Sleeves

Card sleeves are allowed to be used at Pokémon Organized Play events, provided that they meet the following requirements:
• All of the sleeves on a deck must be the same color, condition, size, and texture
• The fronts of the sleeves are clear, clean, and free of designs, holograms, and emblems that may obscure card information
• The sleeves completely cover the entire card, leaving no portion sticking out of the open end
• The sleeves are not reflective enough to be used to determine the faces of cards that remain in the deck.

Pokémon Organized Play will allow the use of newly introduced “art-backed” card sleeves on a probationary basis. This policy is subject to reversal in the event that POP finds that these card sleeves are a significant disruption at events.​

​

'mom​

 

[Water Pokemon Master]

For Porygon's sleeves, we just had to rise them over the deck, then draw them. If you know card pictures well, you will know what the card is. I was able to tell what a card was just as fast as I normally drew them.

EDIT: Why is it that everytime I go to a tourny, I always see people using those sleeves? Why aren't people who are in charge inforcing that rule?

 

[SD PokeMom]

Why is it that everytime I go to a tourny, I always see people using those sleeves? Why aren't people who are in charge inforcing that rule?

Conversely, why are players/professors...who _should_ be familiar with the tourney/floor rules...using them in tournaments?

'mom

 

[kiyuto-faze 1]

Well I know that professors here in Oregon sometimes use these foil sleeves, I guess its because of the high honor code pokemon has that professors ( at least here ) are lenient about this ruling and beleive that unless the problem happens here that there is no problem.

Course I could be wrong and it may just be that, and no offense to anyone but that some judges may be too lazy to do anything about it. I mean it wouldn't be the first case of judge lazyness.

 

[Tabby]

I've got some red and gold foil sleeves. I can't see anything though lol. =\

I switched to black sleeves anyway so I guess it really doesn't matter for me. I only did that because I was pretty sure I wasn't going to be able to use red and gold. As I didn't have enough of either for a complete pokemon deck. (I was using 30 gold and 30 red mixed together)

And what are "art-backed" cards sleeves? I've never seen those.

Tabz

 

[Water Pokemon Master]

Conversely, why are players/professors...who _should_ be familiar with the tourney/floor rules...using them in tournaments?

'mom

When I said "in-charge," I meant the judges, but yeah, the players should also know the rules too I guess.

 

[Lunamew]

I'm confused. How can you see the faces of cards on the back? Wouldn't you simply see the Back of the card? -_-

 

[Orange Soda]

The backs of some sleeves are reflective, so if you hold a card face down over another face down card, the picture of the upper one is visible on the back of the lower one.

 

[Lunamew]

Oh... Okay, I understand now. Thanks.

 

[lookinforwailordex]

i think those sleeves should get banned. They are clearly sleeves that people can cheat with. If u can clearly see the prizes that u are placing down then u need to change your sleeves becuase u are only hurting yourself by using those sleeves.

 

[Hot_Carl]

I have holo sleeves and i just realized i could see the card if i did that. (Do you want me banned mudflaps?)

Well, i didn't notice it until now and i never draw or place prizes in any way i could see. I pick up my deck and place it all down immediatly.

 

[TrAcY cHo]

And what are "art-backed" cards sleeves? I've never seen those.

Tabz, "art-backed" card sleeves are sleeves with something like a dragon or a skull on the back of it.
I probably have the sleeves Water Pokemon Master was talking about (although I no longer use them) and I too noticed this reflecting effect... But when I used it, I never tried to reflect my cards, and I had no time to without looking supicious.

Not only do I have horrible vision, but quick hands that just pick the card up or drop the card down... Also I never had any urge to cheat with them.

I no longer see those because "art-back" sleeves have replaced them. As for how to fix them... I suggest banning them, or people may want to cheat *shrug*

~~~Tracy Cho~~~

 

[ukpokemonpro]

It all comes down to a couple of simple thoughts .. are you a cheat? Will you do anything you can to win a game including cheating, intimidation and gamesmanship?

If you will then you will try to abuse the shiney card sleeves.. if you don't cheat, wouldn't "kill your granny" for a win you won't.

Personally I like the variety of sleeves on offer now and I find it terribly sad that the state of the game is such that peoples pursuit of prizes, shiney stuff and a win leads them to forget the "spirit of the game"

At States and Nationals I think we probably need to enforce a no shiney sleeve policy and the players need to know well in advance..

 

[TrAcY cHo]

It all comes down to a couple of simple thoughts .. are you a cheat? Will you do anything you can to win a game including cheating, intimidation and gamesmanship?

Of course in these simple thoughts asked, even if 100 players say no I am not a cheater, 1 player saying yes I will win at any cost is all we need to ban it *sigh* Some will do anything to win... They might enforce the sleeve rule at Nats, but at States... This is hard to say. I didn't see any of those sleeves at my states, so I don't know if they will enforce the rule...

~~~Tracy Cho~~~

 

[sneaselsrevenge]

i think those sleeves should get banned. They are clearly sleeves that people can cheat with. If u can clearly see the prizes that u are placing down then u need to change your sleeves becuase u are only hurting yourself by using those sleeves.

Did you not read 'mom's post? They are banned. I don't know about your area, but in Florida premiere tourneys, this is strictly enforced.