Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Shuffling an Opponents Deck??

M

MrGinerik

New Member
I was visiting a different league the other weekend and observed the start of a game that peaked my interest and wanted your thoughts on this.

The two players shuffled their respective decks, offered the deck to their opponent to cut and one of the kids chose to shuffle his opponents deck, while shuffling he was glancing at the deck he was going to play against. He shuffled just like his opponent, cutting the deck and sliding them together repeatedly.

Seeing this I realized how much he might benefit from seeing a few of his opponents cards during the shuffle, for example, can he get a turn 1/2 donk, what is he going up against, weaknesses, resistances, stuff like that. Then he would be able to make adjustments to his play with this information.

Compendium Shuffling Rules

What are your thoughts on this?
 
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Well, first, here are the PUI Tournament rules regarding Shuffling.

7. Shuffling
Each player’s deck is expected to be fully randomized at the start of each game and during the game as card effects require. In order to achieve randomness, players are allowed to riffle, pile, or otherwise shuffle their decks until they are satisfied that the deck is random. Randomization must be done in the presence of the player’s opponent. Care should be taken to assure that the cards in the deck are not harmed or revealed during the shuffle.

After the shuffle, the deck must be offered to the player’s opponent to be cut once. Cutting the deck consists of creating two separate stacks of cards by removing a portion of the top of the deck, and then placing it under the remaining portion. Players should take care to not reveal any of their opponent’s cards while cutting. Cutting into more than two stacks is considered a shuffle.

Instead of cutting, the opponent may choose to shuffle the deck. This shuffle should be brief, and when it concludes, the deck’s owner is allowed to cut the deck once as described above. Players should take care when shuffling an opponent’s deck, as the cards in that deck are not the shuffling player’s property. At this point, the deck should be sufficiently randomized to both players’ satisfaction.

If either player still does not feel that either deck is sufficiently randomized, or if a player wishes to not offer his or her deck to an opponent for randomization, a judge must be called over to shuffle the deck(s) in question. No player is allowed to shuffle or cut after the judge’s shuffle.
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You notice that it says that care should be taken to insure that cards from either deck are not reveled.

In a League setting or an event this is a bad thing to have happen. At League, being a visitor, I would let the League Leader know about the issue so the offending player can be instructed on proper shuffling techniques.

At an event, that would be handled by the Judges, based on the Penalty Guidelines.
 
If you're a person inclined to use your right to shuffle, then take every precaution to A) make sure that cards aren't revealed, and B) make sure that if they are revealed, then you do not see the cards.

The knowledge of your opponent's deck list is huge, so if you're going to shuffle, then you might want to look away as you do so.
 
In an event, I would be looking at this level myself:

PUI 2008/2009 Penalty Guidelines said:
7.6.4. Cheating
Cheating is the highest form of Unsporting Conduct that a player can display. Players who intentionally commit infractions are looking to gain an unfair advantage over other players at the event. The Head Judge should carefully consider whether an infraction was intentional or not before applying this penalty. If the Head Judge feels that an infraction was unintentional, this penalty should not be applied.

Examples of Unsporting Conduct: Cheating include:
• Drawing extra cards.
• Taking cards from the discard pile and adding them to your hand or deck.
• Offering some form of compensation to an opponent for a concession.
• Altering match results after the conclusion of the match.
• Playing with marked cards.
• Lying to event staff.
• Modification of the Card-Dex to misrepresent official card text.
• Arbitrarily adjusting the Special Conditions or damage counters put on any Pokémon in
play.
• Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into making misplays.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Disqualification
Tier 2: Disqualification
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Pretty clear in that result.
 
EeveeLover said:
Well, first, here are the PUI Tournament rules regarding Shuffling.



You notice that it says that care should be taken to insure that cards from either deck are not reveled.

In a League setting or an event this is a bad thing to have happen. At League, being a visitor, I would let the League Leader know about the issue so the offending player can be instructed on proper shuffling techniques.

At an event, that would be handled by the Judges, based on the Penalty Guidelines.
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We did notify the league leader, It was just something we had never seen or really thought about until then. Thanks for the feed back
 
when you shuffle your opponent's cards you don't see the cards.
ie there should be no peeking, the only time you see your opponent's cards pre game is in a mulligan.


However there are instances where you know what your opponent is playing anyway, either they are a friend or you -happened- to sit by them last round.
 
I really wish there was a rule that only a judge could shuffle an opponents deck if needed. It's actually fairly hard to do a good shuffle with out seeing a few of the cards. Not only that but its REALLY easy for someone to peek if they wanted.
 
DarthPika said:
I really wish there was a rule that only a judge could shuffle an opponents deck if needed. It's actually fairly hard to do a good shuffle with out seeing a few of the cards. Not only that but its REALLY easy for someone to peek if they wanted.
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There are players who you WANT to shuffle against during game setup. Sad but true.
Then again, I only pileshuffle so I personally have no way of seeing any cards of my opponents deck. Thats just me though, im not sure how one could shuffle seeing the other players cards in a non-suspicious way.
 
DarthPika said:
I really wish there was a rule that only a judge could shuffle an opponents deck if needed. It's actually fairly hard to do a good shuffle with out seeing a few of the cards. Not only that but its REALLY easy for someone to peek if they wanted.
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I shuffle my opponents deck almost before everygame, and a lot of times they do the same after I initially go for it. HOWEVER, I wouldn't say I shuffle it, moreso I just 'randomize' it.

I hold the cards perfectly horizontal and just lightly push the cards into my other hand randomly five times. (If that makes sense) Then I set it down for them to cut. If I decide to do the shuffle before, I look them in the face while I do it, or stare off behind them so I know.


Sorry to bum you out. :| (Not trying to be sarcastic in my post in the least bit, by the way)
 
I've had it ruled several times in games I've played that you could shuffle your opponent's deck, but then they get the final cut.
 
Scipio said:
There are players who you WANT to shuffle against during game setup. Sad but true.
Then again, I only pileshuffle so I personally have no way of seeing any cards of my opponents deck. Thats just me though, im not sure how one could shuffle seeing the other players cards in a non-suspicious way.
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I love shuffling. There are some people I know who cheat so much, they ALWAYS get a good setup no matter where you cut.

It's hard because usually to shuffle, unless you bridge cut (which your opponent might not like as it tends to bend the cards), you flip them into 2 different stacks, with one side facing you, usually the bottom. The best solution is probably to just close your eyes.
 
Bolt said:
I've had it ruled several times in games I've played that you could shuffle your opponent's deck, but then they get the final cut.
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The reason that it was ruled that way, is because that is what it states in the rules.

PUI Tournament Rules - Section 7. Shuffling said:
Instead of cutting, the opponent may choose to shuffle the deck. This shuffle should be brief, and when it concludes, the deck’s owner is allowed to cut the deck once as described above.
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If I ever wanted to shuffle my opponents deck, which I almost never do, I would do one of the follow to try to respect my opponent wishes and deck.

1. Can you please shuffle your deck some more, I don't feel you shuffle enough.
2. If they say no, I would say, okay, then I am going to shuffle your deck, if you don't feel comfortable we can have a judge shuffle instead of me.
3. If they say okay, I would shuffle there deck "gently" trying really hard not to reveal any cards to myself.

If you ever worried about being called out when you try to shuffle your opponents deck, just ask a judge to do it instead, it is a lot easier that way. You can't go wrong if you do the above as your opponent can't really say you didn't give them options, and it protects yourself from being called a cheater or what not if your opponent thinks you're trying to get an advantage.

Drew
 
The main problem I have with someone else shuffling my deck is that if they shuffle badly, they can actually "undo" my shuffle causing there to be nasty clumps of cards. Yes, I've had that happen.
 
^yeah, last year a little kid shuffled my deck so all the cards were facing opposite directions... i sometimes see cards from my opponents deck, but usually it's an accident, unless it's with friends, than i joke around.
 
DarthPika said:
The main problem I have with someone else shuffling my deck is that if they shuffle badly, they can actually "undo" my shuffle causing there to be nasty clumps of cards. Yes, I've had that happen.
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"undo" your "shuffle"? :confused: randomized is randomized, is it not?

...or are you saying you weave your deck, and don't like it undone?

'mom
 
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I agree. I don't understand the undo thing, if it is completely randomized then wouldn't it be random whether or not the cards are clumped? I mean, it's possible for your deck to be randomized to where its in exact order, even. There's no way to undo a shuffle.
 
SD PokéMom said:
"undo" your "shuffle"? :confused: randomized is randomized, is it not?

...or are you saying you weave your deck, and don't like it undone?

'mom
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I think he means that if his deck is completely randomized, you get sequences like this, using a Ramparados as example:

Ramparados-Broken TimeSpace-Uxie-Skull Fossil-Roseanne-Energy-Ramparados-Energy-Energy-Rare Candy-Unown R-Uxie-Pokedex-Broken TimeSpace

And that a shuffle somehow makes it end up like

Ramparados-Ramparados-Energy-Energy-Energy-Uxie-Uxie-Broken TimeSpace-Broken TimeSpace-etc

That happens.
 
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