Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Sick of People Borrowing Decks Instead Of Making There Own

Strike and Mr Meches both make the best points. On one hand, if you have never played a deck before, there is a little skill involved. However, just because you get all of the cards necessary to play with doesn't mean you can't TELL them WHAT you need to play with, according to YOUR own style. Unless it is just an absolute emergency.

Like Mr. Meches says, you can't expect most 10- kids to build their decks all on their own. Although my favorites in this division (Sam's now 11...shucks =P) build their own decks and playtest them extensively, they are still wanting and/or needing a little help from outside influences.

And yes, to add onto his statement, people 11+ should feel bad for not at least tweaking decks handed to them. You have to edit according to your playing style. You may get flagged for what you think works, but that's fine. Usually, there's a clear line between deceptively bad (aka good) tech, and just plain crap. There is a clear line between playing an archetype, and playing a netdeck. Before I just got tired of it, I played Blaziken, and played it well. I didn't just grab some crappy list off the internet. I tirelessly playtested and revamped it, over and over and over again. It is the best list I would ever want, although not the best list most would. Hey, half the Niniken players out there say 2 bex is mad. My results don't lie, and I play 2 =P

All of that long mumbling recapped:

*10 and under should get a little bit of a handicap when it comes to deckbuilding, although not much. If you don't train your kids to build their own decks, then they will never be at a world class level. The good players in this age bracket are either taught this rule, or learn it themselves.

*Same thing applies for 11+, only a lot more strictly. If you never build your own deck, you will barely win. Any 15+ player with the resources who just outright netdecks is an embarrassment.
 
Three things are necessary to do well at the top tournaments.

1. Skill...skill....skill....

2. A competitive deck....

3. A little luck....or least no real bad luck

Regarding skill...we have natural abilities and we improve on our abilities
with practice. No mystery.....

Luck...some days its with us...some days not. But over time it evens out.

A competitive deck.....some people want to play well but don't have the cards,
and or the money to buy them. Many a time I've loaned top notch decks
to new players as well as capable players who just don't have the cards.
Some people aren't good at making decks or are inexperienced. So they
seek help. Isn't that part of the purpose of pokegym, pojo and friends etc.
Should we refuse help to those who want to become better?

If you want a game of pure skill....then only play in booster draft type tournaments
where deck building skills and playing skills both come heavily into focus.

My opinion is "let he who has never sought help in building a better deck
cast the first pokemon"......
 
Ez1 said:
Three things are necessary to do well at the top tournaments.

1. Skill...skill....skill....

2. A competitive deck....

3. A little luck....or least no real bad luck

Regarding skill...we have natural abilities and we improve on our abilities
with practice. No mystery.....

Luck...some days its with us...some days not. But over time it evens out.

A competitive deck.....some people want to play well but don't have the cards,
and or the money to buy them. Many a time I've loaned top notch decks
to new players as well as capable players who just don't have the cards.
Some people aren't good at making decks or are inexperienced. So they
seek help. Isn't that part of the purpose of pokegym, pojo and friends etc.
Should we refuse help to those who want to become better?

If you want a game of pure skill....then only play in booster draft type tournaments
where deck building skills and playing skills both come heavily into focus.

My opinion is "let he who has never sought help in building a better deck
cast the first pokemon"......
Click to expand...
If you are not buying cards to play then you should not be playing! It is not fair to all those people who buy packs to make or improve there deck to lose to someone like Raikou who owns 0 cards past Skyridge. Also you should not be ashamed since you are doing little to keep the card game alive since teh best thing you can probably do for Pokemon to show your support is buy there products. You also say then only play in booster drafts, well let me see are there any major tournaments like cities, states, and nationals, and worlds where drafting was the main event but as we know there aren't very mainy major tournament drafts at least not here in Nevada where there is really not much of any kind of tournaments to begin with.
 
Dragonstar, how do you think it's not fair that someone who made their own deck from their own cards lose to someone who really just did the exact opposite? Is that really an excuse for a loss? Also, another thing is that one shouldn't be playing if you're not buying the cards. Buying cards is not the only way of showing support. What abotu popularity? What about actually working with others and actually keeping tournaments alive by playing in them? What about even playing the game in the first place? Is that not showing support somehow? Pokemon isn't just about the cards, it's about the game, and the players that give it their all.

Oh yeah, another thing, I remember a nice little tournament where the format was rochester draft. It took a good 10 hours out of my life, but I got a trip out of it. Chris Fulop and Alex Brosseau also did booster drafts and got trips. Yeah, the Stadium Challenges from last year were in fact rochester drafts for the professors competing for that one trip to worlds.

And one final thing, like raikou I don't really own any cards past skyridge. THe last tournament I played in I freely borrowed most of the cards I used and I thank them for that as well.
 
Let me see if I got this right....

you shouldn't be allowed to play unless you buy lots of packs?????

shouldn't the tournament winner then be the one who bought the
most packs??????

have you thought about a possible career as a pokemon sales rep.....
 
What really is the differance between borrowing someones deck and building a deck from an archtype/net deck? other than the idea that a borrowed deck most likely wont fit your style of play? if you're going to complain about borrowed decks, you might want to considder complaining about archtypes and common rogues too (assuming you yourself play a completly origional deck).

People helped my daughter build her deck and helped her with cards when she started many moons ago, we stayed because of this, and now, I do the same too.

I make a point to bring cards and extra decks to tournaments to help people that for whatever reason need the help, and as a result, I've been able to make sure that a few more people have a good experiance with organized pokemon events, and show up for more.

-CattDreams
 
Well I some times loan single cards to the people that I know I will get them back from. Is this bad too just because I don't want to trade a card and some one else has come up with a use for it? As far as copying a deck off the net - trying to come up with a new combo is what I like best about the game, however some people don't have the time or ability to do this, and in the end there are only so many different possible combos and only a percentage of those will rise to the top. To some it up - If everything was rogue there'd be no rogue and metta gaming (the best part of the game, next to being with and meeting new friends) would be impossible.
 
MrMeches said:
*Reaches under computer desk for Soap Box.. AH! There it is*

If you are 10- and can make your OWN Deck and Win a Tourny.. I will shake your Hand at World's.. Every Parent Here Encourages Their 10- to make a Deck or get a Deck Idea.. but as a Parent, (I could be Wrong Here) you always make suggestions or Tweaks for your 10- to Help them Do well. Conceptually the Deck Idea may be "Our" childs, but the Play testing and assistance is totally a Parent's! What parent (that Plays) isn't going to test the deck themselves and make "Suggestions" to the Child? Agreeably, some Kids have natural Ability and a good Deck Knowledge to build their own deck.. but C'Mon, 10- doing it "ALL" Themselves... Bad Parent to fib like that...

*Steps down off Box and slides it back in place for later usage.. waits for Intelligent Rebuttal*
Click to expand...



Then we must be one of the exceptions here.... :)

Austin builds his own deck. We can't build decks worthy of being played. LOL. We play for fun, and lack the seriousness of most people in the game. We build our decks on the fly -- usually in the car -- on the way to an event. We just learned to play the game -- mostly because we got tired of waiting for Austin at tournaments. We've read and learned the rules, but we have yet to learn to build a great deck!

So, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, Mr. Meches, ;) but Austin does build his own decks. I'm also sorry to report that we are of no help to Austin when it comes to building decks. In fact, we look to him to help us. The only thing we do for him is make sure he gets to tournaments he wants to play in, and has everything he needs for them.

Now, I must add, about this deck building stuff: I am getting better -- reading this board and all, so I expect that very soon, I may be able to offer some pretty sage advice on deck building. LOL

But for now, here's a question: Is it okay if Austin builds a deck for us (his parents) -- especially since we buy the cards? :D
 
Oh and one more thing. These people who are borrowing decks are paying the entrance fee to the tourney are they not. I don't think we should turn people away from the game for a silly reason like this. We need to attract people not turn them away.
 
Team Cook said:
But for now, here's a question: Is it okay if Austin builds a deck for us (his parents) -- especially since we buy the cards? :D
Click to expand...
At least you guys are supporting the company unlike some people (like Raikou) who don't even own any of the cards past Skyridge, and Raikou if you don't even want to help keep the game alive by doing the simplest thing of buying a few packs then you shouldn't even be playing.
 
I think its perfectly ok to borrow anothers deck. In fact one of my close friends happens to do so almost on a regular basis. Hes just not in the position to be able to afford the cards at this time.
He is one of the better players ive had the opertunity to play agianst. And when it comes down to it the better PLAYER will win. And lets say a player borrows a deck, plays in a tourny, does well and has fun. That player then goes home and tells 5 friends what a good time he had and they all start playing and buying cards. We need to encourage attendance not discourage.
 
AXE said:
I think its perfectly ok to borrow anothers deck. In fact one of my close friends happens to do so almost on a regular basis. Hes just not in the position to be able to afford the cards at this time.
He is one of the better players ive had the opertunity to play agianst. And when it comes down to it the better PLAYER will win. And lets say a player borrows a deck, plays in a tourny, does well and has fun. That player then goes home and tells 5 friends what a good time he had and they all start playing and buying cards. We need to encourage attendance not discourage.
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Like i've said before people who can't afford to buy aren't helping to keep the game alive since they are not buying the companies product and as for someone telling others what a good time they had, the players who actually SOPPORT the company by buying there product can do the same thing.
 
I'm not sure what problem is trying to be solved here.

Are you trying to (a) have fewer people playing the game (because they can't borrow decks to play in tournaments) or (b) helping Nintendo sell more cards?

I don't really see an issue with either.

One more thing... "people like Raikou" are very good players. Not buying the cards doesn't change that.
 
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Let's get one thing straight....I haven';t played since Gencon....I don't play anymore. I still support the game by giving my thoughts once a month on these boards and I still interact with some of the players to give them support and such. So yea, like you're one to tell me I shouldn't be playing.

Dragonstar, stop ignoring important questions being asked by some folk on here. You're trying to shift this post from borrowing decks to buying packs.

Borrowing decks...
-does not lessen skill, perhaps only shows it by knowing how to play multiple decks and winning.
-is fair, especially if one does not have all the necessary cards (they're still supporting $$ wise...ill explain later)
-is different from netdecking and using variations of good archetypes

Using good decks in tournaments...
-is almost a must when a big trip is on the line (don't tell me you don't want to win it)
-uppens the chances of winning big trips
-may seem cheap, but if you can't beat them with crap, you join them
-happens in every card game and is basically the standard among competive players
-requires SOME players to support the game to buy packs to get cards

Buying packs...
-is not necessary when you win tournaments (such as prereleases) which give you cards
-doesn't happen always and is made up for in entrance fee's and such in tournaments
-gives nintendo so much money...one pack of cards is probably worth $.25 to make...big profit
-is not a rule to be allowed to play in a card game
-in large numbers doesn't make you the 1337est player in the game (skill wise)
-is more or less a waste of time for good players who win boxes and trade whats in the boxes for good cards
-is still done sometimes by good players and by less than good players

So really...just because you buy packs doesn't make you good and it doesnt make a player who doesn't buy any, any less of a player than he/she is. Otherwise half the players in the game better find something new to do. Borrowing decks is done, it requires skill to pull off wins, and it doesn't matter what deck you use, you just need some more skill with different decks. The game is still supported through various ways, some involving money like tournaments and buying packs, and some in time invested as judges, pokegym, and many other things. (let's not even get started in how much the judges and professors invest into this game to make tourneys successful)

and remember...I don't play anymore so don't bust on me for not buying packs...and if I wanna play again, you're not gonna make me buy a single pack...unless its a prerelease =/

oh and thank you dave, you're quite the player yourself ;)

oh and one thing i just thought of....you see how many trips nintendo gave away this year with all the borrowing going on...it definitely didn't hurt the game. THey would have never gave that many away if they were not being supported, so I honestly think its time for you to stop preaching how people spend their money and drop this "moral issue" you have with borrowing and not being allowed to play.
 
I haven't purchased a booster pack for myself since EX Ruby and Sapphire... I would say I've only bought under ten booster packs since last summer for friends. Does that infer that I'm not supporting the game? No.
-Phil
 
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It sounds to me like someone is just jealous of how well other people play and that they win more then him. If you go by how many packs someone buys to how well they play then i should be one of the best. I buy at least 6 boxes of each set when they come out. But let me tell you, I stink at playing pokemon. So why do i still play? Because i enjoy playing and meeting the people that play. If the time ever come that i quit enjoying it then i will stop playing and get rid of all my cards. I guess some people are not happy unless they are whining about something.
 
evil psyduck said:
It sounds to me like someone is just jealous of how well other people play and that they win more then him. If you go by how many packs someone buys to how well they play then i should be one of the best. I buy at least 6 boxes of each set when they come out. But let me tell you, I stink at playing pokemon. So why do i still play? Because i enjoy playing and meeting the people that play. If the time ever come that i quit enjoying it then i will stop playing and get rid of all my cards. I guess some people are not happy unless they are whining about something.
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Excuse me do I know you, I don't think so, so why should I care what you think of me. You don't know anything about me. I do appreciate the fact that you are a customer of the game and can make up some of the sales for those people that don't purchase packs but then still want to play, or maybe there just smarter then we are for not wasting money on a game that last I checked wasn't even in the top 10 CCGs.
 
ok n00bs, i think that people that complain about borrowers of decks are n00bish. you probably lost to someone pathetic who had to borrow his deck. and the card-buying from nintendo arguements are n00b. more players in tournament= more money for nintendo, if they had to borrow decks then obviously they wouldnt buy the cards, or someone bought the cards for them. i want people to borrow decks, because it means that i can beat them easier. if you build your own decks, they are of course much tougher, unless you are a n00b. all the 1337 people build thier own decks for that reason, and i cant imagine a n00b winning with a borrowed deck against someone 1337 ( unless you are michael stevens and your opponent gets a game loss, his most important cards taken out of his deck, and a bad start).
 
And all I heard from Dragonstar was, "blahblahblah, blahblahblah!" =P

If your excuse is that they're not buying their own cards, then w/e dude. The only reason I like knowing where the cash is going is 'cause a lil of each pack goes to Dave Schwimmer's paycheck ;x
 
MrMeches said:
*Reaches under computer desk for Soap Box.. AH! There it is*

If you are 10- and can make your OWN Deck and Win a Tourny.. I will shake your Hand at World's.. Every Parent Here Encourages Their 10- to make a Deck or get a Deck Idea.. but as a Parent, (I could be Wrong Here) you always make suggestions or Tweaks for your 10- to Help them Do well. Conceptually the Deck Idea may be "Our" childs, but the Play testing and assistance is totally a Parent's! What parent (that Plays) isn't going to test the deck themselves and make "Suggestions" to the Child? Agreeably, some Kids have natural Ability and a good Deck Knowledge to build their own deck.. but C'Mon, 10- doing it "ALL" Themselves... Bad Parent to fib like that...


*Steps down off Box and slides it back in place for later usage.. waits for Intelligent Rebuttal*
Click to expand...

Hello MrMeches:

After just completing the ECSC w/ my son (10- group), I can rest assured that the winner of that division, Kevin R. built his deck all by himself. Kevin is 10, will be 11 in November. My son is 1 yr younger. The had a great time together. I met Kevin's parents and trust me, neither one knew a thing about pokemon TCG other than their son loved the game. They couldnt tell you the diff. between POR and an Oak tree :) I, on the other hand, still help my 9 yr old. He comes up w/ the idea of the Pokemon he wants and I help him on the trainer engine. My son only came in 6th, but got an invite to Worlds due to trickle downs.

Keith :)
 
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