Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

smeargle or chatot MD which ones better for luxchomp?

Naki Feralkin said:
I don't run either because I don't need to run either. My Sableye will do everything either of those can do while still having the capability to end you on Turn 1.

Chatot has been consistent since the dawn of time. Its draw power is impressive, it has free retreat, walls fighting types (except Champ), and can stall every Spiritomb using deck ever. Smeargle has a less than exemplary attack, can be power sprayed, gets one shot by fighting types, and can't set up fast enough against most SP decks.

If I were playing SP, I'd just rely on my engine to set up. After all, isn't that what SP has been doing since last season and even now?

I'd much rather have a Chatot/Sableye in my opening hand. Chatot can retreat if I get setup via other purposes and still help a bad hand, and Sableye can do.. well, ANYTHING. It donks, it judges, it hand *****, it slices, it dices, and can shine your shoes in twenty different ways.

ON TOPIC though.. I just don't see why you'd need Smeargle in Luxchomp. You already have Cyrus and half a dozen good starts (Luxray or Garchomp is a godsend to start with. You can begin killing almost immediatly.) Why prohibit yourself? Chatot can help you recover from bad hands, and trust me, if you need that cyrus in my hand to help you get over a bad intiative, I WILL blow the spray. It may be one less spray, but its also one more turn you're playing catchup.
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lol you make it sound like running smeargle means your playing an inconsistant deck. If anything, not running smeargle gives you that label. Giving me the option to grab 2 energies, a spray, a gain, and another supporter for next turn (assuming you use your own cyrus off the portraited cyrus) is stupidly sick, while locking the opponet off thier uxies and getting yourself set-up. I fail to see how spray is relevant at all. You spray? Great, I'll drop my uxie now and laugh as a still draw cards. You're spraying both? Great, you must've riped god or have been cyrusing for those cards and thus don't have the other nessicary cards for sp mirror matches. Plus you just burned 2 sprays in 1 turn, 3 if you spray the q to free retreat the smeargle. That's the one point with spray: you spray the q and it slows them down. However, sending up smeargle without the q attached already is pretty questionable.

Why prohibit what? What don't you get? You start attacking with your deck, as you should, you turn your damaged poke, you abuse smeargle, you retreat, and you attack again. It doesn't slow you down, but rather speeds you up instead of using things like sableye (which if you're donking with in an sp deck (not sablelock), you're doing something really wrong) or chatot that end your turn and slow you down a prize. Blowing the spray on the smeargle is exactly what I'm hoping, because I'm not losing a single thing and you're still behind on the resource game.

Of course, what do I care if you run smeargle or not? I'll let people who doubt it wait until contiously lose the mirror because of it being in the opposing deck before they shift thier mind set.
 
nnaann said:
You don't really play the card in Luxchomp v SP games to help you set up, you use it to give you a huge edge over the mirror. In the case of a bad start, you only need to hit off one Cyrus from a Portrait to get your game going. Being able to use 6-7 Cyrus's Conspriacys per game with sometimes 2 in one turn to quickly collect Sprays, Energy Gains, SP Radars and Poketurns gives you a huge edge. The spray argument is pretty invalid since you could argue that for anything and Portrait isn't essential - you just won't be able to Spray another important power which the Luxchomp uses to gain an advantage that way. For the record, the Power Spray argument is also less effective since good Luxchomp lists are dropping their spray counts from 4 to alot lower.

I don't see any excuse not to play Smeargle in SP decks. Provided you already play Unown Q, it takes up one space, rescues you from bad starts and gives you a HUGE edge against other SP decks not playing it, can bait Power Sprays and is easy to set up with a Pokemon Collector/Call Energy getting Smeargle and Unown Q onto the bench. It's one of the best cards in Undaunted, if not the best, and with SP looking to dominant the metagame for the sake of one space from sixty, I see no reason why people shouldn't run this card.
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Brady1 said:
lol you make it sound like running smeargle means your playing an inconsistant deck. If anything, not running smeargle gives you that label. Giving me the option to grab 2 energies, a spray, a gain, and another supporter for next turn (assuming you use your own cyrus off the portraited cyrus) is stupidly sick, while locking the opponet off thier uxies and getting yourself set-up. I fail to see how spray is relevant at all. You spray? Great, I'll drop my uxie now and laugh as a still draw cards. You're spraying both? Great, you must've riped god or have been cyrusing for those cards and thus don't have the other nessicary cards for sp mirror matches. Plus you just burned 2 sprays in 1 turn, 3 if you spray the q to free retreat the smeargle. That's the one point with spray: you spray the q and it slows them down. However, sending up smeargle without the q attached already is pretty questionable.

Why prohibit what? What don't you get? You start attacking with your deck, as you should, you turn your damaged poke, you abuse smeargle, you retreat, and you attack again. It doesn't slow you down, but rather speeds you up instead of using things like sableye (which if you're donking with in an sp deck (not sablelock), you're doing something really wrong) or chatot that end your turn and slow you down a prize. Blowing the spray on the smeargle is exactly what I'm hoping, because I'm not losing a single thing and you're still behind on the resource game.

Of course, what do I care if you run smeargle or not? I'll let people who doubt it wait until contiously lose the mirror because of it being in the opposing deck before they shift thier mind set.
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Both of these sum it up pretty well. Smeargle's been tested and proven. If you think it's bad, you haven't been playtesting enough. It raises consistency (not lowers).
 
LovingTheAlien said:
4. Use your extra space for 2 PONT and a VS seeker: I don't see how this can possibly be relevant, considering there is no reason you can't fit all of this AND smeargle into a deck? For what it's worth, I easily fit Smeargle, Sableye, 2 Unown Q, Unown DARK, 2 PONT, AND a VS Seeker into an SP deck. I even play 4 power spray! I'd like to know what junk you're playing instead that you can't fit ONE more card into your deck..
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Lol the junk i'm playing won me a BR over the weekend. How's your list doing?:tongue:

As it stands i can think of at least 10 other cards i'd rather play (that i dont already have in my deck) than smeargle. It boggles me where you guys are getting all this space from in all your SP decks. Drop Power spray count from 4? Rofl, power spray probably won me like 4 out 5 of my games this weekend, especdially in this slow as molasses format (comparitively speaking). I'll LOL while all you're set-ups, quicks, healing breaths, and bright looks are getting power sprayed without me having to search for them.


I'm not saying Smeargle is terrible or anything, or even that its not good. He's just not that GREAT nor does he aid in my problem matchups.

And that non-free retreat is really bothersome for an SP deck. Playing unown Q is a huge gamble in this metagame. Between everyone and their mom playing multiple sableye, uxie, crobat, e-belt, etc. You WILL lose your game if you only start with Unown Q T1. Heck, Drifloon has the lowest hp out of any poke in my deck and i'm thinking of taking him out for that reason alone. I like how a 30hp pokemon like unown q is now mandatory or "should" be in all your decks. How did retreating get any harder from last year that Q is now a must have in all decks:confused:

So where are we now? Looks like you'll have to burn through an energy just to make smeargle active and retreat.You play warp energy like the world champ? Go ahead, I'd rather play Call.

And how are you supposed to even start with Smeargle anyway if you only play one copy of him? Collector T1-T2 and free retreat out??? I'd rather start a cyrus chain early game. Can't do that if I'm trying to get out smeargle. (As an aside I guess you could use call energy for him T1 but I don't see peeps fitting that in with all the warp energy they "should" be playing)



Isn't theorymon fun?


Smeargle to me is a non-free retreat basic that can't attack in my deck and is tricky to set-up. He seems better suited to Dialgachomp decks but there's way better techs cards that you can play in luxchomp for days. In my opinion.


He's got pretty cool artwork though :colorless:
 
xcfrisco said:
Lol the junk i'm playing won me a BR over the weekend. How's your list doing?:tongue:
Winning a BR isn't saying much, but congrats....I've won 0/0 so :rolleyes:
As it stands i can think of at least 10 other cards i'd rather play (that i dont already have in my deck) than smeargle. It boggles me where you guys are getting all this space from in all your SP decks. Drop Power spray count from 4? Rofl, power spray probably won me like 4 out 5 of my games this weekend, especdially in this slow as molasses format (comparitively speaking). I'll LOL while all you're set-ups, quicks, healing breaths, and bright looks are getting power sprayed without me having to search for them.
Name them. I can guarntee you're wrong. 4 spray is overkill and doesn't do anything in this format. It's like playing 4 collector. Nice early game, terrible after. I'll also be LOL when I equal your spray count via smeargle while not slowing down. It boogles my mind to think that using extra supporters=losing to something that's designed to only slow down powers. While smeargle is a power, wasting your "extra" spray on it only further's it power. Also how are you getting your sprays without searching for them? Uxie? You mean the thing I'm free to spray because I have sprays stockpiled due to you not running smeargle? :lol:

I'm not saying Smeargle is terrible or anything, or even that its not good. He's just not that GREAT nor does he aid in my problem matchups.
The fact you claim this shows your limited testing. He gives you a 60/40 advantage in mirror just from the ability to abuse his power. Goodluck finding 2(1) slots that do that. He also aids in gengar through bebe's getting xs and removing trainers. and in general cases.

And that non-free retreat is really bothersome for an SP deck. Playing unown Q is a huge gamble in this metagame. Between everyone and their mom playing multiple sableye, uxie, crobat, e-belt, etc. You WILL lose your game if you only start with Unown Q T1. Heck, Drifloon has the lowest hp out of any poke in my deck and i'm thinking of taking him out for that reason alone. I like how a 30hp pokemon like unown q is now mandatory or "should" be in all your decks. How did retreating get any harder from last year that Q is now a must have in all decks:confused:
The rise of plume/tomb=no turns=retreating is more troublesome. Q is ran in a lot of decks now, but for sp to be afraid of lone Q that often is silly. It's also genearlly helpful with your uxie x, and a lot of sps ran it last season, so it's not been mandatory but it's been pretty common (now its mandatory due to smeargle).

So where are we now? Looks like you'll have to burn through an energy just to make smeargle active and retreat.You play warp energy like the world champ? Go ahead, I'd rather play Call.
What are you talking about? What are you sending up that you have to retreat it as soon as you turn?? This is a case of not understanding the card. Say it's t4 and your luxray just got hit for 60 with flash impact. You poketurn it, send up your Qed smeargle (note that you should obviously Q the smeargle before sending it active), and yay, you get a free supporter. If they spray, great, you get a free prize later in the game from bright look, or save a prize due to healing breath, etc.. It's not like your using smeargle as a starter. That's just silly. Running multiple smeargles has been talked about but I don't think it's that wise. However, opening with smeargle is a beautiful thing, and can easily lead to a t1 spray if you go first. Also why wouldn't you run warp energy? It's overkill to run 3 but 1-2 is pretty easy to use, and heck, there's an extra smeargle in some cases as well.

And how are you supposed to even start with Smeargle anyway if you only play one copy of him? Collector T1-T2 and free retreat out??? I'd rather start a cyrus chain early game. Can't do that if I'm trying to get out smeargle. (As an aside I guess you could use call energy for him T1 but I don't see peeps fitting that in with all the warp energy they "should" be playing)
AH HA, there's the issue we're having. You think you're supposed to start with smeargle, but you're not. He's a tech that adds consistancy mid-game, unlike a standard starter (though he functions like one still). That's the difference between him and sableye: He is used mid-game, but also can be used early game.


Isn't theorymon fun?
It is when you're playing it ALL WRONG.

Smeargle to me is a non-free retreat basic that can't attack in my deck and is tricky to set-up. He seems better suited to Dialgachomp decks but there's way better techs cards that you can play in luxchomp for days. In my opinion.


He's got pretty cool artwork though :colorless:
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:thumb:171717171771
 
^I agree, Chatot>Smeargle because Birds>Monkeys
I'm dead serious
Smeargle sucks too
.............
who even likes monkeys
 
This argument will never end because it really comes down to differences in play styles.

I could give every one of you the EXACT same list and you'd all play it differently.

Sabeleye and Smeargle are both cards that I want to SMASH right off the table as soon as I seen them because I know they're advantage techs that will speed up my opponents setup. Both have their uses.

I think Chatot, however, has seen it's day with the heavy use of PONT, Judge, and Copycat.
 
This is the way I see it. Any deck that already runs Unown Q(which should be all) should add in at least 1 Smeargle.

Its too GOOD not to play.
 
Back in the Holon era, I played the spiritual predecessor of this card, and I do have to say knowing what's in your opponent's hand is a pretty good advantage (though there are several pending rulings issues involving the card that complicate matters). I still think it ouweighs the possibility of using a shuffle drawer you didn't plan on. Yes, there are cases where it will backfire horribly, but I think you can say that for a lot of things in this game.
 
Brady1 said:
:thumb:<img src="http://pokegym.net/forums/images/smilies/nonono.gif">1771
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Meh, I think R_A is right about it coming down to playstyles. I'd personally rather have 4 sprays in my SP deck than 2 sprays and 1 Smeargle and 1 Unown Q.


Besides, I think techs/non-standard cards shall remain that way until they're TOURNEY proven. That's what it comes down to most imo. And I've read through a couple of winning master's BR reports in the tourney section and i dont hear them raving about how amazing smeargle was for them.
 
^Then let me be the first to tell you: Smearle sure was swell on the way to my taking 1st and 2nd in Masters, respectively, this weekend =P
As was Chatot!
 
^^^Smeargle AND chatot in the an SP deck!? Too much consistency for my tastes! ;p

Darkmot lists Smeargle as one of Props in his 1st place report too. Thats all I've seen though.
 
Just to improve the quality of discussion . . .

Lil_Magma said:
^I agree, Chatot>Smeargle because Birds>Monkeys
I'm dead serious
Smeargle sucks too
.............
who even likes monkeys
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Smeargle isn't a monkey. It's a dog.

Isn't it?
 
Smeargle>No Smeargle

If your deck can run it, run it. The card is too easy to splash in most decks and wins mirror matches if the opponent doesn't play Smeargle.
 
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