Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

So, is SableDonk really going to ruin BRs?

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i donked a sabledonk with luxchomp and they didn't start Q it was funny and then he donked me because i started with Q :lol:

---------- Post added 05/08/2011 at 09:50 AM ----------
chriscobi634 said:
Yes it will most likely ruin BRs. But even if PTCi doesn't get the numbers they expect at BRs for justifying a HGSS-on format for Nats they should look at all the people on these threads who all have already started planning for a HGSS-on format. As it just goes to show how tveryone is sick of the current format, even before the B/W rules everyone was already sick of that format. WE WANT CHANGE!!
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why do you want obama :lol:

---------- Post added 05/08/2011 at 09:51 AM ----------

if you want the mid season rotation just play 4 magikarp 56 energy :lol:
 
It's not necessarily the "sabledonk" deck that ruins the format, but that it contains cards that give you an unfair advantage if your opponent isn't running them (or a hard counter).

SF Sableye, LA Uxie, Crobat G, TGI PokeTurn

Are B/W based decks bad in this format? Not at all. But try running one without any of those cards
 
Bolt said:
It's not necessarily the "sabledonk" deck that ruins the format, but that it contains cards that give you an unfair advantage if your opponent isn't running them (or a hard counter).

SF Sableye, LA Uxie, Crobat G, TGI PokeTurn

Are B/W based decks bad in this format? Not at all. But try running one without any of those cards
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^ This.

In addition to what Bolt said, think about the unhealthy metagame impact this has. Unlimited has degenerated into a format where you either run a turbo deck, or "lock" to counter the turbo - nothing else. An MD-on format, as the rules stand now, would look almost identical, and even if Sabledonk isn't the BDIF, it stands to reason that the format would be very, very poor.
 
Being forced to either run Sableye+friends or a direct counter to it = ruined BRs. Sableye doesn't even have to do anything performance-wise-- its effect on the deck choices of players who are aware of its deadliness/care about not bombing does enough damage all by itself.
 
Yes. Sableye will ruin BR's. Not even donk versions, just something that has the format bend around it and counters to it ruin tournaments.
 
One reason I don't buy the "sabledonk will ruin the format" or the " it contains cards that give you an unfair advantage if your opponent isn't running them (or a hard counter)" is because the "hard counters" to it are cards that most people already play or could be expected to play. If you aren't already playing those counters as a part of your game, you're already not doing well against any other decks you're going to face.

Look at Spiritomb. It sees play in most decks. It's not necessarily there to counter the "cards that give [the Sabledonk player] an unfair advantage," which is a bonus, because it was originally in the deck to facilitate evolution. Running them in 4 also allows their use for discarding, like for the Regis or other things that call for a discard. It is even recognized as a tournament staple and made a league promo. So, even the leaguers are running this.

Maybe not donking 3 pokemon t1 for the win, but the BW rules favor t1kos. That's what playing trainers, like pluspower and reversal (later to be Catcher), on your first turn, lets you do.
 
butlerforhire said:
Being forced to either run Sableye+friends or a direct counter to it = ruined BRs. Sableye doesn't even have to do anything performance-wise-- its effect on the deck choices of players who are aware of its deadliness/care about not bombing does enough damage all by itself.
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Isn't this applicable to any deck though? You could say the same thing for LuxCHomp and decks that don't have favorable match-ups to it, or really any deck. I don't disagree that Sabledonk is an unhealthy deck, but it still has to be a relevently utilized deck to be a threat. Otherwise it's just a glorified Uxie donk which was already in our format and was generally ignored.
 
Shino Bug Master said:
Isn't this applicable to any deck though? You could say the same thing for LuxCHomp and decks that don't have favorable match-ups to it, or really any deck. I don't disagree that Sabledonk is an unhealthy deck, but it still has to be a relevently utilized deck to be a threat. Otherwise it's just a glorified Uxie donk which was already in our format and was generally ignored.
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Players are expected to divide themselves into one of two camps now: Sableye players and Spiritomb players. This division is occurring exclusively because of the brokenness of Sableye with the B&W rules. Uxie donk was always an overall bad deck choice that didn't single-handedly divide the format because it could lose on a coin flip on top of losing outright to Spiritomb/Gastly. Sableye automatically avoids the flip and gets to play trainers right away, leaving Spiritomb as its only real enemy.

It doesn't matter how Sableye actually performs if everyone shows up to Battle Roads with Sableye and Spiritomb decks. The deformation of the metagame/format still happened all because of the fear of Sableye and/or the mob "Sableye is too good to pass up, so I'll play it" mentality.

tl;dr: Sableye divides the format into "donk or lock the donk deck" all by itself, which is bad.
 
ShadowCard said:
One reason I don't buy the "sabledonk will ruin the format" or the " it contains cards that give you an unfair advantage if your opponent isn't running them (or a hard counter)" is because the "hard counters" to it are cards that most people already play or could be expected to play. If you aren't already playing those counters as a part of your game, you're already not doing well against any other decks you're going to face.
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Yeah, I get what you're saying...new rules kind of change the way I'm looking at things (and how I feel most players are looking at things).

Taking Spiritomb as the example (which you could add to the list of cards I mentioned before)...pre-BW Spiritomb is a great starter who sets up your evolutions and/or provides disruption...mainly vs the speedy, trainer-heavy nature of SP decks, allowing a normally slower deck to keep up. Those are the two uses I've seen for da tomb, in my experience.

Post-BW, from what I have seen and heard with admittedly little experience, Spiritombs primary nature is now to prevent your opponent from beating you before you get a turn.
 
Bolt said:
Yeah, I get what you're saying...new rules kind of change the way I'm looking at things (and how I feel most players are looking at things).
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Understandable. New rules make everyone look at their cards and wonder how they'll work now.

Sableye and Uxie and Crobat+PokeTurn have been good cards for a long time and people have been worried about how to avoid the donk since and then they adapted. Now, Sableye is better and people will again adapt. It will change the way people play and will give new purposes to cards we already use, but that is what new sets are supposed to do anyway.

For the future, T1kos should be the expectation, not the exception, because it should be clear that is where this game is heading with BW rules even after the rotation.

Bolt said:
Post-BW, from what I have seen and heard with admittedly little experience, Spiritombs primary nature is now to prevent your opponent from beating you before you get a turn.
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That is what we're currently teaching them is its primary use, isn't it? :wink:
 
Sableye (and other cards) interaction with the new B&W rules does ruin the format. They ruin the format by making players NOT WANT TO PLAY. Will players still play? Of course they will, but it makes little sense to me to introduce changes that turn your fans into critics.

Any format where your current players don't want to play needs to be examined, the core issues identified and changes planned and introduced. That is not restricted to cards, it applies just as much to tournament operation/structure and the ratings/rewards available too.
 
I only have one comment about SableDonk. And that's after testing a bit in the last week, my Reshiram/Emboar deck is currently 7-3 against it. I would have won more games but the SableDonk players stopped wanting to play against me. :lol: But knowing my luck I won't play against any at Battle Roads. :frown:
 
Skitty said:
I only have one comment about SableDonk. And that's after testing a bit in the last week, my Reshiram/Emboar deck is currently 7-3 against it. I would have won more games but the SableDonk players stopped wanting to play against me. :lol: But knowing my luck I won't play against any at Battle Roads. :frown:
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mind telling us you consistantly opened with 4 or more basics?
 
NoPoke said:
Sableye (and other cards) interaction with the new B&W rules does ruin the format. They ruin the format by making players NOT WANT TO PLAY. Will players still play? Of course they will, but it makes little sense to me to introduce changes that turn your fans into critics.
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NoPoke, everybody is a critic :thumb:

SP made players not want to play. How horrible we let that stay in the tournament format for so long. :rolleyes:

The only people who wouldn't want to play are the ones who are not playing to play the game. Anyone who walks into league with a sabledonk, I try to make time to play them. Like Skitty, I'm eager to continue beating it. That's the approach players should be taking: looking to face challenges that a new set brings and adapt your playstyle. No need to raise the white flag over speculation.
 
The thing is that the B&W set brought new cards with the new rules. They, along with other cards that we have, can counter those broken Sable-decks, thus making it a balanced format. At BR's we're going to see a lot of stuff being played. It's not just Sable-decks and Spirit bombs that you'll have to worry about. You've got the new cards + everything that's in the old format, which makes it one of the hardest challenges to overcome.

Mostly everyone is praying for a rotation change before NATS. I'm as tired of this format as the rest of you, but if there's something that can balance it out and we see something different at the top tables. I'll take that until it's time to officially change the format after Worlds.
 
I may be off base here, buy anyone who claims they are beating sableye donk without starting 2 spiritomb/their own sableeye is either
A-playing a bad built deck
B-playing a bad player
C-started like 3 zekrom/reshiram which is very very unlikely
D- Not telling the truth

I would hope the answers A-C are the situation

From what i have seen/tested once you get that start its pretty much game.
 
I will miss MD - BW. Those were the Golden Ages of the Pokemon TCG... T_T

SableDonk players are now my personal heroes. To your happiness and health, SableDonk users!
 
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