Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Stalling

Status
Not open for further replies.
Y

yoyofsho16

New Member
While never personally happening to me, once while I was at States, during one of my matches, aat another table, someone in Masters yelled, "Stalling!!" and a judge came over, and a game loss was issued to the stalling player, after a few minutes.

At what point does the gameplay become slow enough to constitute stalling? Is it just in the opinion of the player and the judge, or is there an official ruling for how long stalling is in time?

Or is that even the correct ruling, to give a game loss?
 
It's a case-by-case issue, really... I recall playing in tournaments where someone next to me was deliberately stalling for a good five minutes versus times where it took me a good six minutes to work out a good play that got me to win a match.
 
Stalling is something I go thro alot in BRs cuz they read every single card text,like you dont know it,they shuffle excessively,and t hey go" I played my supporter for the turn,have I used all my powers?" then they go" Cosmic Power for 1 uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 2 and draw 3/4. Hmmmmm ok Telepass for Bebes. Then looks thro the deck 4 times then chooses nothing. Then tries to caculate damage,and then says" Ive played my supporter,Ive used cosmic power and Ive used Telepass" then attacks like 3 minutes later.

I mean,when the skill cap is higher,you can tell when someone knows that their stalling and when they just dont get the deck sometimes. Stalling is really big now because of Gardilade,I mean its easy to have like several 3-4 min turns.
 
It's such a touchy subject to call though. Like the end of the game is usually when the most time to think is needed. At the same time, one should not be too aggressive in calling stalling because it essentially puts the fate of the game in the hands of the judges, and that's never good. Personally, I think most of these issues can be solved with a simple time or turn extension, but a game loss should not be issued unless a player was blatantly sitting there doing nothing.

I feel for the judges at the grinder, as there will be a lot of crucial calls to be made and a lot of players trying to pull shenanigans to get that Worlds spot.
 
Banette EX said:
Stalling is something I go thro alot in BRs cuz they read every single card text,like you dont know it,they shuffle excessively,and t hey go" I played my supporter for the turn,have I used all my powers?" then they go" Cosmic Power for 1 uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 2 and draw 3/4. Hmmmmm ok Telepass for Bebes. Then looks thro the deck 4 times then chooses nothing. Then tries to caculate damage,and then says" Ive played my supporter,Ive used cosmic power and Ive used Telepass" then attacks like 3 minutes later.

I mean,when the skill cap is higher,you can tell when someone knows that their stalling and when they just dont get the deck sometimes. Stalling is really big now because of Gardilade,I mean its easy to have like several 3-4 min turns.
Click to expand...

yeah, unfortunatley i think there's gonna be a lot of slow-play at worlds/the grinder with G&G, because of the ability to use a supporter, telepass, cosmic power, choose which pokemon to shuffle in with dusknoir etc.. (not fun)


even for the players who play relitively fast though, i think a lot of games will still come to time...
 
If there is around 10 minutes and the game is close I will consider asking the judge to watch my game. I am also an advocate, that if you get called for stalling and get a time extenstion that the player who was called for stalling should not be allowed to win a game for the rest of that tournament on time.

Drew
 
Stalling can get a GL (just ask our Natl Champ Gino :wink: ). We, as a judging community, will NOT give a concrete answer to this bc we are not going to get painted into a corner where X is stalling and Y is not. Trust me, the judges watch and have ways to impact the pace of play, if we arent happy.

Keith
 
I can see this being a huge issue at the grinder. I hope there will be enough judges to watch over these kinds of matches.
 
Stalling is cheating, yah? Slow play, not. They get different penalties.

Players need to get a copy of the penalty guidelines, especially if they're concerned about being slow played or stalled:
http://www.go-pokemon.com/op/tournaments/rulesandresources.html

Section 7.4 said:
In general, the following time limits for various game actions should be appropriate.

The times given below are general guidelines; players attempting to use every second of the time allowed for the items below are almost certainly stalling and should be subject to the Unsporting Conduct: Severe penalties.

Performing the actions of a card or attack: 15 seconds
Shuffling and setup, game start: 2 minutes
Shuffling and deck search, mid-game: 15 seconds
Starting the turn after opponent’s “end of turn” announcement: 5 seconds
Considering the game position before playing a card: 10 seconds
Click to expand...


So, is it prize loss, game loss or DQ?

7.6.2. Major
Players are expected to behave in a respectful manner to all attendees and staff of
a Pokémon TCG event. Players who don’t behave properly need to be reminded
to with the issuance of a penalty. Infractions in this category have a direct impact
on event operation or cause a small degree of emotional distress to those around
them.

Examples of Unsporting Conduct: Major include:
• ...
• Making legal plays which have no effect on the game in progress to
manipulate the time remaining in a match.
• Playing slowly to manipulate the time remaining in a match.

Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Prize Card
Tier 2: Game Loss

7.6.3. Severe
Players are expected to behave in a respectful manner to all attendees and staff of
a Pokémon TCG event. Players who don’t behave properly need to be reminded
to with the issuance of a penalty. Infractions in this category have a serious
impact on event operation, cause great emotional distress to those around them, or
involve a physical altercation.

Examples of Unsporting Conduct: Severe include:
• ...

Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Disqualification
Tier 2: Disqualification
Click to expand...

if you're getting slow played or stalled, call a judge and do it before the last minute of the game... specifically & politely explain the opponents actions that are stalling and ask the judge to watch the match for a couple turns (they're supposed to in this case)

first thing to do THE MOMENT when your opponent starts up with stalling & slow play, is to tell them politely,

"please stop <specific behavior>, you need to let me take my turns, too."

examples:
  • Please stop going back and forth between your hand and the piles, you've seen them all ... you need to let me take my turns, too.
  • Please stop thinking about your move... you really only have a few moments to consider before making a play, you need to let me take my turns, too.
Got it? Then if they persist, call a judge.

A different situation is when an opponent is just making lots and lots and lots of legal moves. Look at your wristwatch (all players concerned about slow play or stalling wear wristwatches, right? ORLY? Better get one.) and time the turn, then you can say to the judge, "My opp has been taking long turns. Last turn I timed him as he did (list of legal plays) taking the maximum time for nearly every one and his turn was over 3 minutes. Several of these moves, for example, < examples >, seemed to have no effect on the game state. May I have a five minute extension on this match? Will you watch the next couple turns?
 
It is a touchy subject and the game should be decided by the play not the judges, but I know personally there are several people who will do anything to win. They have chosen not to necessarily let the best player win, but let stalling decide. Unless you consider stalling a tactic.
 
TheDarkTwins said:
I am also an advocate, that if you get called for stalling and get a time extenstion that the player who was called for stalling should not be allowed to win a game for the rest of that tournament on time.
Click to expand...

That doesn't really work out, Drew. So are you telling me that if a player has 1 prize left when time is called, and their opponent has 6 prizes, the player with 1 prize loses because they stalled earlier?

That is way more unfair then the actual stalling itself.
 
Had I been more aware of slow-playing at Nationals, T32 might have looked a little different. I'm not saying I would have made the cut; I'm say my opponent wouldn't have had a Round 1 win.
 
Stalling is tough to call. That is for sure.
Sometimes I feel like my opponent might be stalling, but I don't really want to say anything because then I may come across as one of those rude players, which I most certainly am not when you play me in person.
But if the pace of the game becomes too slow, and I am afraid that it will become a factor in the victor of the match, then I will kindly say something like "Hey buddy, do you think we could pick up the pace just a little bit? I really don't want this to go to time, thanks.".
Just something simple and nice like that should be enough to pick up the pace, and if it isn't then I will gladly call over a judge and ask them to watch for a couple of turns.

People, if you feel that stalling is taking place, SAY SOMETHING! Whether it be to the player or a judge, just let someone know so that after the match you don't hear yourself saying things like "well I only lost because he stalled me out...".
Just be cool about it and hopefully your opponent will help you out.
 
EXACTLY.

I didn't want to sound like a jerk... but when it was coming down to the final 10 minutes or so. I had to ask him to "advance the game state" 3-4 times. You can only take account of what both players have in their discard pile before it's recognized as just another thing to run the time during your turn.
 
When it comes down to it, when the ten minute warning is said you should trck time by other means. I know people that can track time in their head if they are told when the coundown took place. Call a judge over to wtch game pace then. It never hurts to try and is a must in the high ranking tournys.
 
Depending on the tournament. me looking like a jerk is the least of my worries lol. At worlds a few years ago in the top 32 match my opp. won the first game and naturally slowed his game play down in the second game. as we hit the 10 minute warning, I blatantly said to my opp. "dude, Im not an idiot, I know your staling can you please stop". naturally he looked puzzled, I simply called a judge over and the judge shuffled his deck whenever he had to hurried him. And because of that I had enough time to win the second game and then had 5 minutes and managed to win the 3rd game because the judge was helping me

moral of story= speak up and call a judge over
 
here ill make a point that no one is making yes it is up to the judge & it depends on how he looks @ the game/round. but in tournaments on a players turn there is only a 2 min limit for every turn but still in the case its up to you to call it if it goes over the 2 min limit & up to the judge because he could just have alot to do that turn so it up to u & the judge to make that call
 
yoyo is that really how the call went down?

Was there a judge previously at a table that you know of?

What state, as that is way, way too odd in my opinion.

Vince
 
There needs to be a black and white ruling on this subject IMO. Anything less gives the judges a lot more power than necessary in determining a winner. In other sports/games, there is a set time where you WILL get a penalty if you don't make a move (24 second shot clock in basketball, 40 second play clock in football, etc.). In the NFL, a referee will not say "Team A took longer than they usually do to come up with a play, so I'm going to put extra time on the clock". All games must come to an end, and optimally that game is decided by the people/teams playing it.

Example in Pokemon - close game, player quickly checks discards for the essentials (DRE, Scramble, RC, etc.) and takes a little longer than they have earlier in the game to make a decision. Is this, without a doubt, stalling? Sometimes it may be, but the end of the game, where prizes are tied or a player is up by 1, a player needs more time to make the correct decision. An overzealous/aggressive judge may consider this so, and thus taking the ball out of the players' hands.

A couple proposals to keep the stalling issue in line:
- A strictly enforced ten or fifteen second limit in between actions. This would move the game along at a reasonable pace. EVERY play has some effect on the game state, and should be treated as such.
- Extra turns after time is called. Personally, I feel this would be the best solution, as no matter how much one slow plays, the opponent still has X number of turns at the end of the game.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top