Super Standard Luxchomp list

[xcfrisco]

Pokemon: 21

2-2 Luxray GL lv X
2-2 Grachomp C lv X
2-1 Uxie lv X
1 Drifloon (Shiny) SF
1 Drifbim UD
1 Ambipom G
1 Promocroak
1 Bronzong G
1 Crobat G
1 Lucario GL
1 Azelf LA
1 Smeargle UD
1 Unown Q MD


TSS: 26

4 Cyrus Conspiracy
2 Pokemon Collector
2 Bebe's Search
2 PONT
1 Aaron's
1 Palmer's
4 Poketurn
4 Power Spray
3 Energy Gain
3 SP radar



Eneregy: 13

4 Call
4 DCE
3 Lightning
2 Psychic

Pretty Standard list. If I'm not afraid of Machamp or Mewtwo I'll take out 1-1 Drifblim and Psy nrg for a 1-1 Blaziken lv X line and a Fire.

This is really my jack of all trades list, and not tailor suited for any meta really. The 4 power spray are for my playstyle of focusing on the early game lock instead of aggro-SP rush or something. I used to be the biggest Smeargle hater in the world but I found that it practically wins the mirror (especially when coupled with the 4 power spray) as the mirror comes down to whoever can get there Smeargle+Q out first. It also help a lot against VileGar and other trainer lock decks. I play Palmer's instead of a second Aaron's so I can recycle back KO'd Uxie lv Xs and Drifblims, plus its a great utility in general and gives me more freedom in being able to discard basic energies for Dragon Rush. Palmer's also combos well with the 3rd SP radar for getting back KO'd SPs in the same turn (works excellent late game), and allows me to be more flexible with early game radars. Energy line is to be consistent and so I don't get screwed over in case an Electric or Psy is ever prized

This list (with like 2-3 card alterations depending on the meta and how I wanted to play that day) helped me go 10-0 during BRs but is 10-5 during the 3 cities that I've attended (1 due to misplay(s), 2 donks, 1 awful start, and the last due to playing a superior player)


Rate away.

 

[Porii Sames]

1. I dislike PONTs; other Hand Refreshers imo are better.

2. You need to get in that 3rd Collector. Wins games.

Other than that, looks fine.

 

[xcfrisco]

1. I dislike PONTs; other Hand Refreshers imo are better.

2. You need to get in that 3rd Collector. Wins games.

Other than that, looks fine.

1. I prefer consistency over the luck-based nature that other hand-refreshers offer

2. I've heard a lot of people make this claim, but can you elaborate more (I am in disbelief)? 90% of games if I have the option to Cyrus or Collector first, I'll want to cyrus so I can get some SP trainers in my hand. If i ever have a lone collector I have to pray that I dont wiff on my set-up attempt for the resources I need through Uxie's Set-up AND hope it doesn't get power sprayed in the mirror. I've tried 3 Collectors and the 3rd, and often times 2nd, collector ends up being a dead card mid-game and beyond.

 

[nnaann]

Don't get 2 Collector. You run a deck full of basic Pokemon, you should be playing 3-4.

Rather than 2 PONT, you should be going for a Looker's Investigation and a Cynthias/Copycat.

Most games, you don't even need 2 Aaron so Palmer is deadweight. I'd drop it for a VS Seeker or 2nd Aaron.

4 Power Spray is nice, but I think you might have to cut one to save room.

I'd also run 3-1 Garchomp C Lv X. Since you only run one counter which doesn't always score a 1HKO, you might struggle in the mirror with just 2 Garchomp C.

 

[Porii Sames]

^What he said x1717

 

[xcfrisco]

Don't get 2 Collector. You run a deck full of basic Pokemon, you should be playing 3-4.

But why would I need to Collector more than twice in one game? 3rd and 4th collector just seem (and often end up being through playtesting) very dead cards mid-late game.

I can see the argument that it increases my chances of starting with it, and thus off-setting the occurance of "dead card" starts. But tbh I very infrequently want to start a game with collector, I'd rather start a cyrus chain.

And with VS seeker, I find my #1 problem matchup is Vilegar, most other decks just get overwhelmed through just Sprays and Dragon Rush alone. I dont see the argument for putting in a card that makes my worst match-ups worse but my "good" matchups better.


Your other suggestions are playstyle choices imo and I can see myself putting in those cards depending on how I feel like playing that day. Although I do find Palmer's to be exceptionally useful in almost every matchup due to Night Maintenance having been rotated out (just one form of recovery is just asking to have no resources late game)

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

It's like saying you only need 1-2 Spiritomb a game in Vilegar. But people run 4 because it's great to start with it. Same goes for Collector in Luxchomp.

VS Seeker is nice with Junk Arm, and great against Smeargle.

You need to get basics on the field before you start using Cyrus.

 

[nnaann]

But why would I need to Collector more than twice in one game? 3rd and 4th collector just seem (and often end up being through playtesting) very dead cards mid-late game.

I can see the argument that it increases my chances of starting with it, and thus off-setting the occurance of "dead card" starts. But tbh I very infrequently want to start a game with collector, I'd rather start a cyrus chain.

And with VS seeker, I find my #1 problem matchup is Vilegar, most other decks just get overwhelmed through just Sprays and Dragon Rush alone. I dont see the argument for putting in a card that makes my worst match-ups worse but my "good" matchups better.


Your other suggestions are playstyle choices imo and I can see myself putting in those cards depending on how I feel like playing that day. Although I do find Palmer's to be exceptionally useful in almost every matchup due to Night Maintenance having been rotated out (just one form of recovery is just asking to have no resources late game)

You're running 15 basics at the moment. You're likely to get use from 3 Pokemon Collector, and draw into the other 6. It's all about consistency, and making sure your deck works every game. Did you know with 4 Call and 2 Collector, you're only going to open with one of those in just over half your games?

To be honest, I don't get why you'd ever want to open with Cyrus over Collector. You only get 4 Cyrus to last a game, you don't want to overextend when you don't need to. At the beginning, that bench needs to be filled - always use the Collector T1.

I assumed you didn't have much Vilegar near you. If it's a big problem, then 4 Spray is pretty pointless. Power Spray isn't amazing against other SP decks either, so you need to judge whether you could use the spaces elsewhere.

Some of them were playstyle choices, but the Cynthia and Lookers make alot more sense against any decks over 2 PONTs. Cynthia and Lookers give you 13 cards over 12 plus the potential disruption against any decks with big hands like Gyarados or SP.

 

[PokeMontoya]

4 Collector 3 call (uxie donk is everywhere) 3-1 garchomp. 3 spray 2 premire ball 2 junk arm1 Luxury Ball ERL is your best friend vs everything

 

[xcfrisco]

snip

I may have 15 basic pokemon, but do remember I only have 5 bench spaces total! I'll always start a game with at least one basic pokemon, and my opponent can only take a maximum of 5 prizes (where I can bench) and I wont even be able to bench a pokemon after they take their 6th. Thus, in any one game of pokemon, because i dont play seeker or super scoop up, I will on be able to bench a maximum of 10 pokemon, ie., I'll only get to use/search out 10 out of my 15 basics max. Unown Q, using psychic restore or take away and poketurn slightly alter this number but lets put it an even 12 for argument sake.


Now you are right when you say I can use my 3rd and 4th Collctors to search out for these cards. However, the following cards in my deck also will do this for me:

3 SP Radar
2 Bebe's Search

And the following cards/game actions have the potential to do this as well:

Drawing a card
Using call energy
PONT
Set-Up (Pokepower)


That's an awful lot of ways to get out basic pokemon! Like I said, the 3rd and 4th collector often end up being VERY dead cards through playtesting. I will only want and need to collector twice (if that) in 90% of the games I play.

You have an argument for T1 collector. I'll give you that. But there's more utility to be had, imo, by being able to place 2 other cards in my SP list than to be able to T1 collector. (Most games I can T2 collector cause I'll just cyrus for one too!!). Also, having 4 Call energies really dimishes the amount that I'll ever want to T1 collector. I almost NEVER want to completely fill my bench early game.




On the subject of a 4th Power spray or Vs seeker against Vilegar...

Your right in saying the power spray and vs seeker are both equaly useless against trainer lock. However, in the instances where opposing Vilegar can't get a Spiritomb start, early game Power Spray will outright win me the game, whereas vs seeker does nothing early game and is a dead card (which is the case in every matchup)

The 1-1 Cynthia's-Lookers line is something I should try out though. Like I said, Copycat is too luck-driven to be usefull imo. My biggest issue with Cynthia is that it also has the potential of only netting you 4 cards at time when you really really need to hand refresh. It can be player around too by having KOs set-up via Special Conditions or Poke-powers rather than attacks (Fainting Spell being the best example). This is never the case with PONT, and for someone who is so adamant about consistency, I'm surprised that PONT isn't your primary choice too.

 

[Porii Sames]

Run Copycat/Looker's. I tried PONT, it is absolutely inferior when I tried it.

 

[PokeMontoya]

Now you are right when you say I can use my 3rd and 4th Collctors to search out for these cards. However, the following cards in my deck also will do this for me:

3 SP Radar
2 Bebe's Search

These should almost never be used to get basics unless its for bat or zong or croak. Main use is the Lv X's

 

[Hammertime]

VS Seeker is great early game when you have to Cyrus for a Collector.

 

[Volt]

So.. why would you play 3 or 4 (?!?!) Collector when you need 1-2 at MAX per game? So you can start with it? Do the math, the small increase in percentage is not worth it. You can't compare it with Spiritomb, because you WANT to start with 'Tomb no matter what, but I don't think it's necessary with LuxChomp where you can play SP Radar, Communication(s) and Luxury Ball, who are less dead draw late game and still serve the purpose.

tl;dr: just like xcfriso said.

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

You also want to start with Collector no matter what, the cards great turn one.

They're also great for thinning the deck late game, which a lot of people seem to forget.

Getting rid of three cards in your deck really helps you draw into the more important stuff late game.

Communication's and Luxury Ball aren't that good in Luxchomp anyway.

 

[xcfrisco]

They're also great for thinning the deck late game, which a lot of people seem to forget.

Lol that's what I end up doing with my 2nd-4th collector anyway cause they're dead cards mid-game otherwise! That extraneous collector could be something WAY more useful than thinning my deck. It could be my 4th power spray/e gain, a PONT (way more useful mid-late game than collector), my premier ball (if i ran one, lol), my 2nd Aaron's/Palmers (which is severely under-rated in SP), you name it! Any of those cards would be way more useful than drawing into another Collector beyond like T3 lol

 

[PokeMontoya]

Communication's and Luxury Ball aren't that good in Luxchomp anyway.

In ERL variants they are Amazing. There is more than one way to LuxChomp

 

[nnaann]

I may have 15 basic pokemon, but do remember I only have 5 bench spaces total! I'll always start a game with at least one basic pokemon, and my opponent can only take a maximum of 5 prizes (where I can bench) and I wont even be able to bench a pokemon after they take their 6th. Thus, in any one game of pokemon, because i dont play seeker or super scoop up, I will on be able to bench a maximum of 10 pokemon, ie., I'll only get to use/search out 10 out of my 15 basics max. Unown Q, using psychic restore or take away and poketurn slightly alter this number but lets put it an even 12 for argument sake.


Now you are right when you say I can use my 3rd and 4th Collctors to search out for these cards. However, the following cards in my deck also will do this for me:

3 SP Radar
2 Bebe's Search

And the following cards/game actions have the potential to do this as well:

Drawing a card
Using call energy
PONT
Set-Up (Pokepower)


That's an awful lot of ways to get out basic pokemon! Like I said, the 3rd and 4th collector often end up being VERY dead cards through playtesting. I will only want and need to collector twice (if that) in 90% of the games I play.

You have an argument for T1 collector. I'll give you that. But there's more utility to be had, imo, by being able to place 2 other cards in my SP list than to be able to T1 collector. (Most games I can T2 collector cause I'll just cyrus for one too!!). Also, having 4 Call energies really dimishes the amount that I'll ever want to T1 collector. I almost NEVER want to completely fill my bench early game.




On the subject of a 4th Power spray or Vs seeker against Vilegar...

Your right in saying the power spray and vs seeker are both equaly useless against trainer lock. However, in the instances where opposing Vilegar can't get a Spiritomb start, early game Power Spray will outright win me the game, whereas vs seeker does nothing early game and is a dead card (which is the case in every matchup)

The 1-1 Cynthia's-Lookers line is something I should try out though. Like I said, Copycat is too luck-driven to be usefull imo. My biggest issue with Cynthia is that it also has the potential of only netting you 4 cards at time when you really really need to hand refresh. It can be player around too by having KOs set-up via Special Conditions or Poke-powers rather than attacks (Fainting Spell being the best example). This is never the case with PONT, and for someone who is so adamant about consistency, I'm surprised that PONT isn't your primary choice too.

After 5 bench spaces, you have nothing to lose by just thinning the deck. Alot of those Basics are gonna get KO'd anyway, so you'll use more per game. It's also nice to hold cards like Ambipom G and Toxicroak G in hand for the suprise factor, they don't require a bench spot.

You don't want to use SP Radar or Bebe's Search to get out basic Pokemon unless you're really desperate - especially since you don't play Premier Ball. Sure that's true to an extent, but it's always better to be safe then sorry. The way I see it, the better chance you have of winning a tournament, the more important consistency gets. Once you can get to the stage where you're able to outplay most of your opponents, the only real things hindering you are bad starts or being donked.

You have a good point, although personally I don't think either are great against Vilegar.

I would definately recommend it. I'm a big fan of Cynthia's Feelings in Luxchomp, it works really well (I only run one shuffle + draw supporter). I know alot of people worry about the drawback if you didn't have a Pokemon KO'd, but you usually have a good enough draw engine with Uxies, Uxie Lv X, Smeargle and Cyrus to not need to play it for 4. If your opponent isn't KO'ing your Pokemon, then there's no real need to shuffle in for 4. The damage counters are a good point, but I can't really think of a position where Luxchomp would be in - especially since they can't be poisoned from Skuntank G. If you're looking to use Cynthias equally for 4 or 8, then it would be better to go for 6 with the Pont - maybe even up to 60-70% of the time when you shuffle in for 8. I think I've only used it for 4 cards once over about 20-25 games in tournaments/testing. If I relied on shuffle draw supporters as my main engine, I would consider another option :thumb:.

So.. why would you play 3 or 4 (?!?!) Collector when you need 1-2 at MAX per game? So you can start with it? Do the math, the small increase in percentage is not worth it. You can't compare it with Spiritomb, because you WANT to start with 'Tomb no matter what, but I don't think it's necessary with LuxChomp where you can play SP Radar, Communication(s) and Luxury Ball, who are less dead draw late game and still serve the purpose.

tl;dr: just like xcfriso said.

15 Basics (with the aim of drawing all of those to thin the deck), and 1-2 Collector draw 3-6 per game? Luxury Ball doesn't really work since it searches out the exact same Pokemon from the deck as Collector, but only 1 as opposed to 3. SP Radar and any Pokemon Communication should be used for his Lv Xs, since he runs no Premier Ball.
Don't forget, you'd need to run 3 trainers to do the same job that 1 card card does.

I have done the Maths, and it makes sense to run 4 Collector. Taking into an average City Championship of 5 rounds and a Top 4 with the aim to win, you're looking at around 10 games. Calculating the odds, it means that you have alot better starts in 1-2 games per tournament. Take that into account that one loss in Swiss could make you lose the oppotunity to top cut, or most certainly alongside a donk which do happen. Then imagine if one of those games occured in Top Cut, putting you under pressure to 2-0 an opponent with a time limit in play and alot tougher games then swiss.

 

[idrumprettywell]

i'd say junk arms (1 or 2) would be way too helpful to pass up in this deck. just ditch the techs not needed in the matchup (drifblim, ambipom, etc.) for an extra turn/spray/whatever else. and i don't want to be generic, but you need the 3rd collector. it's the only way to get out uxie/azelf/unown q

 

[xcfrisco]

i'd say junk arms (1 or 2) would be way too helpful to pass up in this deck. just ditch the techs not needed in the matchup (drifblim, ambipom, etc.) for an extra turn/spray/whatever else. and i don't want to be generic, but you need the 3rd collector. it's the only way to get out uxie/azelf/unown q

Not true my friend, Bebe's Search is also an option. Also, I like really really like junk arm but the list is too tight to warrant inclusion. Smart play will prevent you from ever needing junk arm in a match, don't just use all your trainers cause you can, be selective.

Drifblim is a great counter to the metagame. Gets ohko (or close to it) on Machamp, Vileplume, Uxie lv X, Promocroak for only 2 energies plus its helps against tank decks like Steelix, Dialga, Tyranitar, Donphan by shuffling them.

Ambipom is universely useful. I won against a very bad match-up (turbo machamp) cause I T1 donked with Ambipom, you were at that cities! It also can revenge kill opposing Garchomp Cs, which is invaluable in the mirror. Its first attack isn't half bad either!