Survey - Donk'd - Turn 1 or 2 loss in Championship Events

[toxictaipan]

I can't guarantee my accuracy on question number 5 (I kept no track at all), but I think it's pretty close.

I fell there are TOO MANY ways to donk someone in the format. If there was only one card that donked, it would be better.

But when you've had like 3 cards in a very short amount of time, *someone* needs to pay a little more attention to what the cards they're making actually say.

I mean hello, doesn't Machamp just scream, "RARE CANDY ME, I'M A STAGE 2 AND I ONLY TAKE ONE ENERGY TO TOTALLY KILL YOUR OPPONENT!!!!!"?

If they would have payed attention and made that attack take 2 energy there is no way Machamp could donk half as often. Or at least, the opponent could have a slight bit more time to get another basic.

 

[BloodDraek]

I took the survey but you know what, I don't really think that new rules must be made so that donks are stopped. I mean only at battle Roads and kind of at cities were donks really popular. And the only way I could see this game getting to a truly unfair state would be if next year unown g gets rotated. I mean right now donks can be played around, if unown g gets rotated machamp will become stupid. Donks will probably be inevitable throughout the season. For now I think our states of the game is fine. What if the new rules don't change anything.

Just tell the PCL to stop printing broken cards, the power creep is already getting rediculous. I say tone down the power of the cards getting printed to a level where skill level is needed more than any other season. it isn't quite to late to do this. If they print out cards like the ex series had, we would have to deal with one more bad season and then pokemon would be better than ever.

 

[toxicroak 96]

In my opinion donks aren't bad for the game. I played Rampardos at Regionals and my list got two donks
in seven rounds. If they net-deck the list that's a problem, but if you built the list like me than it's great
if your deck can constantly donk.

 

[Yoshi-]

In my opinion donks aren't bad for the game. I played Rampardos at Regionals and my list got two donks
in seven rounds. If they net-deck the list that's a problem, but if you built the list like me than it's great
if your deck can constantly donk.

No its not, its the same cheap okeball: as always, building a list that can donk consistently is so easy it hurts... I mean, does the ability to hold your cards / to shuffle your deck qualify you as a good player, or whatever you think gives you the right to donk in contrast to others, as well :/ ?

2 rounds means you ruined 2 peoples days. I can understand when people run these decks because they want to win, but dont try to justify it as fair... :nonono:

 

[toxictaipan]

I'm going to take a guess and say that you havn't gotten donked in top cut at a major tourney yet. Trust me, when you do your going to change your opinion. Furthermore, your in seniors. Your entire dev is far different from the masters, so you really don't have much say in this.

Yeah, just so happens that the Senior Division has to use the same exact cards you Master players do. So guess what! We play the same decks you guys play. There are just as many donks in the Senior Division as there are in the Master Division.

I'm tired of you walking around like you're the bestest best of the best because you're older than us.

Maybe your community college education is superior to my 9th grade education, and maybe the Master players' brains are a little more strategic, but it's just as hard for any one person to pull down an event in their appropriate age division as it is for you.

I get donked, you get donked. We both don't like it.

That doesn't mean that you're better than us because you're older. There's a girl who's like really young (I don't remember how old, like 5 or something) and she got like a 155 on the IQ test, Einstein got like a 160-something. But let me guess, because you're older than her, you're smarter, too?

You throw the phrase, "You're a Senior," around like it's a derogatory term. I wonder if the game could survive if the Senior and Junior players weren't here to buy cards. Then there wouldn't even be a Master Division. Hmmm..... Seems we're kind of.... Important. Huh?

 

[UFtroll]

Took the survey.

I agree with the problem with question 7. The season of LBS and Mew forced you to play a deck or lose and ran prices of cards throught the roof. Blastoise EX, Ray Star, Lugia EX, Mew EX all over $40. They complain this year that Claydol cost $10 to $20 and Uxie is $10.

There is one other issue with the survey. It is bias to donks are an issue. It should ask about your experience in donking and what you think about that and if you built a deck specifically to take advantage of them.

Donks are okay. If you can build a deck that has the ability to donk and the ability to win a long drawn out game then you should. I have done that with Delta Charizard with Delcatty EX and this year with Sableye-absol-T-Tar. I donked 3 or 4 times at Reginals this year and got an easy walk to top cuts. Is that a donk or a good build?

As for the knock on the Senoirs Division. They do have to worry more about donks and random strange decks because there are new players at every tournement. I am a Master and only play because I have a Junior and Senior player. Without younger players the Masters Division would be about 30 to 40% the size it is and you would top cut at 2 or 4 maybe 8 at states and regionals.

 

[eriknance]

Last season, there were some T1 donks w/ TogeChomp, Infernape, Blissey, Magmortar, Electivire, and many decks.

Without DRE now, new Pokemon have been created and it sucked. Donks are easier to make now, and it has been out of control. Winning on your first turn was alright since you kind of had to work, but winning that easy now with just Rare Candy just created a disaster.

TogeChomp was rarely seen last season, at least from my understanding. I mean, I never saw it in play, though I did see a couple of Togekiss/Ho-Oh decks. Infernape could very easily manage a T1 win, no doubt about it. But how could Blissey, Magmortar, and Electivire pull off T1 wins?! So, out of all that you said, only one deck could pull off T1 wins... nice...

This format sees the following decks getting T1 wins: Machamp, Kingdra, Rampardos, Toxitank, G decks with Crobat G/PokeTurns, and the occasional Gengar. This format has seen some obvious changes to the game that encourages speed. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that in many ways, we've taken one step forward and two steps back. I just don't understand where the card creators are going with these changes to the game - changes that have the potential to conflict with our very own understanding of Spirit of the Game (unless, of course, the Japanese have a very different take on "Spirit of the Game"). Let me explain...

I personally feel it to be an odd paradox that the card creators make cards that are able to "donk" so easily. It's hard to live up to the "Spirit of the Game" in the way we play when our very decks can suck the fun out of the game by creating game scenarios in which everything's decided in less than 4 turns. This may not happen in every game we play, but it's certainly possible, and that to me is frightening. A few years ago, Infernape decks were popular because of their ability to donk. However, this required a Double Rainbow Energy to pull off, and since only 4 "DRE" can be played, the first-turn donk still remained a slight rarity. Not only can a first-turn donk with a Stage 2 Pokemon be pulled off with Basic Energy in this format, there's the fact that multiple decks can pull off this feat (Kingdra, Machamp, Rampardos). Additionally, other non-Stage 2 decks can pull off the first-turn donk. Throw in the decision to reprint PlusPower, the existence of Broken-Time Space, and things like PokeTurns and Crobat G, and first-turn wins gain massive potential.

 

[FLCLFANMAN]

Donks are bad for the game

I'm sure everyone's had that feeling of disgust after losing to a donk and being one turn away from using Roseanne or Bebe's to begin setting up.

Random donks (e.g. baltoy vs. a cherrim) happens and is unfortunate but rare

INTENTIONAL DONKS (e.g Sableye, Kingdra, and Macheap) are TERRIBLE for the game since it promotes bad play and little skill. This problem is only going to get worse after we lose Unown G.

 

[A_Noob]

It's going to be your problem if YOU open with only one basic and lose your chance at words because of it...

That would suck. ExampleWin this game and you get an invite to worlds)You draw 1 basic they get champ and take out first turn. I would be so mad.

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

Intresting Poll.

Sableye I don't mind, It's nice to get him every once in a while in a game. But Kingdra and Machamp... They just wreck the whole point of a good fun game. Also any body can play the deck. I built this deck and after a day or two It got SO boring. I guess If you give Kingdra Mesprits Super scoop up crobat and Skuntank its a lot more funner.

I think Kingdra isn't focused on the donk anymore and its now more focused on Mesprits and stuff.

But Macheap on the other hand. It really is taking the whole 'Fun' idea away from you.

Overall it's just Macheap that makes my angry.

 

[Shaymin Of The Skies]

I say, destroy all donks!

 

[afstandopleren]

I think Kingdra isn't focused on the donk anymore and its now more focused on Mesprits and stuff.

I'm sorry but which part of Horsey, Candy, Kingdra, Water Energy, Dragon Pump with 2 discard makes it less focused on Donking and less annoying by adding Mesprits & stuff?:nonono:

 

[Phazon Elite]

Yeah, just so happens that the Senior Division has to use the same exact cards you Master players do. So guess what! We play the same decks you guys play. There are just as many donks in the Senior Division as there are in the Master Division.

I'm tired of you walking around like you're the bestest best of the best because you're older than us.

Maybe your community college education is superior to my 9th grade education, and maybe the Master players' brains are a little more strategic, but it's just as hard for any one person to pull down an event in their appropriate age division as it is for you.

I get donked, you get donked. We both don't like it.

That doesn't mean that you're better than us because you're older. There's a girl who's like really young (I don't remember how old, like 5 or something) and see got like a 155 on the IQ test, Einstein got like a 160-something. But let me guess, because you're older than her, you're smarter, too?

You throw the phrase, "You're a Senior," around like it's a derogatory term. I wonder if the game could survive if the Senior and Junior players weren't here to buy cards. Then there wouldn't even be a Master Division. Hmmm..... Seems we're kind of.... Important. Huh?

Looks like someone just got served a truth sandwich with a slice of humble pie.

God, I am so glad I'm past the stage he's at . . .

Anyway, moving on:

I mean hello, doesn't Machamp just scream, "RARE CANDY ME, I'M A STAGE 2 AND I ONLY TAKE ONE ENERGY TO TOTALLY KILL YOUR OPPONENT!!!!!"?

Sigged. Totally killing my opponent is just, just great.

I personally love where the format is going. The speed is just fantastic, and the entire format would be great if only the donk issues would be resolved. That's seriously all it would take for me to fall in love with this game again. Heart.

 

[baby mario]

I'm sorry but which part of Horsey, Candy, Kingdra, Water Energy, Dragon Pump with 2 discard makes it less focused on Donking and less annoying by adding Mesprits & stuff?:nonono:

Kingdra with AMU tech IS less focused on donking. A donk Kingdra plays Unown R, Pokedex, Pokedrawer, Victory Medal, etc. etc. to try and get the donk at all costs. Kingdra/AMU tech does not get the T1 Kingdra/PlusPower anything like as often, but has a much better long game strategy

Can Kingdra/AMU still donk? Sure it can, but the deck is built to win more by swarming and keeping up the attrition of 60 + 20 every turn while stopping opponent's Powers and increasing the Energy costs of SP/Basic decks.

There's more to Kingdra than just donking, which is why I don't mind it so much.

 

[afstandopleren]

Here is the thing: If you play a card that can Donk, YOU WILL DONK WITH IT. Period. So what, that it has extra cards to increase it's mid and late game potential? You keep screwing over basics with -60HP BECAUSE YOU CAN and very likely will as nothing stops you from doing it but you.

I have yet to see a person playing a donk deck that waited for his/her opponent to set up and not go for the T1/T2 win.

 

[pokemomof2]

I have only been playing for less than a year. I am in the Masters division. I know there are lots of players who have been playing for years and understand the game better than I do. I do understand that cards you draw are at random and are based mostly on luck and how the deck was built. Mulligans and starting with one pokemon are bound to happen, resulting in bad starts and losing the game early. That part of the game does not upset me. What upsets me is the decks that are built for T1/T2 donks. To me, this takes away the fun of playing. It takes away from being able to strategize your next move, because there will not be one. It takes away the learning aspect of which cards work best together in a deck and against various matchups.

I played at states and regionals. I enjoyed the game more when the match lasted longer. If I lost, it was because I was unable to draw the cards needed. If I lost early, it was because I had a bad start. But to lose by T2 because of donking just wasn't any fun for me. I am unable to improve my skill as a player this way. And I choose not to run net decks for several reasons:

1. majority of players play them.
2. new players playing these decks may not grasp the concept of the metagame.
3. by building different decks, it allows me to learn more about the cards and their synergy.

So, I will end here because I can rant longer. But here is my opionion on the way the game is at the moment.

 

[XxMarcTx]

Some gotta win, some gotta lose, goodtime charlie's got the blues
and bye the bye anyone have ideas on how many sets we are losing after august???

 

[nnaann]

Here is the thing: If you play a card that can Donk, YOU WILL DONK WITH IT. Period. So what, that it has extra cards to increase it's mid and late game potential? You keep screwing over basics with -60HP BECAUSE YOU CAN and very likely will as nothing stops you from doing it but you.

I have yet to see a person playing a donk deck that waited for his/her opponent to set up and not go for the T1/T2 win.

Lol, of course a Kingdra deck with AMU techs/ Galatic stuff will donk if it can. The point being made is - the deck build is not focused on the donk. Drawer/Handy 910is/Victory Medal/ Unown R are not maxed out which means it decreases the odds of a T1 Kingdra.

By taking out all those speed cards for stuff like SSU, Mespirit, Crobat G etc and increasing the late game power, you decrease the odds of a donk.

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

Here is the thing: If you play a card that can Donk, YOU WILL DONK WITH IT. Period. So what, that it has extra cards to increase it's mid and late game potential? You keep screwing over basics with -60HP BECAUSE YOU CAN and very likely will as nothing stops you from doing it but you.

I have yet to see a person playing a donk deck that waited for his/her opponent to set up and not go for the T1/T2 win.

Lol of course it will donk every once in a while its more the fact that the chances are decreased.

With Speedra it goes like this...


AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING BAD
Then it gets really weak.

With this type of Kingdra its not as good in the first few turns as speedra but its more balanced through out the game. But the price you pay is decreasing the turn one.

Kingdra can barely turn one anymore due to G decks so now its just not as focused on the donk. You don't play Drawer + Handy 910's Victory Medal you play Super Scoop up Crobat Skuntank Spriritomb and four BTS.

 

[OllieK]

They nees to make a ban list like yuugeoh