Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

TCG rules change with release of X/Y...?

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Just a reminder, the reason Pokémon Reversal was "only an issue" with Junk Arm seems largely because that was the first time it was the best option we had to disrupt the Bench. It debuted alongside a reprinted Warp Point in Expedition, plus as that set came out during Neon Modified, we still had Double Gust. While it was sometimes the only game in town in the interim, that was for only part of a format: then we'd get Pow! Hand Extension or a PokéBlow+ or a deck that could snipe the Bench hard enough to 2HKO anything and OHKO most things, or a Pokémon with a Gust of Wind-like effect.

Formats dominated by big, Basic Pokémon that had access to significant damage boosting cards and Energy first/second turn Energy acceleration are either extremely old (pre-Modified) or relatively recent (pretty much BW and later sets).
 
I assume that turn-ending effects will also be unusable on the first turn, along with attacks. I think Beach is the only thing in Modified that would qualify, though.

Why on earth would you assume that??
 
Also I scratch my head at people getting upset at Sycamore, they're obviously trying to make it a standard, and there's no way that Juniper is getting another printing since she isn't in XY. It's a simple replacement nothing more, not much to get upset about.

while I agree with this statement, they could have waited until say 3rd set to introduce this card? The space could have been used for a different supporters/etc. Heck, I would agree with Otaku's statement of just making a staple supporter called "Professor" and just change the picture "season to season"......

that aside, I'm both happy and upset on the first turn rule change - while it's good for the format with the huge possibly donkfests, it's a tad saddening on some set up attacks like call for family.....but I'm more happy than upset on this change.

as for catcher, I'm like most and think a 2+ card discard cost or even a "prize rule" on it [as in, you don't take a prize if you KO the defending this turn].....but I'm also happy on the nerf none-the-less. I personally think that this will bring some interesting new twists on current decks. The only thing I'm wary on this is what may come with X/Y
 
To the people complaining about the first turn rule...

Really? This is something the game has needed ever since the no trainers rule was removed in the first place. Sure, it's not optimal, but there HAS to be a disadvantage going first. Having the 100% advantage when going first just adds stupid luck to the game. And damage isn't the only issue; call for family (which is rarely used nowadays anyway but w/e) t1 gives you a gigantic advantage over your opponent. Now we have a way to balance the first turn; the player going first will get evolutions and attachments first, and the player going second will potentially have a damage lead or an easier time setting up. The point is to make it even both ways; and while it doesn't accomplish the job fully, it's 10,000x better than what we have right now.
 
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I welcome the change to Pokemon Catcher with open arms. Why it was ever printed is beyond me. Gust of Wind was a mistake when it was printed. Everyone could see that, so why bring it back? This is the way Pokemon should be, being able to build up your strongest monsters safely on the bench before going to town on the opponent. Evolutions will once again be playable as people have said. Though I guess they can't nerf Genesect's built-in catcher :(. (Why did they nerf rare candy, grrr.)

The no-attack for player going first is interesting, I guess a step in the right direction. It was nice when the player going first couldn't draw a card or play a trainer since the player going 2nd is always at a major disadvantage. I guess this will get rid of "drop a dce on tornadus ex, drop a stadium, ko for the game".
 
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while I agree with this statement, they could have waited until say 3rd set to introduce this card? The space could have been used for a different supporters/etc. Heck, I would agree with Otaku's statement of just making a staple supporter called "Professor" and just change the picture "season to season"......

Two things. First ever since the BW has started the cards have noticeable been referencing the video games a lot more, making the transition from one to the other easier. Cards like Warp Point and Night Maintenance have been replaced by actual items in the games, and supporters have since been strictly a character like "Cheren" instead of "Professor Oak's New Theory." This strengthens the relation to the games, and simply naming it 'Professor' eliminates that connection.

Second the first release of XY material and including stuff like Professor Sycamore is more of a Marketing reason than playability. Sure they could've waited to release it until later, but the including the professor in the first set is sort of a tradition.
 
Two things. First ever since the BW has started the cards have noticeable been referencing the video games a lot more, making the transition from one to the other easier. Cards like Warp Point and Night Maintenance have been replaced by actual items in the games, and supporters have since been strictly a character like "Cheren" instead of "Professor Oak's New Theory." This strengthens the relation to the games, and simply naming it 'Professor' eliminates that connection.

Second the first release of XY material and including stuff like Professor Sycamore is more of a Marketing reason than playability. Sure they could've waited to release it until later, but the including the professor in the first set is sort of a tradition.

I still think they could have gotten away with calling the card "Pokémon Professor." We have things like Team Plasma Grunt, and we used to have things like Pokémon Collector and Fisherman.

I do wonder if this means that effects like Call of Family and Signs of Evolution will become turn-ending abilities instead so that you can still utilize them on turn one. I'd also love to see Call Energy get a rerelease with these new rules.
 
While I like the no attack thing, I think they need to say "you can't do any attacks that do damage or cause status effects".
So we could use stuff like Collect to draw.

Catcher, I don't really care about it.
I didn't have any for a long stretch of time, so going back to not using them won't really affect me.

Juniper/Sycamore makes sense only if you put the rule right on the card.
"If you play this card, you can't have the card Professor Juniper in your deck".
Though personally it would be more interesting to make it like the old Oak/Rowan card.
IE shuffle your hand into your deck & draw 6/7 cards.

Assuming that N won't be in X/Y.
 
To all the people saying Flippy Catcher is better than current Catcher, I pose the question -

Which is better for the health of the game? "He played his 4 (Current) Catcher better than I played my 4 (Current) Catcher, so I lost," or "He flipped four heads on his (New) Catcher, I flipped four tails on my (New) Catcher, so I lost."

Is skilled playing of a very powerful card worse for the game than relying on luck to flip better than your opponent? *ahem* REEEEEEALLLLLYYYYY?!

Catcher is very likely too strong a card. But it is leaps and bounds healthier for the game than Reversal.
 
^ to add to that, the current catcher is good for XY-On assuming the design the cards with balance in mind. Seems they are making the rule change to please BW-On and I dont see this working for the XY-On cards. Of course assuming they design the cards with balance in mind. The new professor makes it seem like they wont.
 
I'm not sure if it's been said already, but if the new catcher text doesn't drive up the price on Genesect Ex, not much will.
 
To all the people saying Flippy Catcher is better than current Catcher, I pose the question -

Which is better for the health of the game? "He played his 4 (Current) Catcher better than I played my 4 (Current) Catcher, so I lost," or "He flipped four heads on his (New) Catcher, I flipped four tails on my (New) Catcher, so I lost."

Is skilled playing of a very powerful card worse for the game than relying on luck to flip better than your opponent? *ahem* REEEEEEALLLLLYYYYY?!

Catcher is very likely too strong a card. But it is leaps and bounds healthier for the game than Reversal.

The luck part is annoying, I admit (though to some extent, that's true now...he had 4 catchers, I had 3 cause one was prized), but I am glad to see old Catcher go and the only method I've seen proposed that isn't luck based doesn't work. A "discard two cards to Catcher" actually HELPS some decks and at the very least is useful for thinning in all decks. So its not necessarily a cost.

The two scenarios you described aren't the only two possible scenarios, and I don't think the latter will be the scenario in a Reversal-instead-of-Catcher format.

More likely we'll see::
1. He played his 4 (current) Catcher better than I played my 4 (current) Catcher, so I lost
become
2. He played 2 (new) Catcher in his deck, while I played two other cards and...[the rest depends on how well you used your two slots].

And in those two scenarios, I think 2 is healthier for the game than 1.
 
To all the people saying Flippy Catcher is better than current Catcher, I pose the question -

Which is better for the health of the game? "He played his 4 (Current) Catcher better than I played my 4 (Current) Catcher, so I lost," or "He flipped four heads on his (New) Catcher, I flipped four tails on my (New) Catcher, so I lost."

Is skilled playing of a very powerful card worse for the game than relying on luck to flip better than your opponent? *ahem* REEEEEEALLLLLYYYYY?!

Catcher is very likely too strong a card. But it is leaps and bounds healthier for the game than Reversal.

Except unlike Catcher, Reversal has never been an auto-include in decks in any format. Even with Junk Arm you didn't necessarily run the full 4 Reversals.

Changing Catcher to be Reversal makes it a niche pick rather than an auto-include, which is healthy.
 
To all the people saying Flippy Catcher is better than current Catcher, I pose the question

Respectfully, you're looking at it wrong. No one is saying that a Flippy Catcher is a better card than a current Catcher. But it is better for the overall game we're playing, in terms of allowing more deck creativity, and games lasting longer.

Dragging up from the bench is a "game changing" effect as someone once explained it to me during the era of Pokeblower+. At that time, you only need to change the game once to start going in your favor. Luxchomp dominated because it could do it a couple of turns in a row. With Pokemon Catcher, it goes back and forth several times. And it is fair! Both players could put 4 of these cards in their deck. It's the rules of the game.

Players wanted Catcher gone from the format after this year, via rotation. But it was reprinted in Plasma Blast, guaranteeing it legal for 2014-2015. Turning it into a flippy card accomplishes the same as making it "gone". Sure, some people will still play it in their decks, but that is a risk they are willing to take. 50% of the time the card will still fail, and the card slot will have been wasted. I predict people will immediately replace 4 Pokemon Catcher with 4 Escape Rope, and start constructing from there. The game rules just change, and most people will say it's for the better.
 
Respectfully, you're looking at it wrong.


At the risk of being mistaken for snark... right back at you. ;)

No one is saying that a Flippy Catcher is a better card than a current Catcher. But it is better for the overall game we're playing, in terms of allowing more deck creativity, and games lasting longer.


...and then they fail to present a sound argument for that being true, hence the frustration.
Pokémon Catcherisn't making things worse right now, it is making things better. It isn't complicated; fast attacking, hard hitting Pokémon in play before either player can Evolve (let alone the player that went second) makes it so that only the most overpowered Pokémon see play (Evolution or Basic). The majority of the card pool was filler that was clearly not intended to be competitive but to meet set quota requirements.

Is it possible that the "new" cards will make things work? Yes, but we had that same hope the last- what? half-dozen formats? - and it was dashed. With the existing card pool, this might swap some decks around in the standings, but very few that aren't already competitive will be elevated; they lose Pokémon Catcher for taking out things like Blastoise as well. Think it is bad when you've got a current deck that can actually score the 140 point hit for a OHKO? Now instead of a new deck having a chance of burning two Pokémon Catcher to try and take out a Blastoise (already expensive and prone to failing due to healing or a replacement), they'll need to do that and get two "heads".


Dragging up from the bench is a "game changing" effect as someone once explained it to me during the era of Pokeblower+. At that time, you only need to change the game once to start going in your favor. Luxchomp dominated because it could do it a couple of turns in a row. With Pokemon Catcher, it goes back and forth several times. And it is fair! Both players could put 4 of these cards in their deck. It's the rules of the game.


Whoa! You lost me. Several effects are "game changing" under the correct circumstances. The thing is, they can also be easily wasted. The effect of Pokémon Catcher can be undone by retreating or using another card's effect to get the just promoted Active back to the Bench. In a format where you cannot score an easy OHKO (I'll get to that), imagine what a Deluge deck would be like: "So... you're going to burn an Item to bring up my Blastoise, which I'll easily get back to my Bench the next turn. You'll half KO it, but I'll have time to begin setting up my next one or heal it before you can do that again, even if it is the very next turn. All the while, my main attacker isn't being hurt at all."

The reason that is rarely an issue now is because of the overly powerful and overly fast attackers of this format, sometimes coupled with Weakness or something like Hypnotoxic Laser/Virbank City Gym. You can also argue those things are fine and it is the ridiculously low HP scores: without restoring to the effects of an attack or Ability video game Hit Points, Defense, and Special Defense must all be represented by TCG HP... but even before that most cards get stuck with HP scores they'd only have on the lower end.

Players wanted Catcher gone from the format after this year, via rotation. But it was reprinted in Plasma Blast, guaranteeing it legal for 2014-2015.


Some players wanted it gone, and so far none have given me a good enough reason now that it isn't painfully rare. These are the players that start with false assumptions like "Pokémon Catcher is preventing me from running my favorite Evolution!", which ignores that their favorite Evolution happens to have just received the "filler" treatment, clearly not designed to competitive and that removing Pokémon Catcher won't actually help a thing because said Pokémon will still be crushed by what remains, barring radical changes introduced by the X&Y cards (though the first turn rule change will have an impact as well).


Turning it into a flippy card accomplishes the same as making it "gone". Sure, some people will still play it in their decks, but that is a risk they are willing to take. 50% of the time the card will still fail, and the card slot will have been wasted. I predict people will immediately replace 4 Pokemon Catcher with 4 Escape Rope, and start constructing from there. The game rules just change, and most people will say it's for the better.

Besides the fact that player's not making claims they can't substantiate did not want it gone, you are ignoring the history of the game. Flip based cards are not universally ignored. Historically, they fall into two camps with just a few exceptions: effects so potent that they are played anyway and those that are ignored. Focus Band only worked on a successful coin flip, but it's effect still makes it perhaps the best Pokémon Tool ever printed. Super Scoop Up is closer to the rare "middle" ground; many times it has been completely ignored, but a few times it has been an important card in decks.

Pokémon Reversal will likely skew one way or the other. I don't know if decks will just adapt to it failing half the time and keep running it at a full four count or if the power vacuum it creates will (as usually happens with Pokémon Reversal) just elevate the decks that don't need it to the top... but the least likely is that it will significantly diversify the format while increasing the amount of tournament viable decks. I base this on my own analysis, which includes a good deal of past experience.
 
I like your statement that Pokemon Reversal will skew one way or the other, in terms of players adopting it. I don't claim the format will diversify in that suddenly 10 decks will be viable for Tier 1...only that more complicated deck set up strategies will emerge. Sophisticated plays with Escape Rope will be devised. People will pay more attention to snipe attacks. Walls will be used again. Red Signal will be more widely utilized, as well as Garbodor to block it. All because people don't have 4 chances in a deck to automatically drag up a benched Pokemon.


Pokémon Catcherisn't making things worse right now, it is making things better. It isn't complicated; fast attacking, hard hitting Pokémon in play before either player can Evolve (let alone the player that went second) makes it so that only the most overpowered Pokémon see play (Evolution or Basic). The majority of the card pool was filler that was clearly not intended to be competitive but to meet set quota requirements.


I absolutely agree that the last two years were focused on making a metagame that was focused on heavy-hitting EX's, and Pokemon Catcher enabled that. With these rules changes, we will start to move towards a new format. Without knowing what cards are coming (mega evolution?) we just don't know if it will be better or worse yet, but personally I have faith that the game designers do know and they are making good choices.


Let me ask you a true question: in your experience, before Pokemon Catcher was released, were players asking year after year for Gust of Wind to be reprinted? My impression is no, it was too powerful. That's why I can't get behind any argument that suggests that it should have remained as-is for the next two years.
 
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