The deck(s) that won Worlds discussion....
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SuperWooper
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SomethingElse said:
Yeah, but some of us don't want to hear about it. Jason made Top 16 and that's something to be really proud of. If the Japanese did cheat, just keep telling yourself that you'll walk away from this game with more than they'll ever be able to.
Except that trophy. ;P
No, but seriously, I mean, you can three-stack shuffle their deck and they are basically screwed, right? Since you can shuffle afterwards, all they can do is cut. I'm not saying Japan did weave or didn't weave their decks, but I think they're deserving of some respect.
Instead of dwelling on the past, let's look towards the future: Worlds 2005, and beat Japan next year. Go USA. *Waves tiny American flag around in one hand and blows a noisemaker with the other.* We had some AWESOME players represent us in Top 32. Colin Moll, Chris Fulop, Adam Capriola (that's the right spelling, right Plaid?), Drew Holton and many more (I'm so sorry if I forgot your name, you guys!) represented us in Top 32 in 15+ alone. Let's celebrate that instead of accusing the Japanese of cheating, whether it's true, or whether it's not.
Maybe you could start some kind of petition or something to have judges supervise shuffling if you're this ticked off about the Japanese shuffling style. Or have judges shuffle decks before matches. But this isn't going to happen, it would take too much time. You can't prove that the Japanese wove their decks, because they'll always deny it, and Nintendo isn't going to take action against them: THEY'RE JAPAN!
All I am saying is that it won't do us any good to complain. Let's look towards Worlds 2005 as an oppurtunity to win the title of the greatest Pokemon playing country in the World!
*Mudkip, Freddy K and GrandmaJoner all attack me simultaneously*
Did I say USA? I meant Mexico. NO WAIT! England. NO WAIT! Canada!
This is probably weird, me being the nice guy *(oh, the irony), but I'm a little sick of hearing all the Japan cheated stuff, because your complaining won't do any good. No action will be taken against Japan no matter how hard you whine, 'cuz it's over. Let's look forward, not back.
And let's kick some Japan butt next year!
~Wooper
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SomethingElse
Active Member
i always did shuffle, but if most of the people that play/played at worlds just cut, still leaving their deck stacked...
Pooka
Master Trainer
These people did not cheat. It's not in their nature to cheat. They outplayed us and used a deck we thought was awful, then shocked everyone. People that say the Japanese cheated missed the fact that they were AMAZING players and made no mistakes the entire tournament. Yamato went undefeated in three days. That is simply unbelievable, and he deserved to win.
Their decks are much more consistent than ours. They CANNOT get a bad start with their deck. It's amazing. The thing is, all of our decks are based on getting evolutions out and attacking. Their deck is based on getting out BASICS and attacking, which is why they can swarm more than us and outspeed us. I give them all my respect.
Their decks are much more consistent than ours. They CANNOT get a bad start with their deck. It's amazing. The thing is, all of our decks are based on getting evolutions out and attacking. Their deck is based on getting out BASICS and attacking, which is why they can swarm more than us and outspeed us. I give them all my respect.
I can't believe this. Too much pride here, people need to except that they won, and most likely didn't try to cheat at worlds. Their decks were simply solid and everyone didn't expect those decks. They didn't need to cheat to win, they had their strategies and Team Magma just sets up really fast. Also it was not luck, they made it all the way through the tournament facing many types of decks and still came out the victors.
People need to be good sports about the whole thing and instead of accusing other players of cheating and their decks suck or whatever, need to stop and admit that they lost fair and square 2/3.
EDIT>
Very nicely said Pooka. We all need to get back to the basics of Pokemon, utalizing the basics and stage 1 evolutions, we are all too focused on the main hitters and if we don't get that one out fast enough we lose. I'm glad the Japanese won, they deserved to win, and it has opened many eyes.
People need to be good sports about the whole thing and instead of accusing other players of cheating and their decks suck or whatever, need to stop and admit that they lost fair and square 2/3.
EDIT>
Very nicely said Pooka. We all need to get back to the basics of Pokemon, utalizing the basics and stage 1 evolutions, we are all too focused on the main hitters and if we don't get that one out fast enough we lose. I'm glad the Japanese won, they deserved to win, and it has opened many eyes.
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HoloDragonMaster
New Member
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Physics Squirrel
Active Member
I probably could have done well against the magma decks, but I didn't make the top 32 cut. I had crap luck all day. But Fulop did make 2nd place with InSaNiTy
ukpokemonpro
New Member
Why is nobody prepared to say well done, it doesn't suck that the Japanese won, heck it wouldn't have sucked if a Dutch player had won.. can we not congratulate them for winning?
And does anyone know what was in the deck a list please...
And does anyone know what was in the deck a list please...
To the best of my knowledge the deck contained:
Team Magma's Groudon
Team Magma's Camerupt
Team Magma's Claydol
Team Magma's Hideout
Mr. Briney's Compassion
TV Reporter
Dark Energies
Magma Energies
and some contained Zangoose
Just insert typical deck stuff in there and you pretty much got it.
Team Magma's Groudon
Team Magma's Camerupt
Team Magma's Claydol
Team Magma's Hideout
Mr. Briney's Compassion
TV Reporter
Dark Energies
Magma Energies
and some contained Zangoose
Just insert typical deck stuff in there and you pretty much got it.
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Tormentedsoul14
Member
What's the point of having camerupt in there without fire energies????
Also I agree mudkip (i think thats his name) they have time to tech against the decks they are like 2 sets ahead of us.
~Tormented~
Also I agree mudkip (i think thats his name) they have time to tech against the decks they are like 2 sets ahead of us.
~Tormented~
Physics Squirrel
Active Member
you do play fire energy as well as fighting presumeable. But the reason for Camerupt is that he gets any type of basic energy from the discard pile and attaches it to himself allowing Claydol to move it around to your attackers.
BTW, IMO, Swampert beats Magma.
However I didn't have the opportunity to make top 32 (and win =P) because 3 games I started with Suicune ex. Other world class players like Michael Pramawat and YJ also lost on luck in the first 3-4 rounds
BTW, IMO, Swampert beats Magma.
However I didn't have the opportunity to make top 32 (and win =P) because 3 games I started with Suicune ex. Other world class players like Michael Pramawat and YJ also lost on luck in the first 3-4 rounds
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I'm very disappointed that a few people on this board would degrade themselves to insulting the japanese players. They won, fair and square, and nobody can argue that. I knew by the time I heard that Japan sweeped Worlds, that people would be making excuses. Because frankly, there are some really arrogant people on these boards that feel that they are the best and that they know everything about the game. Well, you know what? Japan showed us another way to win, not big damage, but speed damage.
OT: I remember posting a while back regarding how I felt the speed of the setup was more important to winning matches than the big damage. I guess I was on the right track afterall.
I'm happy that the japanese players did sweep Worlds. I feel that they were not arrogant, and they did not accuse the americans of cheating, and in my opinion, deserved to seep worlds. I feel this is a sign that the arrogant players in the US and other countries around the globe need to calm down, not bash a deck before they have tested it fully and explore new ideas. I feel that everyone can grow from this experience, and I know I will try to better myself by next Worlds. All respect to the japanese, they are great players, but I want to see the US take Worlds next year, which I have heard will be in Japan.
No reason to use slander, let's grow as a player instead.
OT: I remember posting a while back regarding how I felt the speed of the setup was more important to winning matches than the big damage. I guess I was on the right track afterall.
I'm happy that the japanese players did sweep Worlds. I feel that they were not arrogant, and they did not accuse the americans of cheating, and in my opinion, deserved to seep worlds. I feel this is a sign that the arrogant players in the US and other countries around the globe need to calm down, not bash a deck before they have tested it fully and explore new ideas. I feel that everyone can grow from this experience, and I know I will try to better myself by next Worlds. All respect to the japanese, they are great players, but I want to see the US take Worlds next year, which I have heard will be in Japan.
No reason to use slander, let's grow as a player instead.
Dark Legendary Master
Active Member
Stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I might not have made it to worlds, and I probably would have been the end of Washington's reaign from last year if I did. But I will not stand by idly while our neighbors across the sea are insulted and accused of cheating. This has to stop NOW! USA lost fair and square. All we can do is look towards next year. There is always next year. Standing around and complaining and insulting and accusing our neighbors across the sea will not change what happened. NOTHING can change the past. But we can change our future. And complaining constantly will only blind us to the unexpected next year. Why don't you people stop now and listen to what you're saying for at least 2 seconds?! We all need to just shut all of that up and look towards next year. And now with a format change atop of us, we have an all new future to look forward to. Instead of mopping and insulting and accusing our neighbors, why don't you work on your decks for next year. As the saying in the TV show's new theme song says, we gotta start all over again!
We have a new year upon us. And with a new year comes new chances. Don't screw it up by just standing around and complaining about the past. Embrace our future. As my own little saying goes, The Power of The sea Lies within. Look within and you will find your own answers. Until then good day.
I might not have made it to worlds, and I probably would have been the end of Washington's reaign from last year if I did. But I will not stand by idly while our neighbors across the sea are insulted and accused of cheating. This has to stop NOW! USA lost fair and square. All we can do is look towards next year. There is always next year. Standing around and complaining and insulting and accusing our neighbors across the sea will not change what happened. NOTHING can change the past. But we can change our future. And complaining constantly will only blind us to the unexpected next year. Why don't you people stop now and listen to what you're saying for at least 2 seconds?! We all need to just shut all of that up and look towards next year. And now with a format change atop of us, we have an all new future to look forward to. Instead of mopping and insulting and accusing our neighbors, why don't you work on your decks for next year. As the saying in the TV show's new theme song says, we gotta start all over again!
We have a new year upon us. And with a new year comes new chances. Don't screw it up by just standing around and complaining about the past. Embrace our future. As my own little saying goes, The Power of The sea Lies within. Look within and you will find your own answers. Until then good day.
To end all this about stacking...If that's the case, than losing is still our fault, since based on how you observe their stacking you can shuffle differently. Bridge, three pile, whatever counters what they did.
Stacking isn't at all the issue, it's the coins. They all used paper coins which we've proven flip somewhere between 60/40 and 70/30 in favor of heads. I was under the impression that those were illegal, anyway. I've been told to stop using the WotC paper coins at things like Gym Challenges locally.
Granted, any player has a right to use their opponent's randomizer, but most good Blaze lists don't run Reversal. The Japanese decks stand more to gain from unbalanced randomization, so both players using a paper coin still benefits them more.
This kind of thing really ought to be regulated. Either switch the game over to dice or outlaw the paper coins and start using something like, I dunno, a quarter.
With that said, there's nothing we can do about it now, so I guess it's reasonable to give props to the Japanese for playing well since it wasn't only coins that got them there. All I'm saying is that's a significant piece. Colin lost both of his top eight games on 7 of 8 Reversal flips coming up heads to KO all his evolving basics.
Stacking isn't at all the issue, it's the coins. They all used paper coins which we've proven flip somewhere between 60/40 and 70/30 in favor of heads. I was under the impression that those were illegal, anyway. I've been told to stop using the WotC paper coins at things like Gym Challenges locally.
Granted, any player has a right to use their opponent's randomizer, but most good Blaze lists don't run Reversal. The Japanese decks stand more to gain from unbalanced randomization, so both players using a paper coin still benefits them more.
This kind of thing really ought to be regulated. Either switch the game over to dice or outlaw the paper coins and start using something like, I dunno, a quarter.
With that said, there's nothing we can do about it now, so I guess it's reasonable to give props to the Japanese for playing well since it wasn't only coins that got them there. All I'm saying is that's a significant piece. Colin lost both of his top eight games on 7 of 8 Reversal flips coming up heads to KO all his evolving basics.
Dark Umbreon
New Member
Prime said:
Remember that this was also the very same reason haymakers and denial decks took over unlimited in a storm. The common saying that "speed kills" holds true in various games. It does not matter if an stage two Pokemon can do more than hundret damage if the other side can knock out the basic before the stage two even has a chance to enter play.
The very same reason made hand denial haymakers more than awesome in unlimited. They basically discarded the Pokemon and energies from the others hand or deck which left the few ones left with less defense and offense capacities than these decks needed.
Just a view cents to take into consideration.
Articjedi
Active Member
You know, people, it is acceptable to shuffle your opponent's deck before the match starts. Of course, they are still allowed to cut, but you killed any stacking with a long round of shuffling. You are also allowed to ask for a change in randomizer if you don't think that the coin is completely random. It's perfectly acceptable.
I didn't see the deck coming, no one on this side of the pacific, or atlantic, if you see it that way, seriously saw a team magma deck winning worlds. People will naturally rationalize any shortcomings they had, such as accusing other players of cheating and so on and so on, that's a psycological fact.
If anything we have to get ready for next year. Quit complaining and start designing something for worlds next year (I heard a rumor that's it's in seattle again).
I didn't see the deck coming, no one on this side of the pacific, or atlantic, if you see it that way, seriously saw a team magma deck winning worlds. People will naturally rationalize any shortcomings they had, such as accusing other players of cheating and so on and so on, that's a psycological fact.
If anything we have to get ready for next year. Quit complaining and start designing something for worlds next year (I heard a rumor that's it's in seattle again).
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