"The Fishing Engine" Breakdown of How it works *UPDATED* 1st Post

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by MrMeches, Dec 18, 2007.

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  1. MrMeches

    MrMeches New Member

    "The Fishing Engine"

    Well with some players attempting and using variations of this engine, I thought I would post a little synopsis of where it came from and how it works generally speaking.

    First the Original Fishing Engine: (Core Cards)

    3 Great Ball
    3 Master Ball
    3 Dusk Ball
    4 PokeNav
    3 Pokedex
    4 Professor Birch

    Below is the Actual Engine used with Blissey/ Sableye. 3 Top 4 (1 Seniors, 2 Masters) appearances and 1 Championship (Masters)

    TRAINERS 31

    3 Professor Birch
    3 TV Reporter
    1 Steven’s Advice

    1 Plus Power
    1 Strength Charm
    2 Battle Frontier
    2 Night Maintenance
    2 Warp Point

    "The Fishing Engine"
    3 Dusk Ball
    3 Master Ball
    3 Great Ball
    4 PokeNav
    3 Pokedex

    That is all there is to it! Simple right, well the cards yes, but the strategy to it is complex and can make some scratch their head and wonder why that card. It is a very interesting way of thinning the deck quickly to create a higher probability you will either draw into what you need or “fish” out what you need.

    Great Ball is the most simple of the deck to use; it is a 1 for 1 situation. You know you have Basics in there, you know you will start with at least one of them, so you have a chance to get 3 more. I say chance as at times some will be prized (at one point, I had 3 Chansey prized so there went the farm!); but this is just a random scenario that can’t be stopped. It happens, so we move on and do the best we can! The trick here is to make the decision to save at least one Great Ball, if possible, for Mid Game when having to reset your bench. It is tricky on when and how and thus takes some playing and experience to get it down just right!

    Master Ball/ Dusk Ball seem to be the most discussed cards in the deck. Why six and why at all?? Thin and snatch my friends, thin and snatch! In a perfect world all 6 would hit, but on average 4 will hit. These two cards are played as a combo set up with PokeNav and Pokedex and are nice to abuse the situation plus burn your hand down.

    First Combo, PokeNav & Master Ball. If you look at the top 3 and have an energy and a Pokemon there, the obvious choice is to Nav the energy and then Master Ball the Pokemon thus thinning 4 cards in one turn from your deck and hand and you still haven’t placed an energy (which you now have) or evolved/played a Pokemon (which you now have). This thinning of the deck is crucial to then engine’s success. In order to ensure “top decking” and getting to the critical cards, the deck has to be thinned out quickly. PokeNav allows the setup of the next two turns if you don’t use the combo which can benefit a player greatly! The other option of PokeNav is the ability to see what your fixing to draw in to and deciding that you need to randomize your deck. Master/ Dusk Ball give you this option!

    Second Combo, Pokedex & Dusk Ball. This is a similar idea, but goes to the bottom of the deck. Pokedex allows you to look at the top 2 cards, take one, then put the other on the bottom. So if you get a Pokemon as one card and have a Dusk Ball, the Pokemon goes to the bottom and Dusk Ball grabs it for you! Simple as that! This works more often than not and is also another way of thinning! With cards placing things on the bottom of decks in the current format (Professor Oak’s Visit, Team Galactic’s Mars) Dusk Ball is a viable option for players to use. Pokedex with Dusk Ball was a natural choice as it just works well with each other, much like PokeNav and Master Ball.

    Professor Birch, or in my area, Master Professor Birch as he signs so many for his players when asked, “Birch is my Daddy” (North Texas joke)!! With this card and the amount of turn over in your hand with playing so many regular trainers, Birch is the best call!! You can thin your hand down and then reload for an average of four cards. Birch can also be combo played with PokeNav as you can setup your draw or decide to Master/Dusk Ball and randomize it. Birch is the main draw card and with so much thinning going on, it will usually hit what you want or give you more options of “Fishing” again!

    So there you have it! A simple engine to build, but a complex one to play and master. It is definitely not for every deck and works more consistently in Stage 1 Based decks. As long as you understand that turns tend to take some time when playing so many trainers, this deck is fast and can set up easily. There have been modifications to it depending on what you’re playing. In Blissey, Banette and Electivire, TV Reporter is used as a supplemental card for draw and discarding. Hand Control style decks use Team Galactic Mars and I would definitely consider using Team Galactic’s Wager to assist with minimizing your opponent’s hand!

    The overall idea was a brain child of mine and Adrian P on the way to Oklahoma for a CC and the name was created by Dana L after watching it at work in Garland CC (which I one with it). I wanted to play something that was new and interesting but slowed down Gardevoir and Ampharos as I knew they were played in that area. With so few Supporters in the discard, Gardy couldn’t abuse much and with most of my setup using regular trainers, Ampharos lost some of its ability to spread that extra damaging!

    I hope this clears a few things up on what and why and shows an insight as to how this engine works together! It is fun to play and is effective!

    Thanks for reading and remember SOTG!! Always!!

    ~Prof. Fish~

    Now Many people have made some alterations to this, which is great as it gives the PLAYER a choice. Remember I said these are core cards and need to be adjusted to your comfort level and play style!

    My son used a Modified Engine with his Magmortar that went like this:

    T2 Style Fishing Engine

    4 Great Ball
    4 Quick Ball
    2 Dusk Ball
    4 PokeNav
    3 Pokedex
    3 Professor Birch
    3 Professor Oak’s Visit

    This is the engine many have adopted in the Turn 2 Style Decks with the Oak’s being interchanged with Reporter, Mars or other draw! It works really well and has very similar consistency and is more comfortable with many players!! My original list has that hit or miss feature that some disliked, but when it hits, watch out!!

    Well, this is a great alternative trainer engine for people that don’t have the resources to purchase or trade for the standard Castaway, Scott, and such! I came up with it when on the way to a tourney at OK and discussed it in length with Adrian (an honorary Fish Family Member) and then realized I needed to use it as both my kids were eating up the resources like crazy!! So as usual, Dad gets to try it out! Well, by the end of the Day, it was a Top4 finish that might have gone Top2 had my Chansey not decide to go MIA in the Prizes game 3! (Great match Jordan.. ntm it was against one of the Top Players in OK and he was playing BlissCatty, ironically I still setup faster than him in Game 1) I stuck with it for Garland Cities and won against the GAG swarm… T4 3 GAG decks and my lonely Blissey!

    So all in all, this engine has seen some legs and has been adopted by many players and also has been modified a bit for each players style! Easy to do with such a simple Card Base to work from!!

    Well thanks to all that were involved in the Excitement of “The Fishing Engine” and I hope that Kabutops doesn’t scare anyone away!! It can be dealt with… but that is another Chapter!!

    ~Prof. Fish~
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  2. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Cool thread! It's an interesting way to counter Gardevior. Is that the entire trainer engine? No draw supporters? No pokemon-searching supporters? It seems really luck-based.

    I've tried out Pokedex in the past and I like it in decks that can afford the space.

    What has done well with this engine?
     
  3. MrMeches

    MrMeches New Member

    Yes and No on the Luck Base... early game, it is but midgame to lategame it becomes easier to get what you need. I edited to show this is the CORE ENGINE.

    Thanks Prime! I won Garland with my Blissey/ Sableye deck I posted.. actual list... and my son used a version of it Magmortar but altered it to put in Delcatty. He has since thinned down his Pokemon and went with more of the CORE Engine.

    Some ppl have used variants with Banette and Electivire.

    It is primarily Stage 1, however, I ma working wiht a Stage 2 version and almost have it down. A few more tweaks and it should be good to go!

    ~Prof. Fish~
     
  4. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    This works well with Banette bbut instead of master ball or dusk ball,u use quickball
     
  5. ~Blazi-King~

    ~Blazi-King~ New Member

    I know of a few other decks that are now using this engine:

    Blissey/Banette
    Banette/Lucario
    Blissey/Arcanine
    Blissey/Weavile/Absol
     
  6. (TYranitarFReak)

    (TYranitarFReak) New Member

    It's pretty good as supporters limits the cards u get a turn.

    But, gotta come up with a solution when kabutops shows up.
     
  7. Let Fire Fall

    Let Fire Fall New Member

    Yeah, Kabutops will change things no doubt.
     
  8. Charizard1987

    Charizard1987 New Member

    wow, i tried out those balls before, but eventually they don't turn up well. However, never thought that birch and pokedex, nav would go well with them. Good job:thumb:
     
  9. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    Depends on how popular it is ... but yeah. Tops could be a problem for engines like this. Then again Lati-lock, Cess, and such could free things back up.
     
  10. Kenshin's Garde

    Kenshin's Garde New Member

    where's victory medal? ;P
     
  11. edwarpy

    edwarpy New Member

    MrMeches -

    Good post, will try pokenav.

    Birch with Copycat option is cool.. Telepass can't usually abuse it when you run
    2-3 card hands and it can help keep up with Catty. Copy 12 with Master Ball
    is always much joy.

    Maybe -1 Birch, -1Dex, +2 Copycat?

    edwarpy
     
  12. MrMeches

    MrMeches New Member

    Thanks for all the responses!!

    As I said previously, these are mainly CORE CARDS and can be added to subtracted from. In my Blissey/Sableye deck, I have TVR and Steven's, but I wouldn't play that as much with a straight attacker like Magmortar as cards in the discard dont benefit to much for me!

    The reason I posted this is I had received some PMs asking about it and decided that it wasnt really a Secret to me and wanted to share the knowledge of some options that are out there with everyone. If someone takes it that one step further, great!! If someone hates it and thinks it is total n00b fodder, then great too!!

    It is just nice to have some things for newer players and some older players to try out and work with!!

    SOTG always and helping others is a bonus!! T2 variants do run Quick Ball, but some may not like that so hence the trial and error of the engine itself!! The engine I posted is a main staple for some of my decks... notice some and not all!! I realize locking yourself into one train of thought doesnt allow the creativity to come out and thus you tend to miss possible combos that are staring right in your face.

    GL to everyone on the rest of the City Season!!!

    Happy Holidays and God (or whatever your belief is) Bless us everyone!!

    ~Prof. Fish~~

    and just because... the_sniper is my hero and Birch is my Daddy!!
     
  13. Professor Elm

    Professor Elm Active Member

    Is Ape able to use this engine.
    All the balls search out Delcatty and Delcatty draws.
    I am gonna test it out.
     
  14. Adam Garcia

    Adam Garcia New Member

    seriously where is the victory medal fish?
    lol
     
  15. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    awesome, ima try this out in some my stuff.
    good read.
     
  16. MrMeches

    MrMeches New Member

    Send me some and that is where they are..:lol:

    Demetre is 0 fer on Battle Roads this season and last season. He has City Medals, but alas no victory medals.

    This is a BASE of cars to build from... I could see the value of Victory Medal in here, also an all to unplayed card could also go in here, Energy Search!:wink: It is another way ot burn a card from hand and ensure getting an Energy to play!

    I understand there could be a concern with Kabutops, and it is a HUGE one with this engine! If you play L@ti-Lock, you can toss in a mentor and taek care of that issue. But it is a Metagame situation only!

    It could work in Ape, right now I am trying out a few ideas with S2 decks. It is, at this point, working but a slight inconsistent. Tryign to fix that issue!

    Thanks to everyone that has left input and additional ideas! This is why I posted it!!

    Happy Holidays!!

    ~Prof. Fish~
     
  17. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    Yea Vicky Medal would be so nice with this cause most of the time you draw another card unless you are just cursed.
     
  18. Magic_Umbreon

    Magic_Umbreon Researching Tower Scientist, Retired

    I'd use 4 pokédex, it's just such a good card in this strategy in every way.
     
  19. thechubbss12

    thechubbss12 New Member

    Once again.. Awesome Engine fish.

    This engine can fit into almost any stage 1 deck and maybe even a stage 2 deck.
     
  20. MrMeches

    MrMeches New Member

    Take a look at Atomic Fireballs in he Deck Help Seciton... it works.. not as conisistently, but it does work well!
     
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