Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

The Mega EX Mechanic.

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pokedan24

New Member
This is the new mechanic introduced in X and Y. Basically, these are evolved forms of EXes. You get over 200 HP and some very strong (but expensive) attacks, but in order to evolve, you give up a turn. And yes, you still give up 2 prizes if they're knocked out.

Here are the two big ones, Mega Venusaur EX and Mega Blastoise EX. (http://pokebeach.com/2013/11/english-xy-cards-revealed)

Here are the EX basics they evolve from (http://pokebeach.com/2013/10/xy-tcg-set-mega-evolutions)

My thoughts: I see a lot of potential, but I’m not sure if they will break the game or anything. The problem is that they don’t have the speed that we’re all used to. Mewtwo EX is broken because you can just plop it down, attach a DCE, and do substantial damage out of nowhere. These things not only require a lot of energy, but have the HUGE downside of losing a turn when evolving. That one turn could be what an opponent needs to launch a counter attack.

As for the cards themselves

Mega Blastoise EX: The easier one to use thanks to typing. As long as you have deluge Blastoise, you can get this powered up no problem. What you get is a 220HP monster with an improved night spear. That’s essentially 180 damage for 3 energy. Even if they block the bench damage with Mr Mime, 120 for 3 is not bad in it’s own right. It’s basic, Blastoise EX, is not that strong compared to other Exes (I’m looking at you Keldeo), but I wouldn’t call it a bad card either. It could certainly hold it’s own (which is more than I can say for non EX evolving basics).

Mega Venusaur EX: This one seems a lot harder to set up. The attack is more expensive at four energy and grass lack the easy energy acceleration that water gets with Blastoise. BUT, I think crisis vine could prove to be worth setting up. If you have virbank in play, you’re doing 120 + 30 + 30 going into your turn. If your opponent doesn’t have any switching or healing cards, they will never be able to attack you. And like Blastoise, the basic of this one is pretty strong in it’s own right (it could tank with Virizion EX).

TLDR: I think they are good, strong cards, but the drawbacks will keep them from being gamebreaking (like Yveltal EX).
 
Evolutionary Soda - Ref: PokeBeach

Evolutionary Soda – Trainer
Item

Choose 1 of your Pokemon that wasn’t put into play this turn. Search your deck for a Pokemon that evolves from that Pokemon and put it on that Pokemon. Shuffle your deck afterwards. You can’t use this card on your first turn.

You can use any number of Item cards during your turn.
Click to expand...

This is probably going to be a 4of if you're going to run Megas (or any other evolutions).
 
I do not believe the new "Mega EX" mechanic is a good move for the game, but I understand that - as the TCG is tied to the video games - it was necessary. The good news is that the new Pokémon-EX we've seen don't look to be as easily abused as the best of the current lot, but some of this comes from the hamfisted new rules that I've expounded upon in other threads... though if someone really wants to know, just ask (or PM) and I'll go over it again.

The Mega Evolving Pokémon-EX we have seen so far are... bad. Yes, the two we have seen enjoy new, printed high scores for HP... but that is the only positive they have. They are still Stage 1 Pokémon (or a new category that is essentially the same) with the inherent speed and space concerns, and Evolving into one ends your turn flat out, so you can't get multiples into play the same turn and thus each subsequent copy costs you another dead turn; you can't even combo with something like Tropical Beach.

The attacks on both cards are expensive and underwhelming given the investment, and all the "tricks" to make them better apply elsewhere... so all they have going for them is their HP scores, which won't really compensate for the "free" extra attack this enables - most decks can dole out an easy 70-90 points of damage in one turn, so either it is "business as usual" attacking something else, or an opponent that can hit a Mega EX will drop it fast enough that you're not even failing to pull ahead, but are actually farther behind than if you'd been running a good Pokémon-EX or Evolution!

Evolution Soda a.k.a. Evolutionary Soda (I've seen it translated both ways) is a niche card; it expressly states it counts as Evolving and doesn't work on something that couldn't normally Evolve; unless you need to bypass Ancient Power (the Ability on the Archeops which currently does not see competitive play) or if we find out you can use the Item on a Pokémon that just Evolved/can Evolve a Pokémon that was just played via Evolution Soda, you're no turns ahead for Evolving; it is just an Evolution search card. Most decks need to get both Basic Pokémon and Evolutions, and thus only when you aren't better off running Ultra Ball instead will you make good use of Evolutionary Soda.

vaporeon said:
Anyone else think Delphox is a little OP?
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Not by any recent standards. Its Ability is useful for setting up... but you have to set Delphox up first to do so. For a time a more or less identical Poké-Power was great on Magnezone Prime... but remember how that failed against decks attacking with big, Basic Pokémon?

Nothing I've seen suggests we should expect dual Stage 2 decks to make a comeback, and Delphox is a good attacker, not a great attacker; too many contemporary decks can OHKO it, so if you load Delphox up with Fire Energy for big hits... you're going to need a way of getting that Energy back as Delphox is quickly KOed (probably OHKOed). So for the current format, it is probably adequately powered or possibly underpowered. The new rules don't balance out Evolutions versus Basic Pokémon; if we get some truly useful lower Stages for Delphox to Evolve from, I will happily be wrong.
 
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shiny mewtwo said:
What about virbank, Virizion EX, Mega Venusaur EX combo? i see power in these three.
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Is it really "power" when you can't access it or use it powerfully?

If I am wrong, and if I am I want to know, but so far no one has explained how to combine all those things against an opponent actually fighting back (or using the same time for his or her own set-up) and come out ahead.

Remember you:

1) Can't attack* or Evolve first turn (so that's +2 turns for everything right there).
2) Can't attack or Evolve the turn you "Mega Evolve"**
3) If your opponent is running Virizion EX, M Venusaur EX attacks for just hits for 120.
4) You can't easily score areliable OHKO and you can't set-up a reliable lock.***

*If you go second and use an unreliable or clunky combo, Virizion EX can go first... but that is more resources and things to go wrong, and other uses for such combos.

**Remember, you can't Mega Evolve more than one in a single turn or follow up with Tropical Beach because it ends your turn. Now remember that you're giving your opponent a "free attack" by Mega Evolving.

***Grass Weak Pokémon are easy OHKOs, but that makes your efforts overkill, making it questionable to use the card when something else will suffice. Everything else regularly played is either faster, requires less resources, or too big for a OHKO... sometimes two or even all three of those at once! Then there is the soft lock; this isn't Gothgor so an Escape Rope or Switch breaks it. Keldeo EX also presents a problem; you OHKO it which breaks the soft lock, but if you leave it alive (especially with a Float Stone), it will also break the lock via Rush In and retreat!
 
^

Right now, the only way I could see Venusaur working is in a Garbodor deck. You shut off Keldeo ex and shut off Virizion EX, allowing the stasis to go through. Of course, that still doesn't solve the problem of getting four energy onto it...

Blastoise on the other hand, I can actually see working. Why? Deluge Blastoise + Max Potion + Superior Energy Retrieval. There isn't much that can OHKO a 220 HP pokemon, even with the grass weakness. The only things that can OHKO it are Shaymin EX and Genesect EX with G Booster. Shaymin will have to wait until 3 prizes are taken and if you're really afraid of G Booster, Spiritomb from legendary treasures stops that. I know it's not indestructible, Rayboar eats this for breakfast and things like Flareon or Tool Drop Trubbish can reach those numbers late game (and even BKEX can kill it with the upcoming Muscle Band card). But at least Blastoise can actually put the super high HP to use.
 
vaporeon said:
Guess you're right. I will be playing it with emboar. Id also always have a way to not get killed by N.
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Free bianca effect makes it REALLY good though. Not OP, but definitely the best of the stage 2 starters we're seeing.

Also, I would like to say, none of the megas are a total waste. Everyone seems to put up the argument that you can counter it when your opponent ends their turn when mega evolving. However, it's not every day when an opponent ends their turn with a 220-230 hp monster and I can instantly KO it the next turn. In order to do that, you most likely have to have a high cost attack AND their weakness. Just because their attacks aren't that useful as you would expect, their hp is the deciding factor in making up for that.
 
pokedan24 said:
Blastoise on the other hand, I can actually see working. Why? Deluge Blastoise + Max Potion + Superior Energy Retrieval. There isn't much that can OHKO a 220 HP pokemon, even with the grass weakness. The only things that can OHKO it are Shaymin EX and Genesect EX with G Booster. Shaymin will have to wait until 3 prizes are taken and if you're really afraid of G Booster, Spiritomb from legendary treasures stops that. I know it's not indestructible, Rayboar eats this for breakfast and things like Flareon or Tool Drop Trubbish can reach those numbers late game (and even BKEX can kill it with the upcoming Muscle Band card). But at least Blastoise can actually put the super high HP to use.
Click to expand...

castre said:
Also, I would like to say, none of the megas are a total waste. Everyone seems to put up the argument that you can counter it when your opponent ends their turn when mega evolving. However, it's not every day when an opponent ends their turn with a 220-230 hp monster and I can instantly KO it the next turn. In order to do that, you most likely have to have a high cost attack AND their weakness. Just because their attacks aren't that useful as you would expect, their hp is the deciding factor in making up for that.
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"Functional" does not equal "competitive". Neither of you are accounting for that turn of slowdown, and instead are setting up a strawman argument to knockdown. Mega Pokémon-EX are worth two Prizes and cost you a turn's attack; you do not need to score a OHKO against them. If you can safely hide them on your Bench, your opponent can still attack your Active and keep generating Prize advantage. If your opponent can force a M Pokémon-EX up front, most decks can do an easy 90 points of damage to it. That means even with how hard it is hitting, unless it is OHKOing Pokémon-EX your opponent should break even or pull ahead in Prizes.

Some decks will be able to OHKO them as well; some would be more gimmicky than others, and some are of questionable merit. Even if a deck isn't well established, if it exists and you know some people are going to play it, it becomes a concern. So Rayboar may not be something you expect to make Top Cut... but you can still run into it in the Swiss rounds, and without Weakness it can still OHKO a Pokémon-EX. Even if something has to exploit Weakness... that hasn't exactly been a rarely used tactic for the last five years.

The M Pokémon-EX have some impressive stats and can do some impressive things, but they have some terrible costs to go along with that.
 
vaporeon said:
Anyone else think Delphox is a little OP?
Click to expand...

I defiantly think delphox's ability is good, but at the same time it is underwhelming. The reason why I say this is because, well for one it is a stage two, and two it doesn't have the ability to put cards on the bottom of your deck like claydol was able to do. As for it's attack it is a fire type keldeo EX and since emboar has come back it might just work.
 
Otaku said:
Is it really "power" when you can't access it or use it powerfully?

If I am wrong, and if I am I want to know, but so far no one has explained how to combine all those things against an opponent actually fighting back (or using the same time for his or her own set-up) and come out ahead.

Remember you:

1) Can't attack* or Evolve first turn (so that's +2 turns for everything right there).
2) Can't attack or Evolve the turn you "Mega Evolve"**
3) If your opponent is running Virizion EX, M Venusaur EX attacks for just hits for 120.
4) You can't easily score areliable OHKO and you can't set-up a reliable lock.***

*If you go second and use an unreliable or clunky combo, Virizion EX can go first... but that is more resources and things to go wrong, and other uses for such combos.

**Remember, you can't Mega Evolve more than one in a single turn or follow up with Tropical Beach because it ends your turn. Now remember that you're giving your opponent a "free attack" by Mega Evolving.

***Grass Weak Pokémon are easy OHKOs, but that makes your efforts overkill, making it questionable to use the card when something else will suffice. Everything else regularly played is either faster, requires less resources, or too big for a OHKO... sometimes two or even all three of those at once! Then there is the soft lock; this isn't Gothgor so an Escape Rope or Switch breaks it. Keldeo EX also presents a problem; you OHKO it which breaks the soft lock, but if you leave it alive (especially with a Float Stone), it will also break the lock via Rush In and retreat!
Click to expand...

well, its sorta a vauge idea, you use emreld slash to power up m venasour, then put virbank into play, then crisis vine for 120 and get 30 from poisin, i see power just in a very, very, vauge way:confused:
 
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