Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

The Rebelion Begins

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R

Rebel Leader

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Greetings Poke'gym People! This is a Rebelion!

I am the notorious Regalus, a man who has traveled the TCG spectrum and seen the strange and fantastic. Jabbering aside, I am here to make your game better!
:thumb:
I am a game surgeon, I take games and I make them better! Now that doesn't mean I'm about to start printing cards from my desktop, but I am going to change what I, and you who comment, feel could be better.

To start off, I like the game play of Poke'mon. The only problem is everytime a new set comes out, it seems they change the rules to the start of the game. We need to ultimately and permanently decide if we can play goods/item cards during the first turn or not. Same with drawing first. Thats a small change that we need consenses.

Another thing that can be improved on is the way the format is conducted. I have played in all three of the BIG Three (Magic, Poke'mon, Yu-gi-oh!) and have seen among them two different ways to conduct a format: Set Rotation and Ban List formats. I am in favor of the latter. And here is why:

I am not a rich man. I love gaming. I have splashes of all sorts of games, but I am not about to go out and buy a billion boosters each time a set goes out (I hope this goes for most of you people). So an obvious alternative to purchasing cards is trading for them. Here is where the problems begin with set rotation. Almost all of my cards are out of date, no one wants to trade for them because noone is interested in the older cards; its not even that they are obselete, they are just can't be used. This leaves me with little choice but to spend money, which I don't have a lot of in the first place.
Secondly, I have a butt load, but I cannot play in tournaments. To me, they are wasted resources. Lets take a look at the one game that does a ban list (Yu-gi-oh!). If you scan the ban list of Yu-gi-oh! and know what you are looking at, you can roughly sort it into three catigories of cards:

Broken Cards are self-explanatory overpowered and raise the question why they were printed in the first place.

Abused Cards are deceptively unimpressive; however they were used in a way were used, however one who is familiar with the game (as I am) knows that this card's ability created a broken combo with this card etc. Hence in order to stop said deck, that card was banned. (This isn't saying every powerful deck needs its key cards banned, its just that there are some that are way more broken than others)

Loop Cards could be fit under abused, but they created a loop that could be infinitely repeated if it couldn't be stopped in time. I have heard of one case in Poke'mon, but I do not know the details.

What this leaves is a format that has a massive collection of resources that can take advantage of the restrictions and pluses given by that ban list. In other words, a ban list format allows more innovation (often causing cards that were printed years before to be banned).
And lastly the old cards seem to stick around and gather dust, they become worthless which to me is wasteful. I would like to see innovation!! I LOVE INNOVATION!! (Don't you?).

Hence the new Z FORMAT SYSTEM is now officially announced. Please join my rebellion and create a deck using cards from all of time and play them at leagues. This will ultimately encourage people to play Z Format and also weed out any broken combos. A broken combo will too easily overpower a wide variety of decks. In a year's time we need to have a list of banned cards to become the first official Z Format List. I already have a few suggestions:

Gyrados (Stormfront) - Gyrados donk is insane, agree?
Mewtwo (Base Set 1) - Mewtwo Mulligan. Plus his barrier makes him invincible.
Mr. Mime (Jungle) - One tough cookie, any attack that does 30 or more damage does nothing

With this ban list comes a call for a mechanic that both of the other Big Three have that Poke'mon lacks (which needs to be tested to determine whether it would be consistent for this game, since Poke'mon is greatly different from the other two games)
The Side Deck
This is a pile of 15 (or up to 15, again we need to test this) that a player can go into between games to modifiy his deck to better combat his opponent better. However a player must swap out cards from his deck so that the Side Deck still has as many cards as it originally did. The Side Deck can be the difference between life and death in a game.
Side Decks also call on the need for tournament rounds to be played in 3 game matches. This also allows a player a better chance to lose on skill and gameplay tactics (which are what we are really trying to measure) versus having a bad setup (which every deck will have at some point) and not really prove his/or herself.

So, JOIN THE REBELION! please. I really like this game, I just really hate the format setup. So please help me with its surgery and participate in my studies to create a more innovative and resourceful play scenario. - REBEL LEADER OUT
 
Ban list had been brought up before as an alternative from the rotation.

Problem is that eventually, everything will get banned. There will always be a few BDIFs that will dominate OP, and if you ban them, people will just move to the next best decks until you ban those.

Point is, it's been suggested.
 
What?

For what its worth, everyone that plays Pokemon already feels that most of the issues you talk about needs to be addressed. Personally, I favor rotation over ban lists. The fact that you miss about rotation is that is makes it cheaper for new players to get into. If all of the old, out of print cards are the good ones, you'll never get new players. If you new sets have all the good cards, what's the point in not rotating? Either scenario of using old cards discourages new players.

If you are looking for innovation, you don't need change, you can have it without. You are looking for a game that YOU invent that has the rules YOU like....which, in all reality, seem like just picking up a basketball and walking with it instead of dribbling. Then, telling you teammate to go to the top row of seats, since you've decided there is no longer on out of bounds, and you'll pass it to him. And, since it isn't fair that tall people are generally better than short people (and, by basketball standards, average people are short), lets put a ban list that includes anyone over 6'0. THe NBA could do that, but that becomes a sport that NBA might not like. Yeah, Pokemon has its problems, mostly evolving around mechanics such as going first and donks, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the game. In fact, I would say the reason the people that do play Pokemon choose it over the other "Big Three" because they prefer the format.
 
There are two basic reasons why Pokemon (and TCGs in general) will always prefer rotations to ban lists...

1) It invites new players. Pokemon is a CHILDREN'S CARD GAME. It is marketed towards children. It has always been marketed towards children. It will always be marketed towards children. If it makes it easier for children to get into the game, it's a good thing for the game. A ban list will always favor those that have been in the game the longest, or those that have the most time to devote to researching the game. Children will never fall into either category. They will never be in the game the longest because of their age. Nor will they have the most time to devote to research due to school. With a rotational format, it at least allows the children and the entry-level players a chance to be halfway-decent against the big wigs.

2) (this is the big one) IT MAKES THE COMPANY MOAR MONIES!!! That's the bottom line of every business. To make money. A ban list invites players to sit on their cards, only purchasing on the secondary market, bringing in zero actual dollars to the company outside of crazy collectors and T&T like businesses. An annual rotation invites people to purchase more cards.

Fortunately for you, the Unlimited format exists. It will never be a Premier tournament format because it is completely and utterly broken beyond all belief. When I can turn 1 have 4 Slowking in play and a Fossil Muk, that's a broken game. But, for players that don't have access to all the new and shiny cards, there's League, which is casual and you can generally play in any format you feel like playing in.
 
Why would you have 4 slowking and then a fossil muk, defeating the purpose of slowking?
Posted with Mobile style...
 
None of the cards you posted are particularly broken. The reason why no one anyone ever was successful with mewtwo was because of energy removal, not to mention there are tons of ways of dealing damage without actually attacking. Mr. mime never really made it because people ran a pokemon that did 20 or a pokemon that stopped powers altogether.
 
And the format is improving without the need for over-complicated banlists that are always controversial (see YGO for details).

Not to mention the fact that most players don't really want to be searching eBay for stuff that hasn't been in print for 10 years.

The whole idea just seems to come from 'Not fair, I can't use my old cards and don't want to buy any new ones!' rather than any real understanding of how to improve the game.
 
Oh....I thought that Emperor Palpatine and the Empire had taken over the Galaxy and we were going to start the Rebel Alliance to stop him and the Empire.

Misleading topic title is misleading. You are no Admiral Akbar =(
 
Rebel Leader said:
I am here to make your game better! :thumb:
Click to expand...

Rebel Leader said:
In a year's time we need to have a list of banned cards to become the first official Z Format List. I already have a few suggestions:

Mewtwo (Base Set 1) - Mewtwo Mulligan. Plus his barrier makes him invincible.
Click to expand...

:nonono::nonono::nonono:


Unfortunately, I think you’re overstating and misrepresenting the problems with the game. Think of rotations as a type of ban list. All cards from sets not in the rotation are on the ban list. TPCi does bring back certain cards in many formats, especially cards whose effects are irreplacable and unique: Switch, Rainbow Energy, Copycat, etc.

Regarding the side board, I somewhat agree with your conclusion but disagree with your argument. “The other major TCGs have it” isn’t justification why Pokemon needs it. Additionally, suggesting a side board of 15 is ridiculous and demonstrates how little knowledge you have about how the game works. Changing 15 cards is like playing a completely different deck in Pokemon.

You would be taken much more seriously if you invested some time into playing the game in its current format before proposing changes that quite frankly, don’t make much sense.
 
Thanks for your feedback

:smile:I thank you all for responding, and pointing out the flaws in my logic. :smile:

The old cards that new players don't have does raise a very legitimate roadblock to this process, being as many players don't have them. However, there are a few solutions:

Decide between a card and its watered down sequel

A good example of this is Energy Removal and Energy Removal 2. The only difference between the two is that the sequel requires a coin flip to do the same thing that the original does for free. In essence, this will reflect how we want the power train.

Experiment with decks to decide what is obviously broken

Back in the day, Trainers did similar things that supporters would do later (a good example of this is Professor Oak and Professor Juniper). Obviously Professor Oak would be a faster option than Professor Juniper (though you have to be careful with both cards). We simply need to determine what is 'too fast'. Which first needs to be defined.

If two cards (one old and one new) do the same thing, a person can only have four of both cards (combined) in a deck

This has happened a few times. This mainly applies to trainers, because no ones going to be phased by a Pidgey and a Machop both having the single same attack of tackle for a colorless.
A good example to clarify what I mean is Night Maintenece and Nightly Garbage Run (Rocket's Secret Machine). They both do the same thing, and are essentially the same card. Hence it makes sense that to preserve balance you cannot include four of both in the same deck, however a player can have two Night Maintenece and two Nightly Garbage Run (Rocket's Secret Machine) in their deck. More examples of this are:
Poke'mon Communication and Poke'mon Trader
Poke'mon Catcher and Gust of Wind
Professor Birch and Bianca

Also there is the case of Professor Oak and Professor Juniper, a Trainer and a Supporter, doing the same thing. The question that needs to be answered is if you could run them both at the same time. Suggestions?

There is little to no chance of Poke'mon USA reprinting an old card without violating it (as they did with Bill :nonono:) so those who are with me on this need to invest time into creating this new format. With ten + years of Poke'mon there are a billion possibilities ( I have one I'm working at called Gardebounce :lol: ) and we need to spend a year or two ironing it out. We are at the start of a journey.

I do not know everything about Poke'mon TCG, I got on the bandwagon the format before Diamond and Pearl came on the scene; therefore I need your help! Our collective knowledge could fish for the solution.

As to the supporters of set rotation:
Poke'mon makes little to no effort to incorporate the old cards into their meta. They just forget them. Hence it is dead weight, and no one bothers to tap that potential. Hence instead of a great many options there is only about a thousand legal cards (and as the last few sets shown, only a handful of cards from each set are actually used in tourneys). In my experience, only a handful of decks were floating around in the tournaments that were topping.

Before I continue I must point out that Yu-gi-oh! reprints its tournament staples frequently, and those that are insanely expensive can more often than not be lived without. However, like television executives, none of the Big Three executives conduct their policies without flaw. A TV executive may make a good decision once in a while, but ultimately they usually are mediocre at best (take NBC for example).

Yu-gi-oh!'s ban list is never without contreversy or flaw (they should've banned Dandylion, if you know what I'm talking about, but I liked the latest ban list besides that little faux-pas) however it makes sure most all of the old cards are not unusable (not necessarily useless or outdated, which will happen in any TCG) and there is potential for an older card to come back and cause chaos (Rescue Cat, Magical Merchant, Chaos Sorcerer, etc.). It also provides means for newer players to be prepared to counter it.

The Ban List must be treated differently for Poke'mon because there are only a handful of trainers (which run most of the engine of most decks) who have lasted forever (Switch, Potion (changed), Energy Search, possibly one or two more I am forgetting). As pointed out in the first paragraph this makes a very unique roadblock that a few people pointed out. Again, the solution is to try and play decks. Experiment. We need time to determine what we can do.

On the Side Deck issue, to clarify my point, its essential design is countermeta. Ideas need to come so we can design the side deck concept to fit the unique set up of Poke'mon. Granted someone stowing and extra evolution could be contreviersial, experimentation is needed to determine how we can make a side deck a functional part of the Poke'mon TCG. Even after that, however, there still will be that one deck that flies under the radar and nothing in your side deck can help you.

Also, If you have older cards like me, some commons have multiplied like rabbits in your collection (Bill, Professor Oak, Gust of Wind, Energy Switch, Energy Search) you can help interested new players by setting them up with a set, or trading for them or loaning them or whatever you see fit. Just try and get'em interested.

Ultimately, I want you to humor me. I am not necessarily doing this to avoid buying new cards (I'm marking my calendar for the next prerelease :clap: ) I just think we haven't squeezed enough juice out of the lemon. I am not trying to alter the game to something it is not, I simply see ways to make the game awesomer.

My next post will be one of two things: more clarifications, or my first deck profile that I made and am going to test at league tonight (barring how much traffic is coming, which I have no clue). As stated above, it is called GARDEBOUNCE and it seems like a lot of fun....

Lastly, The suggestions were really shots in the dark. Once more people are on board we can get an idea of were our power train needs to be and what violates that power train.

THANKS FOR READING (I LOVE FEEDBACK! :biggrin: )
And thanks for pointing out my spelling errors, I will now commit myself to spelling rebellion with two l's
 
A banned list wouldn't solve any problems. Cards are printed for a specific format to be used in. You can't just say "this card is broken". Double Rainbow Energy wasn't broken when it was printed. But it became broken in HP-on with cards from the Diamond & Pearl series. Sableye wasn't broken when it was printed, but it would be broken with new BW rules. Problems like this are solved by rotation much better than by ban lists. If we used unlimited format with a banned list, this list would have to be so long nobody could know which cards are on it. By now, you can't make an Unlimited format healhy. No chance.

Normal rotation, b-o-1 and everything worked perfectly fine until 2007. So it's not a matter of general format but of the cards they print.

Yes, the current format isn't really good. Could we change that? I'd personally say there are two things they need to do, use the old startup rule and ban Pokémon Catcher. But I can't tell you if that really helps. But it may get better as new cards (like N) are printed as well.

Magic is actually a good example how it could work. Standard format rotates every year and usually doesn't need a ban list, but the option is there in case you really need it. But a ban list should never be a tool for format shaping (yes, YGO has a really bad approach on this, as on almost everything). It should be a stopgap solution to prevent absolutely unhealthy formats, and there shouldn't be more than 2-3 cards on it, otherwise it will be very difficult for children and new players to learn which cards are allowed and which aren't.
 
A ban list is a tool, and it has to be used correctly, as you have stated. I want a field were the old and new cards combine into something awesome. Does everyone have to drop the format and run to Z Format? Absolutely not. But It should be there for the sake of innovation. Its as I said, we are dropping the Lemon before all the juice is squeezed.

We just need a few years of international particicpation running crazy decks that go above and beyond. Then we decide whether any of these decks are truly broken. We really cannot make any calls (except I had a lot of fun with Mr. Mime at league tonight :lol: )

Thanks for the comments! Check out my deck post comin' up in a little while, it is chaotic!

Regalus
 
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