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The Troubles with the Indiana States

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Hiro

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Well to begin with I am not from Indiana, or am I a regular to the PTO's events. I think I have been to one other tournament of Derek’s.

To begin with I got there about the start of registration, got that settled, with little problems, I mean I didn't like the deck check line, but that can't be blamed on him, but there is plenty of other things.

Well after them saying that round one should start at 12:15, pairings for round one were posted about 1:00. I get to my seat and wait for them to begin with there announcements. Well one of the judges had a loud speaker, and for the size and amount of people there, it was needed. He explained a few things, but not really that great. Plus when he said that this was the last Premier Even where head phones were aloud, I was suspired. They should have been banned a long time ago. Someone could have easily said I didn't understand your move, and then you might have been hurt by that. I don't know why they would allow them at all. Of course the worst part was most of my opponents had them on. Well I bite my tongue; at least they were taking them out after this.

I don't really think it matters who I played ever round in this post, but I did go 4-2.

All day I was noticing things, like the PTO Derek, had little if no interaction with anyone, in fact he made a 5 miniature warning 2 or 3 minutes after one of the judges made the same announcement, which could have confused a lot of people. Luckily I was done with my match at that point.

Well there was something that bothered me a lot. In the lower age, there was a situation where a kid said a curse word, and he was giving a talking to. I am not against that. These events need to stay clean, but it bothered me that I heard others saying worst things then that kid, and the judges had to hear it, he was right here, and nothing was done. I am mad about that. IS it that the kid who got in trouble was not local, or was it because the people who were saying worst things were local for the events? I believe both. You can't play favorites. It’s not right.

Well after 6 long rounds, with no lunch break, the top eight was reviled. I tripped at the finish line and ended with 10th. No big deal, epically with a deck I never played before. But I had a couple of friends who made the top 4 in the 11-14 categories. So the day was not a total lost. Well after that was reviled, Derek said that there would be sign ups for side events, I was like 'alright, a draft, those always are fun' but all he had was a Modified constructed, and a GBA tourney. Well there went that idea. But then I heard some people were doing a draft in the little area where the tables are, and where the hotel serves breakfast and stuff. We got 17 people in on it, and we were about to draft when the manager came up to us saying you couldn't play out here. Funny thing is, this is right after Derek talked to the manager. So what did we do? We went to a hotel room and did the draft. Man it was fun. I watched it, but it was fun. I went down to the room and see if my friends were doing well. Well they were facing different people, and one of them was doing pretty good, and the other not so good. I was trying to see, but of course there was a barrier around the finals, so I couldn't really see that well.

I left, and then came back, one of my friends lost, but the other came out on top, so he made it to the finales. Well I heard that his opponent look at him and said I am going to beat you. Wow, that’s good sportsmanship. Well I noticed the other kid’s older brother walking around in the barrier taking pictures. Well I woundered why he was allowed in. It was then my other friends told me they kicked out the guy who lost, who was my friend’s brother, when he lost. And they let this other kid’s brother in. Well he was taking pictures, but that still not fair, mostly because when he was done, he should have left, he didn't. So I deiced to play the same game, grabbed a camera and went in, taking pictures every so often. They didn't say anything, and it was good, I might have gotten angry.

In the end my friends won, I was thrilled. The funny part was the older brother of the kid who lost came up and said, it was no big deal, that he would have given the prizes and all the stuff to my friend anyway. I didn't believe that, I think he was just trying to make it feel like the kid who lost wasn’t trying.

So that was the tournament in a very large nut shell, some byest judges, a PTO who needs to get with the program, and a lot of bad sportsman. Most of these players need to learn what a good sportsman is, and Derek needs to be the one who teaches them, but he needs to learn himself.
 
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Well there was soemthing that bothered me a lot. In the lower age, there was a situatiuon where a kid said a curse word, and he was givin a talking to. I am not aginst that. These events need to stay clean, but it bothered me that I heard others saying worst things then that kid, and the judges had to hear it, he was right here, and nothing was done. I am mad about that. IS it that the kid who got in trouble was not local, or was it becuase the people who were saying worst things were loacll for the events. I belive both. You can't play favorits. Its not right.

Allow me to make a comment on this...

I also know what happened, seeing as I was there too. Might I add that when he said the curse word, it wasn't exactly loud. It wasn't anything disturbing and just so everyone knows it wasn't even a big deal of a curse word. Believe me it was probably the lightest of one you could have said. I heard plenty of worse stuff all day like you said. What I found interesting was the judge gets mad at the one kid for doing this, yet not too long after another player calls a judge over and I will quote him on what he said "Judge please tell me what the hell is my opponent doing". Also, this was the same word that the younger player used earlier on and got introuble for saying... not only was the player talking DIRECTLY too a judge so OBVIOUSLY they heard it... but the judge smiled and laughed a little. Also might I add that this time when the word was used it was spoken much louder than it was by the younger child. Why is the quiet, less disruptive one scolded for it but the other is laughed at and it's blown off? Yeah there sure were no playing favorites today :rolleyes:

Also during the top cut the same exact player who said the word as the younger player, later on however while final matches were still being played. The person who was sitting with him (I believe it was him) it might have been the player himself I'm not sure. Even tho it was in a joking manner, this was also very disruptive and distracting to other players in the final rounds. One of the two, which ever it was yells "These judges suck"... once again nothing is done they just shrug it off and laugh. Joking or not that shouldn't be happening during the final cuts.

. It was then my other friends told me they kicked out the guy whoi lost, wh owas my frineds brother when he lost. And they let this other kids brother in. Well he was takinbg pictures, but that still not fair,

Need to add a bit to this also. The player who was in the finals stuck around in the play area to watch the semi finals... he was very close to the players sitting at the table like they were when he was in his match. That's fine and all but what really blew me away is that the kid starts grabbing cards on the table and reading them and making remarks about their plays and what not. I don't think any player should be allowed to just reach in during a game, ESPECIALLY a top cut match and just grab cards and look at them when they want. The judge informed the players if they wanted him to leave just say so... however I think at this point the judge shoulda said for the kid to get out instead of just leaving it up to them because whether they cared or not he should not be interfering with another players game like that. The person that got told to leave and they couldn't watch the match was NOT doing A SINGLE THING that would distract from a match. He wasn't even sitting at the same table, infact he was sitting in a chair by the table next to them just watching.. not talking not doing ANYTHING... the judge told him he had to get out. BTw this kid is the same one that got introuble for saying hell... Why exactly is local people the judges know (and I KNOW you know the players I am talking about) but this little kid who is doing nothing compared to them getting in trouble for doing the same things to a lesser effect.

I had a bit of fun at the event... more so from being with friends I came with... but some of it was kinda disappointing. It really didn't seem like an Indiana state championship either seemed more like a OH/MI/IL mix state championship... there weren't a lot from IN that I'm aware of. Most of the faces I saw were familiar and from one of those three states I listed above.

Just my thoughts on this...

Decent event... but somethings need to change and hopefully will before I return to an event ran by the same people.

I pretty much agree with everything the person above stated.
 
I have nothing but praise and respect for Derek and his team of judges who run the events in the Great Lakes/Midwest area - I think that all of his events are top-notch. I assure you Derek does his best at these events, and I highly doubt he or the judges were playing favorites. All of Derek's events are always posted here on the gym, with side event info as well, drafts are generally not in his budget to run. That's my two cents. Great tourney Derek
 
PhoenixSong said:
I was at the Michigan States and Derek did a fantastic job - it was one of the most well run events I've ever been to.


Just for the record... I have been to other events of Dereks and I did enjoy them a lot... this one was a little... different and I was shocked at some of the things I witnessed which really disappointed me cause I enjoyed his events prior to this but am hesitating on returning.

I really didn't see enough of Derek to have a problem with him... cause like Hiro said he wasn't really doing much interaction. I mean we talked a bit and he was very friendly but that was about it.

I my self did not have any issues with anything until I saw what was happening with my friends (yes I am friends with the child who used the curse word) and at that point I was less than happy... to really put how I felt, I was furious.
 
YoungJohn06 said:
What I found interesting was the judge gets mad at the one kid for doing this, yet not too long after another player calls a judge over and I will quote him on what he said "Judge please tell me what the hell is my opponent doing". Also, this was the same word that the younger player used earlier on and got introuble for saying... not only was the player talking DIRECTLY too a judge so OBVIOUSLY they heard it... but the judge smiled and laughed a little. Also might I add that this time when the word was used it was spoken much louder than it was by the younger child. Why is the quiet, less disruptive one scolded for it but the other is laughed at and it's blown off? Yeah there sure were no playing favorites today :rolleyes:
If that was in the semifinals, it might've been me who said that, because that's really close to exactly what I said when Sean played a Celio's during the first turn of the game on me. :rolleyes:

But if that is the case, it's slightly different because there were a lot less players around, or maybe because the crowd he was around was a lot younger. Instead of the large amount of people around the kid who was playing earlier, there were only a few older people around. At least, that's the logic from those same judges that let Jimmy say pretty much whatever he wanted in the semifinals at Auburn Cities.

YoungJohn06 said:
Need to add a bit to this also. The player who was in the finals stuck around in the play area to watch the semi finals... he was very close to the players sitting at the table like they were when he was in his match. That's fine and all but what really blew me away is that the kid starts grabbing cards on the table and reading them and making remarks about their plays and what not. I don't think any player should be allowed to just reach in during a game, ESPECIALLY a top cut match and just grab cards and look at them when they want. The judge informed the players if they wanted him to leave just say so... however I think at this point the judge shoulda said for the kid to get out instead of just leaving it up to them because whether they cared or not he should not be interfering with another players game like that. The person that got told to leave and they couldn't watch the match was NOT doing A SINGLE THING that would distract from a match. He wasn't even sitting at the same table, infact he was sitting in a chair by the table next to them just watching.. not talking not doing ANYTHING... the judge told him he had to get out. BTw this kid is the same one that got introuble for saying hell... Why exactly is local people the judges know (and I KNOW you know the players I am talking about) but this little kid who is doing nothing compared to them getting in trouble for doing the same things to a lesser effect.
I agree there was a bit of favoritism, or maybe even more so than that, and that the person you're talking about probably shouldn't have been kicked out, but I don't know all the details of that. The people watching our semifinals game weren't disrupting us at all, however.

Hiro said:
Well after that was reviled, Derek said that there would be sign ups for side events, I was like 'alright, a draft, those always are fun' but all he had was a Modified constructed, and a GBA tourney. Well there went that idea. But then I heard some people were doing a draft in the little area where the tables are, and where the hotel serves breakfast and stuff. We got 17 people in on it, and we were about to draft when the manager came up to us saying you couldn't play out here. Funny thing is, this is right after Derek talked to the manager.
From what I heard, the reason Derek got so upset and had a talk with the manager was because 17 people went over to draft instead of playing in his side event(s). At $5 for 5 Deoxys packs, they stole away all of his players, and that made him furious. I don't know if they should've been kicked out, but Derek threatened the manager to never run a tournament at that hotel again if they weren't removed. I'm not sure what to think about that, but imo, that was just wrong.

Other than that, I have no complaints about the tournament. It got started a bit late at 1:00, but I don't mind; why would we need a lunch break when the tournament starts so late?
 
Setzer Gabbiani said:
If that was in the semifinals, it might've been me who said that, because that's really close to exactly what I said when Sean played a Celio's during the first turn of the game on me. :rolleyes:

But if that is the case, it's slightly different because there were a lot less players around, or maybe because the crowd he was around was a lot younger. Instead of the large amount of people around the kid who was playing earlier, there were only a few older people around. At least, that's the logic from those same judges that let Jimmy say pretty much whatever he wanted in the semifinals at Auburn Cities.

There weren't many other players around as this happened in the semi finals for 11-14... It wasn't loud enough to be heard and believe me the kid he was playing and the others around I'm sure have heard much worse and I can almost promise said worse seeing as I heard them say worse through out the day. So I really don't see how that could be the reason.

I do believe it was you that said it, I don't MIND that you said it but if they're gonna punish one person for the same exact word who is saying it in the same area at a much calmer tone, you better be saying something to the other person as well. Seeing as you were in an area with younger children around too you probably shoulda received the same kind of attention for it as the other kid. I was able to hear you say it from a decent distance outside of the top area...
 
YoungJohn06 said:
There weren't many other players around as this happened in the semi finals for 11-14... It wasn't loud enough to be heard and believe me the kid he was playing and the others around I'm sure have heard much worse and I can almost promise said worse seeing as I heard them say worse through out the day. So I really don't see how that could be the reason.

I do believe it was you that said it, I don't MIND that you said it but if they're gonna punish one person for the same exact word who is saying it in the same area at a much calmer tone, you better be saying something to the other person as well. Seeing as you were in an area with younger children around too you probably shoulda received the same kind of attention for it as the other kid. I was able to hear you say it from a decent distance outside of the top area...
Ah, I see. I thought this had happened during the Swiss portion of the tournament. In that case, I don't know. Maybe it was favoritism. I really don't know what to say. By that time I said something, they were in the finals / finished with the finals for both the 10- and 11-14, so I don't know how many people were still around.

The "These judges suck" comment was said entirely jokingly because Sands had asked us, the players, what to do about the Celio's Network being played illegally instead of making a judgement on it himself.

Edit: I just spoke with one of the judges from the event, and apparently the reason he was scolded for it because one of the players complained that he was swearing. If he wouldn't have complained, they wouldn't have made anything of it.
 
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Setzer Gabbiani said:
Ah, I see. I thought this had happened during the Swiss portion of the tournament. In that case, I don't know. Maybe it was favoritism. I really don't know what to say. By that time I said something, they were in the finals / finished with the finals for both the 10- and 11-14, so I don't know how many people were still around.

The "These judges suck" comment was said entirely jokingly because Sands had asked us, the players, what to do about the Celio's Network being played illegally instead of making a judgement on it himself.

Edit: I just spoke with one of the judges from the event, and apparently the reason he was scolded for it because one of the players complained that he was swearing. If he wouldn't have complained, they wouldn't have made anything of it.

Yeah and like he really cared... trust me he didn't seeing as he was using much worse words all day. I understand coming from a judges view you have to say something if they complain however if you've received a complain about cursing from someone then allow another player to go ahead and do it knowing someone does care about it... isn't too good either.
 
hiro: fyi, derek had little deoxys packs left, so he didn't have enough to do a draft. Also, he didn't do a draft becuase i don't remember a time enough people actually signed up to wanting to do one. The deck check line was because there was a complaint before about decklists, so he blocked it off so no one could blatantly see them. Also, the reason why is it was late. The line of decklists people were still in it. You can't just stop the line, you have to wait. They didn't explain things enough? That's why he went over the basics, and asked for Q's. Banning headphones for communications problems? that's not why it's being banned, it's banning it for problems with "messages". He's banning headphones, not PUI. So be happy that he is, not be ticked at him for finally doing it. Derek wasn't around why? Because he wasn't judging. He was at the computer doing pairings, putting in people, making it sure it doesn't crash, and to have rounds up right away, so people like you don't complain about the delay.

"Well there was something that bothered me a lot. In the lower age, there was a situation where a kid said a curse word, and he was giving a talking to. I am not against that. These events need to stay clean, but it bothered me that I heard others saying worst things then that kid, and the judges had to hear it, he was right here, and nothing was done. I am mad about that. IS it that the kid who got in trouble was not local, or was it because the people who were saying worst things were local for the events? I believe both. You can't play favorites. It’s not right."

That same kid also was almost booted for roughhousing a couple times, and swearing around 14- kids, 10- kids which are elementary kids and are totally not allowed swearing, where as the 15+ crowd is high school, and i hear swearing every 5 minutes at mine. There was no lunch break why? we start after noon, why take a lunch break after R1, 1:00-1:30ish, it's plain stupid. Derek also complained because he's the PTO for that event. It's just plain rude to take someone's sellers out of the area. That's like walking into McDonald's and saying here's 75% off coupons for Burger King across the street, you'd get booted right away, because you lose sales.
The wall across the area? all you could've done is asked a judge whats the count for games or prizes, or gone to the other side, right next to the tables where 11-14 were playing, easily in sight. I know because i did that exact thing. He took pictures of everyone, and went right up to the game to take pictures. I for one saw nothing wrong with it, he was taking pictures all day. You were allowed too. He went up to my game and took pictures too. Note, i'm not 11-14, what game he was playing was beyond me. First of all, i saw no judges biased, and if you didn't believe them, that's why you could call anyone else, including Derek. Derek needs to get with the problem? Hilarious. You try doing tournaments nearly every week, making sure he has everything set up right, cleaning up, doing pairings, reporting to PUI, scheduling these events, I'm suprised he's not stressed out. I'd like to see you do the same thing, and then comment on that situation.

"
Most of these players need to learn what a good sportsman is, and Derek needs to be the one who teaches them, but he needs to learn himself."

Tell me, how was derek not a sportsman? Did he flip a table? Make a rude comment to his opponent? No. And for him to teach sportsmanship? That's the persons decision or not, Derek can't teach a thing. And even if he did, a lot of people he doesn't know, Ohio, Illinois, WI, etc. Why don't you try teaching 5 states sportsmanship? That's only around, oh 300 palyers at least. No offense, but how much of a smart*** comment was that to him.

I for one now congratulate Derek on this wonderful job, and if you get some complaint emails Derek, lmk, I will send them an email about how many times you have been the best PTO to our area.

Edit: And if Derek is booted from being a PTO because of this so called incident, i for one WILL quit this game, since there are people whining about incidents that happen in everything. Getting rid of a PTO this good will ruin this game, for you and for all us up here, and it will get me away from it.
 
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OK, haven`t we learned anything the past few weeks? This is going nowhere quickly and will end with bannings. If someone has a complaint, use the proper forum(i.e. e-mail to appropriate place) for said complaint. Lock.

`Sensei
 
Dekek paid money to get that venue and you're suprised that he got upset that someone pulled players away from his side event that generates the money to pay back that cost, and yes, make a profit for his troubles? Feh.
 
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