HGSS-on Thick Typhlosion, Skinny Samurott

[wilyfungi]

At worlds amphachu and I were talking and I realized Ninetales in Typhlosion is pretty bad. You stall out of energy a lot, and even if you burn for 3 once, you can stall out of energy and supporters again with a low supporter count (4 PONT/2 Juniper, what I was trying at the time). If you have a lot of supporters, then you rarely need the Ninetales! I tried Typhlosion/Magnezone/Samurott, but that just turned out to still play to the same typical "who got set up first" scenario. Thanks to this I decided: screw it, 4-2-4 Typhlosion, drop the Reversal, and throw in a 1-0-1 Samurott to dominate the mirror match.

I am sure the deck is not perfect, so I would like some help with any suggestions on the trainers. I have found Elm to be useful because you can Elm+Rare Candy relatively easily...but I have always resisted the idea of using Elm, so maybe someone can convince me to replace it with something

Redshark 4.00 Deck List
Date: Sun Aug 21 01:22:54 2011

Name: typhlosiond
Comments:

TOTAL CARDS: 60

POKEMON: 17
Stage 2: 5
1 : Samurott, BW-32
4 : Typhlosion (Prime), GS-110
Stage 1: 2
2 : Quilava, GS-49
Basic: 10
4 : Cyndaquil, GS-61
4 : Reshiram, BW-113
1 : Oshawott, Promo-203
1 : Cleffa, GS-17

TRAINERS: 31
Trainers: 17
3 : PlusPower, BW-96
4 : Pokemon Communication, BW-99
2 : Revive, BW-102
4 : Rare Candy, UL-82
4 : Junk Arm, TM-87
Supporters: 14
4 : Professor Oak's New Theory, CL-83
1 : Engineer's Adjustments, UL-75
2 : Professor Elm's Training Method, CL-82
3 : Professor Juniper, BW-101
4 : Pokemon Collector, GS-97

ENERGY: 12
Basic Energy: 12
12 : Fire Energy, CL-89

 

[Contagous Red]

Typhlosion and Ninetails got t2 in two divisions and and there was a lot reshi-samurrott out there that did bad due to its inconsistency, thats what i played at worlds with a solid list that went 4-3

 

[wilyfungi]

This is more consistent than it would be with Ninetales. Just because people are playing the deck one way does not mean it cannot be played better another, people simply copy success. Ninetales is a waste of space and nothing else.

 

[Arks Arcanum]

This is more consistent than it would be with Ninetales. Just because people are playing the deck one way does not mean it cannot be played better another, people simply copy success. Ninetales is a waste of space and nothing else.

Have you ever played Reshiphlo? Ninetails is the key to Reshiphlo being the most consistent deck in format. I would test a little more before making such incorrect statements.

 

[wilyfungi]

Yes, I played the deck and play it well. Have you tested without Ninetales? No, so why are you making a statement and asserting it as fact? This deck wins the mirror at least 70% due to the better setup and single Samurott tech, and sets up better against all decks.

The point of me making this topic was not to assert how right I am, but it definitely was also not for you to assert how right you are. If you are unwilling to take the time to think something through and look at different ideas, then at least leave the snide condescension to yourself.

 

[SMP88]

Have you ever played Reshiphlo? Ninetails is the key to Reshiphlo being the most consistent deck in format. I would test a little more before making such incorrect statements.

You mean like how the Seniors world champion played Tyram without Ninetails?

Deck list looks good, I prefer 2 Engineer's Adjustments just to get an early energy in the discard without Juniper, but to each his own.

 

[Umbreon Prime]

I've been playing around with this deck lately and I've found that with Engineer's Adjustments maxed at 4, Ninetales does come in handy once in a while but sometimes it seems it would better to not have it there.

 

[Arks Arcanum]

Well sorry to upset people and I dont want to step on toes. I didnt mean to sound condescending and am not gonna turn this into an argument, but I did test tyram without ninetails because of catcher but found that having a combination of PONT and roast reveal gave this deck incredible speed and consistency. Maybe it is just how I play. Instead of Samurott what about using SEL vs the mirror? It fits in perfectly and can easily rip through several opposing reshiram.

 

[wilyfungi]

SMP, would you suggest 2 Engineer's 2 Juniper then? I found with 2 Juniper that I was rarely forced to discard in a way that made me uncomfortable (usually able to communication away a pokemon and then discard mostly junk), but that with 3 I discard uncomfortably a bit more as I rely on it more.

Arks Arcanum I am a blunt person, I am not meaning to sound like you are rude or anything even, I just find it frustrating that people yelled at me about how open ended the format was at the start (something I disagreed with), but now I am trying to do explore something slightly different and people dismiss it out of hand.

The problem with SEL to me is timing. If you are down 2-1 and it is your turn, that would be an amazing time to put down SEL. I have trouble seeing it doing as well for you in the prize race at other times unless they have significant setup problems. Samurott, on the other hand, is basically good for +1 prize most of the time (depends on their plus power drops). Getting it out very early game with a setup edge would be significant as well I guess?

Umbreon Prime, I would say that could be consistent as well. I was just finding myself only needing Ninetales 1-3 turns a match (and rarely as much as 3, probably 50% 1 turn 40% 2 turns and 10% 3+). This led me to believe that setting up Typhlosion while keeping the deck drawing with supporters might be a better solution, hence extra supporters but a 4-2-4 Typhlosion line.

 

[Umbreon Prime]

SMP, would you suggest 2 Engineer's 2 Juniper then? I found with 2 Juniper that I was rarely forced to discard in a way that made me uncomfortable (usually able to communication away a pokemon and then discard mostly junk), but that with 3 I discard uncomfortably a bit more as I rely on it more.

Arks Arcanum I am a blunt person, I am not meaning to sound like you are rude or anything even, I just find it frustrating that people yelled at me about how open ended the format was at the start (something I disagreed with), but now I am trying to do explore something slightly different and people dismiss it out of hand.

The problem with SEL to me is timing. If you are down 2-1 and it is your turn, that would be an amazing time to put down SEL. I have trouble seeing it doing as well for you in the prize race at other times unless they have significant setup problems. Samurott, on the other hand, is basically good for +1 prize most of the time (depends on their plus power drops). Getting it out very early game with a setup edge would be significant as well I guess?

Umbreon Prime, I would say that could be consistent as well. I was just finding myself only needing Ninetales 1-3 turns a match (and rarely as much as 3, probably 50% 1 turn 40% 2 turns and 10% 3+). This led me to believe that setting up Typhlosion while keeping the deck drawing with supporters might be a better solution, hence extra supporters but a 4-2-4 Typhlosion line.

Yeah, same here. Using Sage's and Engineer's pretty much covers the draw power. I'm going to try having a 1-1-1 Samurott in my TyRam deck and see how that works.