Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Thieves caught on video at Worlds, TPCi does nothing

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bilbo Baggins said:
I agree to an extent with this. While Jon did return the items, apologize, etc, I still think there is enough there to at least suspend him for his actions. (not perma ban) If this was only the first thing he did, I agree a warning for him would have been all right. However, since there has been other reports of similar acts or fishy behavior, a suspension seems necessary. Other than that, I agree with you.
Click to expand...

Could you expand on these "other reports"? I keep seeing people talk about previous behavior by these two, but have yet to see anyone give an example.
 
Bilbo Baggins said:
I agree to an extent with this. While Jon did return the items, apologize, etc, I still think there is enough there to at least suspend him for his actions. (not perma ban) If this was only the first thing he did, I agree a warning for him would have been all right. However, since there has been other reports of similar acts or fishy behavior, a suspension seems necessary. Other than that, I agree with you.
Click to expand...

What other reports? Jason K overreacting to a joke?
 
BobTehHobo said:
Could you expand on these "other reports"? I keep seeing people talk about previous behavior by these two, but have yet to see anyone give an example.
Click to expand...

Ness said:
On Friday, the day of the Last Chance Qualifier, I entered the public restroom at the Convention Center and set my deck and dice box down on a nearby shelf before stepping in front of a urinal.

From the corner of my eye, I spotted a man approach the shelf, then immediately begin heading towards the exit. I peeked back at the shelf and noticed my deck and dice missing. I hollered at the man walking towards the door, who froze. He was holding my deck and dice.

This man attempting to steal my deck and dice was Jon Bristow. Jon froze, then said he was only taking my items as a joke. Not even knowing Jon, I of course did not find this funny. I let him know this, and gave him the benefit of the doubt, rather than create a scene involving security and/or police.
Click to expand...

From the first page of the thread.


As noted above, everyone is saying this was a 'joke'. I guess it's all fun since he didn't get away? Would this be funny to you if someone walked away with your stuff like this? I'm sorry, but pretending to steal like he did doesn't seem like a 'fun joke'....
 
Bilbo Baggins said:
From the first page of the thread.
Click to expand...

So you have one example. One instance doesn't establish a pattern of behavior, especially when you've got another player vouching for his explanation of it being a joke. Also, that's just Jon. What about the people saying Gino has a history, but no one's given any examples?
 
Moss Factor said:
Jason K? What does he have to do with any of this?

Also are you implying that players simply getting cash over an arranged trip, completely overhauling the current system, is a better solution than banning these criminals? Really?!
Click to expand...

Jason is the most obvious example of someone who would have a hotel room provided for by TPCi next year at Worlds.

If your argument is that TPCi should be held responsible just because players are staying at a TPCi-provided hotel, don't be surprised when TPCi stops providing hotels if they don't want to bear that burden.
 
I love how something about Jason makes him simply more trustworthy than anyone else, even after his actions may have ruined Mees chances at getting his laptop back from the thief.

Jon mentioned this to me the day it happened. He didn't make up the story after the fact. Things like this happen all the time among friends. I can only say Jon messed up and was out of line. As far as I know Jon thought he and Jason were on solid terms. Unfortunately it seems highly suspicious because of the timing of it all and Jon knows it.

Do you even know Jon? Or Jason for that matter? And why do you feel the need to say what you think is an appropriate way for TPCi to punish a player? Bans are clearly handled on a case by case basis and are investigated very thoroughly. TPCi has more information than all of us do.

- - - Updated - - -

BobTehHobo said:
So you have one example. One instance doesn't establish a pattern of behavior, especially when you've got another player vouching for his explanation of it being a joke. Also, that's just Jon. What about the people saying Gino has a history, but no one's given any examples?
Click to expand...
Gino has a long local history. He's been banned from the PTOs store before. The most common cheating allegation is of him palming cards from the discard pile, but I don't believe he's ever been caught. The allegations of cheating are consistent but mean little in my opinion because he's never actually been caught doing it.
 
Seriously?

How is the police report, and the report from the hotel not enough evidence for you? Fine maybe you choose to be skeptical but where was the skepticism for the player who put dung in the hallway being banned? Where was the innocent until proven guilty then? Where was the community raving with skepticism and innocent until proven guilty. I mean we did only have people the hotels report and witness reports which clearly aren't enough evidence to suspend/ban gino or jon. The point remains that either pokemon needs to care about what happens with players outside of the actual event, (at the hotels for example) or they don't. I get so sick of these people are banned for double nickel shuffling and these people aren't. What happens at the hotel is moderated by TPCI or it isn't. Personally I would like it if I could feel more safe at events and not allow known thieves to attend. But all of the "lawyers" here clearly need more evidence for a fair trial; my question to you is why play the devils advocate and risk your stuff being stolen. This isn't about 2 players, it's about a stance against stealing being okay. I'm sure when all of your things are stolen you may take a different approach than playing the devils advocate. I ask you to think of what's best for the community (a stance against stealing, or placing of dung in hallways by pokemon players outside of events) instead of just wanting to seem like an intellectual and argue for the sake of arguing. Also I am awaiting your response TPCI, your players have spoken, will you simply remain silent and expect this to go away. I'm sure you have noticed but the players are done being silent and done just accepting what's handed down to us. SDPokemom for once in your life can you consider the players, (the people who make this forum and tournaments exist) Instead of just trying to look good to TPCI. Take a stance against thievery and take a stance against these actions outside of Pokemon events, because in order to travel and play pokemon we do have to stay somewhere and want it to be safe, and if players choose to make it unsafe for our personal belongings, do not allow them to come to future events.

Justin Phillips
 
BobTehHobo said:
So you have one example. One instance doesn't establish a pattern of behavior, especially when you've got another player vouching for his explanation of it being a joke.
Click to expand...

It's still an example isn't it? Even his latest actions are still fishy.

A) If Mees did have some of Jon's things, wouldn't the first step to getting his things back is to ask Mees himself "Hey, could I have the stuff you held on for me back?"
B) If Jon's things were with Mees, then how do you take more than the few cards of his from Mees?
 
Here's the problem I have with the whole 'John was kidding/took it by accident':

1. If I open/rummage through someone's bag for something, I very clearly either ask them first, or if I'm in VERY good terms with the person, I tell them about it both before AND after. As in, 'Hey Joe Schmo, I'm gonna open your bag and take my cards out' and then later 'hey I got X, Y, and Z, thanks'. If possible, I even do it in front of them - even if they're a person who trusts me dearly.

2. Even in a rush I wouldn't grab the wrong cards. If he was grabbing his deck, how exactly did he grab two at a time, or did he grab Mees and not his own? Doesn't this seem weird to anyone? When I'm getting a card someone was holding onto for me, I know exactly what to get. I don't accidentally get more.

3. It's SO easy to claim you're joking when you're caught. It's like when you watch that show Mystery Diners (video tape restaurants to catch thieves) and after being caught red-handed they say they were going to give it to the restaurant anyway or whatever. How do you know the person doesn't just keep shut about the steals he gets successfully and 'owns up' when he's caught? I don't know about you, but when I'm joking about taking someone's cards, a) they're people I know very well, and I... b) make it very obvious, or... c) make it obvious to the people around me, so they know I'm not seriously stealing someone's things. From what Jason described, it doesn't seem like he applied ANY of those things. I can understand his paranoia.

If you want to cry about his innocence and the like, fine, but he at a minimum should be suspended. If anything he should learn to either be a little more mature in his jokes, or get a better understanding of who he can joke around with or not. This is serious stuff; theft is no laughing matter. It's like in the office I work in.. I know which co-workers I can mess around with and pull pranks and which ones I cannot, and if I mess up and get reprimanded, I'll have deserved it.
 
Bilbo Baggins said:
It's still an example isn't it? Even his latest actions are still fishy.

A) If Mees did have some of Jon's things, wouldn't the first step to getting his things back is to ask Mees himself "Hey, could I have the stuff you held on for me back?"
B) If Jon's things were with Mees, then how do you take more than the few cards of his from Mees?
Click to expand...

Did you read Jon's account of it?
A) He initially went to Mees's room to ask for his stuff. Mees had already checked out and the room was empty. Since he hadn't heard from Mees, he thought they were stealing his stuff.
B) When he was taking his stuff he also accidentally grabbed one of Mees's boxes that looked like his.
 
Victory Bell said:
Jon on the other hand has been one of my best friends for almost 7 years. Never, EVER have I known him to be an immoral person. He's a lot like myself-he speaks his mind, he's honest and he is definitely one to make things right however he can. He's returned every card I've let him borrow and some I'm pretty sure were never mine to begin with. Even after all this drama I would trust him with almost any item I own. The man has an unyielding moral compass and a strong sense of guilt-a sense I'm not sure if Gino has at all. Jon maintains that he tried to only take from the suitcase what was his. Everything else was given back. Gino, if he stole the laptop, took advantage of the situation and Jon's distraction. I don't think that Jon would just let Gino take someone elses laptop. He's one of the few people I've known to have the courage to stand up to Gino. In fact, you never even see the laptop. If Gino stole it he probably kept it in the bag, hidden from Jon as well.
Click to expand...

You (to your credit) state your obvious bias for Jon, then sidetrack your whole argument about people not having all the information making assumptions by making up your hypothetical scenario.

Victory Bell said:
Jon has had his deckbox stolen locally before and he had no reason to target Jason in the bathroom. Like I said, Jon believed that he was on good terms with Jason. I don't think there was any bad intent there, the incident was just poorly timed relative to the whole Laptop affair.
Click to expand...

Wrong, you don't know that as you have only anecdotal accounts from Jon himself. It's okay to think he's innocent until proven guilty but you're making assumptions left and right to justify your belief that your friend is innocent. The fact is that you have both accounts of the same situation - one not so flattering (Jason mentioning that Jon needed to be stopped by him before turning around and returning the cards - a bit extreme for a "joke", no?) and a second hand account from you, having heard from Jon (supposedly) saying that it WAS indeed all a joke in poor taste. While one is no more valid than the other, the only constant is that Jon - regardless of intention - did take someone's cards at the same event and had to be verbally stopped before returning them.

Victory Bell said:
Unfortunately the Pokegym community (and the Reddit one, thanks to yet another poster trying to create an internet wide witch hunt that would pressure TPCi to ban both Jon and Gino) really doesn't have level of firsthand information or posters informed about the situation. These people who are just trying to shout far and wide to put pressure on TPCi are completely out of line. Not only are they damaging TPCi's reputation... these rash actions are perfect examples of poorly thought out vigilante justice. To all the ban happy players out there who want a slice of power: why do you feel that your opinion carries more weight than the informed decision that TPCi made? Do you all seriously think you deserve to decide who gets banned and who doesn't?
Click to expand...

People are entitled to their opinions. Just like your opinionated piece about your friend. TPCi should expect backlash given that the transparency behind decisions is non-existent. In this particular case, given the one-sided evidence and precedents set by TPCi with bans before, it's hard to rationalize why no action was taken. Unless evidence to the contrary is given (and it doesn't help that Jon did have the cards - but mailed them back, and that Gino hasn't said anything meaningful), there's no reason for everyone to believe otherwise.


Victory Bell said:
...Jason Klaczynski. I admired him as a player for so many years. Jon did too. I know he had a particularly bad experience with Jon but the harassment has gone too far. As far as I know Jon contacted Mees about the cards he had mistakenly taken (and if you don't know Jon's side of the story you shouldn't even be making judgments here) well before Jason made his first post calling him out. What Jason said only damaged Jon's reputation forever. Gino, if he has the laptop, would be shooting himself in the foot if he ever gives it back. By admitting he has it he would be forever shunned by the community-he'd be better off keeping it. Had the situation been kept between Mees, Jon and Gino everything could have been resolved quietly.
Click to expand...

You forget to account for the fact that Jason didn't necessarily know that contact had been made between Jon and Mees at the time of his account. Therefore you putting the smear on him is unjustified (and ironic considering your stance on this matter), given that he may only be calling it as he experienced it. Did he blame Jon directly for Mees' cards?

Your second suggestion that this whole thing should have been kept quiet... I don't know what to say. Theft is theft. Mees made it clear that Jon had returned the cards. Gino hasn't returned the laptop. His experience with the hotel security and Vancouver police is documented. He hasn't done anything wrong based on the info we have, and has every right to call out the people responsible (with sound evidence, even). Whether he would have gotten the stolen articles back had things been kept quiet is another assumption you make, and is irrelevant to the fact that both Gino and Jon did something wrong in rummaging through someone else's property (that they had no right to) and taking something without permission.

Hard to believe this can even be defended. There's video, picture, and written evidence of the whole thing... people have been banned for way less than this.

- - - Updated - - -

BobTehHobo said:
Did you read Jon's account of it?
A) He initially went to Mees's room to ask for his stuff. Mees had already checked out and the room was empty. Since he hadn't heard from Mees, he thought they were stealing his stuff.
B) When he was taking his stuff he also accidentally grabbed one of Mees's boxes that looked like his.
Click to expand...

So he knew he was missing something.
He knew what he was missing - that's why he helped himself to someone else's luggage.
He knew what he was missing, but still took something extra by "accident".

Right....
 
BobTehHobo said:
Did you read Jon's account of it?
A) He initially went to Mees's room to ask for his stuff. Mees had already checked out and the room was empty. Since he hadn't heard from Mees, he thought they were stealing his stuff.
B) When he was taking his stuff he also accidentally grabbed one of Mees's boxes that looked like his.
Click to expand...

Did he post in this thread? otherwise no I did not. I don't tend to dwell on every site there is....
 
Bilbo Baggins said:
Did he post in this thread? otherwise no I did not. I don't tend to dwell on every site there is....
Click to expand...

That quoted timeline comes from my recounting of the events here, as shared by the players on Monday August 12 on the HeyFonte group.

http://i.imgur.com/SGdhCwe.png

It's worth noting that it's impossible to tell if this story from Jon is the truth or not, but it's what he explained that day to the community.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top