Professor Dav
Master Trainer
Jason,
If you would like to discuss this further, I am happy to set aside time for you at Nationals.
Thank you,
Prof Dav
Time limit for US Nationals Top Cut has been announced!
- Thread starter Mystery Thing
- Start date
Jason,
If you would like to discuss this further, I am happy to set aside time for you at Nationals.
Thank you,
Prof Dav
wait, you really believe the OP team revamped the US nats schedule in the 8 days since pooka's thread started, and BECAUSE of it?
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Professor Dav
Master Trainer
What I'm saying is, that we were working on a number of different ideas for Sunday, and many of those ideas needed approval from people above me in TPCi.
Until such approval was gained, we could not finalize exactly what the plan for Sunday would be. Our goal the entire time was to make Sunday all about the finals, and the players in the finals. Doing this would also mean that we would certainly be able to increase the SEF round times to 75 minutes.
Thank you,
Prof Dav
carlitosbob
New Member
The community has been talking about wanting top cut extended for at least 2 years actually.
Ness
Member
I'm sorry, I did not realize you were living in a cave for the last three years players have been asking for longer time limits for matches.
Prodigiosus
New Member
Any chance of VGC top cut being extended to Top 32?
Vegeta ss4
Iron Chef Leader
All the bashing aside, great move here. I'm hoping more great moves happen for the future if this game. It is in my opinion in a slippery slope, lets get this game back.
PS-Yes, I'm saying the game is dying to an extent. The youngers players which is what this game is all about don't seem to be flocking in like they used to. The Masters are qutting due to the moves that's happening with the game. Hopefully we work on a few things regarding that before this game turns into an online only game.
PS-Yes, I'm saying the game is dying to an extent. The youngers players which is what this game is all about don't seem to be flocking in like they used to. The Masters are qutting due to the moves that's happening with the game. Hopefully we work on a few things regarding that before this game turns into an online only game.
BrightRush
New Member
Great move, The change is really nice for the game.
Squeaks101
New Member
David,
I almost never post to the Gym, but I am an avid member within the community. I have never actually taken part in a discussion involving the board, or upper level members of TPCi, but I'd like to. You offered a time slot to Jason for nationals, but I must follow up with a question that came to my mind...
Why not allow a panel at nationals, maybe a day prior to, that would allow the community to speak with the respective forum of members that do decide what is in store for the game?
You appear to have came here with an obvious passive aggressive tone only to back off when the threat became more than you could handle. I believe you ignorantly pointed out the, youthful, vocal-minority that constantly plagues the community, while failing to acknowledge the proper amount of respect for the portion of the community that attempts to make your game prosper, with or without the help of TPCi. You believe that many of us do not take into account that you are a company looking to clearly create better profit margins, as was noted by your comment that many of us do not take into account things your company does. Well let me tell you that many of us do notice exactly the type of things TPCi does consider, such as
1. Cutting prize support for masters (your largest competitive player base) to enhance profit.
2. Extending the amount of regionals/states/cities/battle roads/etc., not in an effort to "give the players more of a chance to play", but in an effort at making the game more visible. It is clearly an attempt at making the circuit more "year round" in an effort to compete with more competitive games such as Yu-gi-oh and Magic.
Believe me, we see your considerations. You want an awesome recommendation to help fuel your profit margins without hindering your community? How about you quit making Pokemon Center Exclusive TCG/VGC/memorabilia/etc. overseas, and bring some of it stateside. Many players have already demonstrated that they are more than willing to pay for additional products, even if it requires large import fees. Instead of cutting corners, why not just expand your sales market to include the US and Europe on many of those major "hot" items? I know you will tell me these things are far above you and out of your control, but everyone has a voice Mr. Schwimmer. It is best time you change the tone of your voice from passive-aggressive to constructive. It would get the game, the company, and you, much farther in all your endeavors. I wish you the best. Let me know the best time we can meet at nationals.
Sincerely,
Shaun K.
I almost never post to the Gym, but I am an avid member within the community. I have never actually taken part in a discussion involving the board, or upper level members of TPCi, but I'd like to. You offered a time slot to Jason for nationals, but I must follow up with a question that came to my mind...
Why not allow a panel at nationals, maybe a day prior to, that would allow the community to speak with the respective forum of members that do decide what is in store for the game?
You appear to have came here with an obvious passive aggressive tone only to back off when the threat became more than you could handle. I believe you ignorantly pointed out the, youthful, vocal-minority that constantly plagues the community, while failing to acknowledge the proper amount of respect for the portion of the community that attempts to make your game prosper, with or without the help of TPCi. You believe that many of us do not take into account that you are a company looking to clearly create better profit margins, as was noted by your comment that many of us do not take into account things your company does. Well let me tell you that many of us do notice exactly the type of things TPCi does consider, such as
1. Cutting prize support for masters (your largest competitive player base) to enhance profit.
2. Extending the amount of regionals/states/cities/battle roads/etc., not in an effort to "give the players more of a chance to play", but in an effort at making the game more visible. It is clearly an attempt at making the circuit more "year round" in an effort to compete with more competitive games such as Yu-gi-oh and Magic.
Believe me, we see your considerations. You want an awesome recommendation to help fuel your profit margins without hindering your community? How about you quit making Pokemon Center Exclusive TCG/VGC/memorabilia/etc. overseas, and bring some of it stateside. Many players have already demonstrated that they are more than willing to pay for additional products, even if it requires large import fees. Instead of cutting corners, why not just expand your sales market to include the US and Europe on many of those major "hot" items? I know you will tell me these things are far above you and out of your control, but everyone has a voice Mr. Schwimmer. It is best time you change the tone of your voice from passive-aggressive to constructive. It would get the game, the company, and you, much farther in all your endeavors. I wish you the best. Let me know the best time we can meet at nationals.
Sincerely,
Shaun K.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
Probably shouldn't say most of what I want to say in reply to this, so I'll just say this:
Calling out the head of OP on a public forum is probably not the best way to score yourself any points with anybody.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
Anywho, this thread is about how long the top cut rounds are, not whether or not anybody thinks that TPCI should be listening to them or whether or not you approve of how they operate things.
Time to steer it back on topic, everybody. Locking a thread that's supposed to be news would kinda suck, but it's not something I won't do.
Time to steer it back on topic, everybody. Locking a thread that's supposed to be news would kinda suck, but it's not something I won't do.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
Sorry to misdirect the topic, but I kind of really needed to let this out.
You do realize it is comments like the one you just made that force TPCi to behave in this manner. In so many words, he compared you to spoiled children, because that's how many are behaving.
Instead of aggressively arguing for what you want, and condoning the badmouthing others make towards TPCi, perhaps you should rethink your approach and instead of ranting about why certain actions should be taken, or engaging in personal attacks (like the one cited above), you should try to consider the other pieces at play and offer constructive feedback so the people at TPCi can do what they really want to, which is to enrich the game.
I can tell you upfront, Pokemon and many of those involved highly value professionalism, and if you approached them in a professional manner, and gave them time to process your requests, then you may just have a higher chance of something happening. You've been around for a long time, and I'm sure you've caught on to that by now.
The constant whining and bashing does not help you, your cause, or anyone else, it just creates tension and destructive feelings between players and TPCi and those in between. If you want to make progress, then be the bigger man, and talk to them on an equal level. It's hard, that can't be denied, but at least it'd be more constructive for everyone, and we could try to take that much needed step forward.
TPCi can't be expected to do all the work here. The player base also has to take the initiative and be willing to work with Pokemon, and I don't mean criticizing every action they make. Players need to cooperate with TPCi too instead of resisting every action they make. Yes I'm being vague in how you can help, but that's because I don't know myself what needs to be done, but I'm sure we as a community can cooperate.
Or you can just ignore this entire post, and continue too complain and insult me and others for not falling into your ideal thoughts of how Pokemon should work, and continue making mountains out of molehills. That's...well it's a possible result anyway.
As for the top cut times, its really nice, especially the fact that everyone can enjoy both the top matches of TCG and VGC if they want to.
You do realize it is comments like the one you just made that force TPCi to behave in this manner. In so many words, he compared you to spoiled children, because that's how many are behaving.
Instead of aggressively arguing for what you want, and condoning the badmouthing others make towards TPCi, perhaps you should rethink your approach and instead of ranting about why certain actions should be taken, or engaging in personal attacks (like the one cited above), you should try to consider the other pieces at play and offer constructive feedback so the people at TPCi can do what they really want to, which is to enrich the game.
I can tell you upfront, Pokemon and many of those involved highly value professionalism, and if you approached them in a professional manner, and gave them time to process your requests, then you may just have a higher chance of something happening. You've been around for a long time, and I'm sure you've caught on to that by now.
The constant whining and bashing does not help you, your cause, or anyone else, it just creates tension and destructive feelings between players and TPCi and those in between. If you want to make progress, then be the bigger man, and talk to them on an equal level. It's hard, that can't be denied, but at least it'd be more constructive for everyone, and we could try to take that much needed step forward.
TPCi can't be expected to do all the work here. The player base also has to take the initiative and be willing to work with Pokemon, and I don't mean criticizing every action they make. Players need to cooperate with TPCi too instead of resisting every action they make. Yes I'm being vague in how you can help, but that's because I don't know myself what needs to be done, but I'm sure we as a community can cooperate.
Or you can just ignore this entire post, and continue too complain and insult me and others for not falling into your ideal thoughts of how Pokemon should work, and continue making mountains out of molehills. That's...well it's a possible result anyway.
As for the top cut times, its really nice, especially the fact that everyone can enjoy both the top matches of TCG and VGC if they want to.
Note: Discussion of this topic can continue.
THIS TOPIC.
If anyone wants to start a "here's what's wrong with Pokemon OP" or any other thread like that on our forums, PLEASE DO SO.
Yes, it IS allowed. But it needs to be its own thread.
We are not blocking discussion. The mods are keeping THIS thread on topic.
Start another topic to... do whatever it is you think are trying to accomplish.
THIS TOPIC.
If anyone wants to start a "here's what's wrong with Pokemon OP" or any other thread like that on our forums, PLEASE DO SO.
Yes, it IS allowed. But it needs to be its own thread.
We are not blocking discussion. The mods are keeping THIS thread on topic.
Start another topic to... do whatever it is you think are trying to accomplish.
I think what Jason was most upset about was saying that players were in no way responsible for the change to 75 minutes, which is false. If 60 minutes was enough time to finish most 2/3 matches there would have been a problem at all, and everyone would have been happy to keep it that way.
I'd like to than TOs like Vince Krekler, Jimmy Ballard and others for testing the 75 minute limits at their events this year, proving that not only can 75 work within a schedule, but results in everyone in the cut having a better experience and not having to discount some deck choices due to worrying about them failing in cut.
As a teacher of young children, I know that at the end of the day what most people want isn't some kind of special treatment, but a fair shake.
I'd like to than TOs like Vince Krekler, Jimmy Ballard and others for testing the 75 minute limits at their events this year, proving that not only can 75 work within a schedule, but results in everyone in the cut having a better experience and not having to discount some deck choices due to worrying about them failing in cut.
As a teacher of young children, I know that at the end of the day what most people want isn't some kind of special treatment, but a fair shake.
Bigbowlr1037
New Member
Maybe I missed it somewhere but with Saturday being reserved to play all of topcut down to top 2 in each division does that mean the Swiss rounds will still be split over Friday and Saturday? Because that would seem to lend itself better to all 9 Swiss on Friday then top 128 - top 4 on Saturday rather then 5 rounds friday and cramming 11 rounds in Saturday.
psychup2034
New Member
Overall, this is a great move by TPCi. I'm glad to see Nationals top cut times extended to 75 minutes, and I'm also glad to see this information communicated in a timely fashion. In my opinion, this is a great move for the game!
I also think the decision to hold Nats LCQs on Sunday is a great addition to the event. Kudos to TPCi for doing this.
While a 60 minute time limit will allow some great matches to be played, a 75 minute time limit will allow more great matches to be played. I think it's telling that 7 out of the 8 top 16 matches at last year's Nationals went to time. It's even worse that the finals of the National championships was played drastically differently because the two players started game 3 with a "first prize wins" mentality.
I also think the decision to hold Nats LCQs on Sunday is a great addition to the event. Kudos to TPCi for doing this.
While a 60 minute time limit will allow some great matches to be played, a 75 minute time limit will allow more great matches to be played. I think it's telling that 7 out of the 8 top 16 matches at last year's Nationals went to time. It's even worse that the finals of the National championships was played drastically differently because the two players started game 3 with a "first prize wins" mentality.
I am about as pleased as Dave is by the tone that a handful of folks have chosen to take on this issue but I think/hope that we are simply using the word "lobby" differently.
When Dave talks about lobbying he is referring to the kind of threads where we are preemptively smeared at the mere thought that we might not do (insert action a vocal minority decides to champion in that thread), and folks are given the idea that if everyone is just loud enough, we will be forced to do what you want.
End of the day, that is just not how the world works.
When players work with their local TO's to try a change, that is working towards a solution. When TO's are able to show us data on the impact of those changes, that gives us something to work with. As Dave said, not everything that "works" locally work for our goals or get approved but this is the kind of effort that allows things to get done. All without anyone suggesting that someone needs to lose their job.
Oh and as a side note: You have given community pressure credit for some really odd things recently. For example, claiming that the community response was the reason that a player was penalized for breaking the rules is actually pretty bizarre. In the case you cited in another recent thread, we saw evidence that a rule had been broken, we took into account a history of behavior, and we applied the appropriate penalty. Same as we would have if no one but us and the player knew about it.
I suppose it a good thing that we are professionals then. You will note that despite the vitriol thrown our way in a recent thread we made the decision we thought was best, because that is what we do. What Dave was pointing out is that the behavior he described does not help make the case.
Because these things are not decided by a community committee. As I noted above there are already constructive ways to contract us with ideas and there are ways to work within the system to get things done.
"..more than you can handle."? Are you implying that it takes some kind of toughness or fortitude to argue on the internet? Like it is a good thing?
Another perspective might be that he was actually pretty direct and then chose to take the conversation to a one on one with a person he knows pretty well once it became clear that the conversation was not going to be productive . A spectacle does not really help resolve these kinds of differences.
Except for this part of course:
Your version of why we make the calls we do actually proves Dave's point: You can't actually fully understand why we do the things we do. It's not a slight on you, how could you take those things into account without being an employee here? The point is that if you decide that you know why we are doing a thing and you find that it makes no sense, arguing against the logic that you just made up does not help change things.
Here is where I do what you expected and point out that this is not controlled by our department. Like, at all.
So you want to imply that Dave retreated from an online argument because he could not take it, call him passive aggressive and more, and then imply that he should be your advocate to other departments on topics which you already know he does not control, all while assuming that he has not already done so. That about right?
Was this actually meant to be constructive or have I just been trolled?
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