Time Limit for US Nationals Top Cut?

[NoPoke]

Everyone slows down when they become fatigued. A mental task that may take a couple of minutes in the morning when fresh takes longer when tired.

So adding time which makes a day longer does not automatically make for more turns or even better thought out turns. It can actually have a negative impact upon both. For the single day event that I ran with a 75 minute top cut I did not see the benefits that more time could produce. For two day events that have plenty of spare time I would expect 75 minutes to show an improvement. For two day events I'd also expect 60 minutes from fresh players to be superior to 75 minutes from fatigued players.

making an argument that 75 minutes is always superior probably wont work. This close to USA nationals the best argument will be one based upon there being sufficient time in the schedule and that even with relatively fresh players in previous years games still went to time. But was this the case? Did lots of matches in the top cut go to extra time? Or is it only the final that players are recalling?

 

[FunnyBear]

Even the cheapest chess clock costs $25 a pop. For a tournament like US Nationals, that's nearly twenty grand, or about half of the prize support for the entire tournament. How are they paying for these things, may I ask?

The US Open in Chess has 1500 people. Thats $37,500 for chess clocks. Lots of people buy high end clocks too, just like lots of players here foil out their decks for an additional $200. How on Earth did $60,000 worth of clocks get paid for? Probably the same way $250,000 worth of decks get paid for at Nats and $9000 worth of dice. The only issue with chess clocks is how to deal with decisions the opponent makes on your time (in chess there are none). Its not that complicated, when you make a decision and are waiting for your opponent, you hit your clock. This applies to end of turn or end of decision. I've coached many scholastic chess events and have not had problems having this understood by the age group we consider Juniors in Pokemon.

 

[CeNturist]

Chess Clocks are a terrible decision. Some turns and actions take more time than others. If someone's stalling, just call a judge.

 

[Otaku]

But to avoid derailing the thread...

...too late.

I hope we can get back to the point of this thread; that announcing the Time Limit for US Nationals prior to the event is most definitely a "good" thing. If we are to understand that such a thing is seldom going to vary, let us know that instead. I allow that perhaps the decision is still being made: I would not be surprised if the same heated debate over time had by fans (few wouldn't prefer more time for top cut, but good arguments have been made for why that isn't feasible) happens with the-powers-that-be; they often want to do stuff but can't because of considerations like budget or feasibility.

So let us give them time but also gently remind them that any player wanting to attend Nationals needs to be settling on a deck ASAP because a few weeks isn't much testing time for the average player for a tournament of this magnitude. :thumb:

 

[Team Cook]

Some decks are at a huge disadvantage in a 60 minute situation, but they would have a better chance if 75 or even 90 minutes were implemented. The information is crucial to have well in advance of the tournament.

So, in a nutshell, you want TPCi to tell a small group of players what to play. Wouldn't that be a disadvantage to a larger group of players?

 

[KazamBolt]

So, in a nutshell, you want TPCi to tell a small group of players what to play. Wouldn't that be a disadvantage to a larger group of players?

Not at all. We want TPCi to publicly announce the time limit so that everyone knows what advantages or disadvantages they will have before they go into the tournament. That will allow everyone to make their deck choices accordingly and ensure that we don't receive any nasty surprises halfway through the tournament.

 

[Team Cook]

Not at all. We want TPCi to publicly announce the time limit so that everyone knows what advantages or disadvantages they will have before they go into the tournament. That will allow everyone to make their deck choices accordingly and ensure that we don't receive any nasty surprises halfway through the tournament.

Nasty surprises? For the most part, doesn't everyone already know that top cut will either be 60+3 or 75+3? That's not a surprise.

By looking at this thread, the small amount of players, for the most part demanding a time in advance, almost looks like a "team" of players wanting information to build special decks to take advantage of the time limit.

Or you could look at it a different way, time limit given, everyone building the same decks to take advantage, then wouldn't that be somewhat boring at Nationals, a bunch of mirror matches?

By TPCi not given a time would probably bring in different decks thus making the tournament more interesting?

I'm not against this, I have no dog in this hunt, I'm just making an observation.

 

[Yoshi-]

"By TPCi not given a time would probably bring in different decks thus making the tournament more interesting?"

And some players would bring decks that cant even win, Im sure theyll be happy. A tournament strcuture has to be known before the tournament starts so that players can prepare accordingly. Imagine if theyd suddenly announce "well we'll do 40 min b03", everyone not playing a speed deck might as well drop and go home at that point. By not announcing the time limit players cant make educated decisions when choosing a deck but have to gamble.

If the tournament is boring because players can prepare under fair conditions then something else is the issue, I cant even comprehend the thought behind "lets throw random obstacles at players to make it more interesting". You basically ask for players to be put at a disadvantage because giving everyone the same chances would be boring?!

At the last prague cup I played magnezone/typhlosion. Then they announced that tops would be changed to b03 40 miinutes (or something ridiculus like that) and I instantly knew that there was no point in even playing anymore. I obviously lost in timeout when I was in a really good position to take it and speed zekrom (which IMO was an awful deck) won all 3 divisions. Biggest joke of a tournament Ive ever seen.

 

[Pooka]

So, in a nutshell, you want TPCi to tell a small group of players what to play. Wouldn't that be a disadvantage to a larger group of players?

No, I want TPCi to tell the entire group of players what the time limit is so that everyone knows what it is beforehand. I don't understand how public information about basic tournament procedures somehow can be construed as someone gaining an advantage.

 

[Otaku]

So, in a nutshell, you want TPCi to tell a small group of players what to play. Wouldn't that be a disadvantage to a larger group of players?

Informing players of the time restrictions being used for matches should be no less expected than informing players of what TCG format the tournament will use (Unlimited, Modified, etc.); the consequences of a player being unaware of the top cut's time limit is much less devastating than finding out some surprise decision to have the top cut only switch to the 2013-2014 rotation, but the underlying principle is the same.

How is it putting players at a disadvantage to officially announce the rules for the tournament in which they will be competing? Your follow up post didn't clarify things for me.

 

[Scizor]

Absolutely embarassing that this information hasn't been announced yet. Equally embarassing that people are actually defending it! No surprise on this site, though.

 

[GodBlessAmerica]

I've gone to time only once this season, and I have played a LOT of top cut matches (the match I played that went to time was in swiss at NY states). I find it hard to understand why so many players have trouble finishing on time.

However they definitely should be responsible and post the Time limit asap

 

[TheRolesWePlay]

Absolutely embarassing that this information hasn't been announced yet. Equally embarassing that people are actually defending it! No surprise on this site, though.

Embarassing...yes, because expecting them to release information, that has never been teased or announced in the past is embarassing?

What I find embarassing is the over reactive nature people are taking to...well everything these days. Someone raises a single question meant to provide people something to consider and reflect upon, and instead people get offended and explode instead.

 

[psychup2034]

What I find embarassing is the over reactive nature people are taking to...well everything these days. Someone raises a single question meant to provide people something to consider and reflect upon, and instead people get offended and explode instead.

Frustration over TPCi's failure to release the time limit for Nationals is not an "overreaction." Your reaction demonstrates that you lack a rudimentary knowledge of how the time structure of tournaments can affect a player's preparation. Perhaps you should go to some Pokemon tournaments and learn how time is an important factor when playing. Maybe then you'll understand why it's important for TPCi to communicate the time limits to its customers.

 

[HotGustofWind]

Nothing for Nats, but for Worlds, it has been posted that it is 60 minutes.

"Single-elimination finals will be a best-of-three game format. Each single-elimination round will last 60 minutes plus 3 turns."

 

[TheRolesWePlay]

Frustration over TPCi's failure to release the time limit for Nationals is not an "overreaction." Your reaction demonstrates that you lack a rudimentary knowledge of how the time structure of tournaments can affect a player's preparation. Perhaps you should go to some Pokemon tournaments and learn how time is an important factor when playing. Maybe then you'll understand why it's important for TPCi to communicate the time limits to its customers.

First of all that comment was targeted at complaints in general, in which a counterpoint is often ignored/neglected/or flat out rejected and falsely criticized because people would rather do so then actually consider the arguments offered. (which is why I said "...well everything these days.")

Second, this frustration is an overreaction because a simple request (Pooka's post) has since spawned numerous hateful and overly negative comments when there is no president or realistic reason why they would comply, especially at such a late date.

I do realize that timing is important (Contrary to what you believe, I do participate in events year round only skipping reg, Nats, and Worlds, for monetary reason, although I have been to all three), but that doesn't excuse the shameless outbursts throughout the thread in which. If time is such a big issue, then you should go based off of president of what previous years have clearly depicted. P!P is rather consistent with how it makes its decisions, and it isn't terribly dangerous to base your assumptions based of their previous behaviors.

 

[Team Cook]

No, I want TPCi to tell the entire group of players what the time limit is so that everyone knows what it is beforehand. I don't understand how public information about basic tournament procedures somehow can be construed as someone gaining an advantage.

Quoted Pooka but directed at everyone - Keep in mind, this is just my opinion, I got bored yesterday and started reading different things from different boards and pages.

I said a small group of players because I think only a small percentage of players will actually see that a time has been set for top cut. The players that see the time limit would have an advantage to build decks to work with the time limit while everyone else will just build their favorite decks to battle with. I also think that the small group would play something totally different IF they didn't know the time limit.

---------- Post added 06/14/2013 at 10:08 AM ----------

Absolutely embarassing that this information hasn't been announced yet. Equally embarassing that people are actually defending it! No surprise on this site, though.

I'm not defending anything, I just made an observation. For the record, I hope it is 75+3 for y'all.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[Otaku]

I said a small group of players because I think only a small percentage of players will actually see that a time has been set for top cut.

If a player going to Nationals is ignoring updates/announcements about Nationals... that would be his or her own fault.

The players that see the time limit would have an advantage to build decks to work with the time limit while everyone else will just build their favorite decks to battle with. I also think that the small group would play something totally different IF they didn't know the time limit.

"Advantage" (and perhaps this is just me) implies something above and beyond normal conditions... which is inaccurate. The players seeing a clearly announced time limit (as per the request of this thread); are just doing as they are expected to for an event. It is like claiming someone has an unfair advantage for knowing the rules of the game itself! Instead it is the person remaining ignorant of something he or she ought to be diligently paying attention to to that puts his or herself at a disadvantage.

To parallel: I wouldn't label it an "advantage" when driving that I read the Speed Limit signs; it is expected of me to do so. It is a self-inflicted disadvantage if I choose not to pay attention and miss the speed limit changing, and thus do not abide.

 

[Team Cook]

^^^ I understand your thought. I used the word advantage because of the quote I used from Pooka. I'm thinking he or anyone else would build a different deck depending on the time limit which I thought or think it could bean advantage.

Another thought, most players don't think about these things (their fault).

I'm done with this. I posted an opinion, not directed at anyone or meant to be mean spirited, just a thought.

I wish everyone the best of luck at Nationals.


See y'all soon.

 

[CFOURCOLTSFAN]

I expect the time limit for top cut to be posted in the middle of round 1 of top cut