I feel that the game should be based on time, like 30 minute matches, but when it gets down to the last 5 minutes of the game, they should make it, each player has 2 turns left, or something. I feel "legally" stalling is just as bad as "illegally" stalling. If I got stalled, either way, I would feel cheated. But I am happy that the people I play with have not tried to stall their way to a win before against me. I mean, maybe one point of view is that, "well, your playing cards you could have, not making good moves of course" but the other view could be, "If he would just hurry up and let me take my turn, the game could be over by now". I don't like stalling one bit, and to me, just my opinion, it's as bad as cheating. IMHO, the staller is abusing the set rules and manipulating them to win the game. I'm sorry, if I was given the two choices, to lose, or to stall out legally or illegally, I'd take the loss. I feel, its more sportsmanlike and fair to the other player. The player beat me fair and square, and should deserve the win. Stalling only shows that I would do anything to win, and I'm not like that.
Tyranitar666's World Championship Report
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Tyranitar666
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Yep! I'll do anything to win! I don't care haha. 95% of the time or more I can win on my own, but its those games where you get bad hands, or have horrible luck going against you, your stuck in those positions. Or when you have horrible match ups. It is the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS for a reason. Play your best no matter what it costs. For me, college tuition was on the line. I can afford to go to the college I've always wanted to now. I rolled with the bad match ups the only way I could and once I got to the t32 I got the pairings that were the most probable throughout the day. ( Magma and Blaze ) and won. If you play the game for fun, fine, it may not be the best way to play. I play the game to win. I play because I enjoy hanging with my friends who play, and because of the prizes. I've grown out of Pokemon awhile ago, but I love the players and the competition. I'll stay in the game because of this. I'm way too competitive of person though, so if your offended by my cutthroat outlook at the game, I'm sorry, but its how I play. I'm a nice guy when you play against me, but I'm going to do what it takes to win. I won't be shy about that.
Man, I'm agreeing with TTar on too many things. 
Yep, if he's playing cards, he's good to go. A judge can't tell someone that a legal move is a waste of time, just like I can't remind a player to flip for their Mind Games if they forget.
Think of it like the shot clock in basketball. A team can move the ball around the count to run down the clock, but only so much. Or even better, a football team can take their 30 seconds for the snap, or ground the ball to let the clock keep on running, but they can't take it out of bounds or the clock stops.
Not perfect analogies, but basically, if you're up, you can switch to a defensive game.
It's a big difference when someone is staring at their cards, doing nothing, or slowing looking through their discard, one card at a time, than when someone like Chris plays a Copycat when he doesn't really need to, or evolves a Pokemon and activates a Poke-power. How can a Judge tell him that he can't do those things? Or why should he not? Should he just give up and not try to do everything that his hand and cards in play allow him to do?
Yep, if he's playing cards, he's good to go. A judge can't tell someone that a legal move is a waste of time, just like I can't remind a player to flip for their Mind Games if they forget.
Think of it like the shot clock in basketball. A team can move the ball around the count to run down the clock, but only so much. Or even better, a football team can take their 30 seconds for the snap, or ground the ball to let the clock keep on running, but they can't take it out of bounds or the clock stops.
Not perfect analogies, but basically, if you're up, you can switch to a defensive game.
It's a big difference when someone is staring at their cards, doing nothing, or slowing looking through their discard, one card at a time, than when someone like Chris plays a Copycat when he doesn't really need to, or evolves a Pokemon and activates a Poke-power. How can a Judge tell him that he can't do those things? Or why should he not? Should he just give up and not try to do everything that his hand and cards in play allow him to do?
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Tyranitar666, PokePop , (and anyone else who plays to win at any cost), what would you do in the following situation?
In one of the games in the Grinder, I had paralyzed my opponent’s active pokemon and would likely knock it out on my next turn. My opponent didn’t turn the card sideways and, forgetting that it was paralyzed, attached an energy card to try and retreat. When I reminded him that the pokemon was paralyzed he asked if he could take back the energy and attach it to a different pokemon.
Should I have told the kid, “No, you took your hand off the energy so the play stands.” Or should I have let him take the energy back and attach it to a different Pokemon.
Would the stakes of the tournament or your record in the tournament in play change your decision in this scenario? What about the age or apparent ability of your opponent?
In one of the games in the Grinder, I had paralyzed my opponent’s active pokemon and would likely knock it out on my next turn. My opponent didn’t turn the card sideways and, forgetting that it was paralyzed, attached an energy card to try and retreat. When I reminded him that the pokemon was paralyzed he asked if he could take back the energy and attach it to a different pokemon.
Should I have told the kid, “No, you took your hand off the energy so the play stands.” Or should I have let him take the energy back and attach it to a different Pokemon.
Would the stakes of the tournament or your record in the tournament in play change your decision in this scenario? What about the age or apparent ability of your opponent?
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First off, I take some offense at what I said being taken as "win at any cost". What I described was fair play as described in the Tournament guidelines and does not include anything shady at all. I don't think you'll find a single opponent of mine that would characterize me that way.Adv1sor said:
As for your situation: If it were me, I probably would have allowed him to change his energy placement.
HOWEVER: I would not think any less of a player that did not allow him to change his energy placement, especially due to the stakes. And yes, the stakes and age of the opponent definately would play a part in my decision. When I play kids I go into a coaching mode and don't care if I win or lose. I will also keep my strategy simpler, if they are an unskilled player, than I would if they were an adept player.
My apologies. I didn't mean to offend anyone. Of course I meant doing anything within the rules to win. I did not mean to imply that anyone would justify going outside the rules to win.
I don't know the age of the "kid" in this case. He must have been 15+ or I wouldn't have faced him in the Grinder. I did let him take back his energy and replay it, as I would have done for anyone. I won the game anyway.
I am struggling with the idea of playing the game in a more cut-throat, win-at-all legal cost, attitude.
Your analogy of running out the clock in a basketball or football game is apt. But where do you draw the line? Stalling is against the rules in Pokemon, it's not against the rules in football (within a specific time period). If you make legal plays in Pokemon just to stall, even though you can’t be penalized for it, are you not breaking the rules to win?
I don't know the age of the "kid" in this case. He must have been 15+ or I wouldn't have faced him in the Grinder. I did let him take back his energy and replay it, as I would have done for anyone. I won the game anyway.
I am struggling with the idea of playing the game in a more cut-throat, win-at-all legal cost, attitude.
Your analogy of running out the clock in a basketball or football game is apt. But where do you draw the line? Stalling is against the rules in Pokemon, it's not against the rules in football (within a specific time period). If you make legal plays in Pokemon just to stall, even though you can’t be penalized for it, are you not breaking the rules to win?
ShawofMordor
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Adv1sor said:
Stalling is illegal? So like if your opponent has 4 cards in his deck but only one prize you aren't allowed to try and stall so he decks?
Tyranitar666
New Member
I would not let them re attach the energy at Worlds. In a lesser tournament, I would not let them reattach the energy, no matter what the age, unless I was 100% garunteed to still win the game. Such as, they have no energy in play, are down 4-5 prizes, and I have a bex and 3 Blaziken built up. Than I don't care. When there is any variable left to the game, why risk it?
And ILLEGAL stalling is DIFFERENT from STALLING guys. Thats what has to be realized. The rules say excessive stalling through illegal non game play related means is ILLEGAL. Stalling by using in game tactics is perfectly fine and not illegal. Simple as that.
And ILLEGAL stalling is DIFFERENT from STALLING guys. Thats what has to be realized. The rules say excessive stalling through illegal non game play related means is ILLEGAL. Stalling by using in game tactics is perfectly fine and not illegal. Simple as that.
No, the rules say,
I agree that there is no way that the judge can penalize you if you are making valid plays. But if you are doing so only to stall for time in a game that you would otherwise lose then you are not attempting to complete your match in the allotted time. You are intentionaly stalling for time to win. This is wrong. You will get away with it, but that doesn't make it right.
I agree that there is no way that the judge can penalize you if you are making valid plays. But if you are doing so only to stall for time in a game that you would otherwise lose then you are not attempting to complete your match in the allotted time. You are intentionaly stalling for time to win. This is wrong. You will get away with it, but that doesn't make it right.
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Tyranitar666
New Member
Its perfectly right. Completing does not mean give up a win or draw because of the timer. It means do your best to take every option to win but without taking excess time to do this. Completion doesn't mean opting not to do things just so the opponent gets a fair shot. Completion could also be interpretted to mean do everything, thus complete. Theres no reason to do less than your able to. Every move can make a difference. I think it doesn't matter anyways, its done with, it was legal, and I'd have no qualms doing it again. We'll leave it at that.
I'm not much on the same path as Adv1sor, trying to state that it is illegal. I just really don't feel it's very sportsmanlike or fair to the other player to stall out for the win because if time was not a matter, the other player would have won the match fair and square or atleast had the chance to tie it up and make it sudden death. To me, a player should have more respect for the other players enough to not stall them out when they truely deserved the win.
But heck, different players think alike.
But heck, different players think alike.
Tyranitar666
New Member
If there were no time limits on a game they would be played much differently. I would take the time to memorize every card in my deck the moment I strike and run and overanalyze and figure out percentages of EVERYTHING. I would try and organize my opponents deck list in my head. Time has more than just a stalling effect on games. Seeing how of all the match ups, Gardevoir was the one I was least prepared for ( was using either Metabyss or Shiftry, both auto wins vs Gardy ) I really would have benefitted by having more time to analyze the match up. So to say that someone would have won had their not been a time limit is pure speculation as time affects how players go about a match up. Jason K ( Ness ) used this exact strategy against a Magcargo deck in the finals of the FAT, keeping the entire game at a slower pace because he knew his deck loses the match up, and because of this, he won. Very smart move, dictating the pass of a game. It is simply another way a player can help overcome the ingame luck aspect.
Also, sportsmanship isn't a bad quality to have, but I consider it more along the lines of being nice to your opponent and not being an obnoxious braggart. Stalling doesn't apply IMO. Its a legal in game move. I would rather lose by an opponent stalling me out than on a bad game. If someone stalls me out, I would be upset, but no more upset than any other loss, and I would at least have more respect for the skill of my opponent because they come to win. Thats my complete honest view on it. If someone shows an edge in our game, I'm more than happy to take the loss.
Also, sportsmanship isn't a bad quality to have, but I consider it more along the lines of being nice to your opponent and not being an obnoxious braggart. Stalling doesn't apply IMO. Its a legal in game move. I would rather lose by an opponent stalling me out than on a bad game. If someone stalls me out, I would be upset, but no more upset than any other loss, and I would at least have more respect for the skill of my opponent because they come to win. Thats my complete honest view on it. If someone shows an edge in our game, I'm more than happy to take the loss.
I agree with Colin and Pop.....
Two important elements in the game are
1. Make fewer mistakes than your opponent...
2. Time management.......
This is especially true during important matches.....
you try to take advantage of your opponents mistakes
and utilize the clock just as you would any card in your deck...
as long as it's within the rules and guidelines of the game....
In the "big events" you play to win....honorably yes....but definitely
play to win......
like pop.....when playing younger kids i also go into teaching mode
and have lost many a game by coaching my opponent to a win.....
Two important elements in the game are
1. Make fewer mistakes than your opponent...
2. Time management.......
This is especially true during important matches.....
you try to take advantage of your opponents mistakes
and utilize the clock just as you would any card in your deck...
as long as it's within the rules and guidelines of the game....
In the "big events" you play to win....honorably yes....but definitely
play to win......
like pop.....when playing younger kids i also go into teaching mode
and have lost many a game by coaching my opponent to a win.....
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