VG Autumn regionals info up!

[Synre]

Thanks for weakening the power of the byes from Regionals in VGC because that was pretty ridiculous last year due to us playing fewer rounds and having fewer people cut but having the same amount of byes distributed. Between that and the top cut at Regionals for VGC I'm actually really ecstatic about the format changes in VGC this year even in spite of the drop in prize money. I was a little bummed to see VGC still isn't included in States, but this was another nice step for our side of things this year (and you have cleverly tricked most of the VGC players into picking up the TCG by combining Regionals so I guess I'll be travelling to those anyway).

I'd expected that drop was more deliberate than it seems to have been, since we have to generate significantly less revenue for you guys than TCGers do since most of us would buy the games anyway and there's no sort of per event profit from us, and I would expect our events to pay out less to compensate... it has always been strange to me that our Regional prizes are so strong by comparison. We'd definitely appreciate the prizes being knocked back up if the reduction wasn't intentional(especially since we have so few events to try to earn anything from by comparison), but I think there's more people in our camp that would understand the kids getting the focus of the prize pool than in the TCG camp. Most of the people who I've seen have really volatile reactions to the announcement from the VGC group were the younger guys in the 15-19 range(especially graduating Seniors) who don't have the disposable interest some of the rest of us do. Obviously, it kinda bites for them since with the current system they're the ones who have the misfortune of being on the bottom of Masters(not that it hurt Wolfe any, or that it'll hurt Aaron and his incredibly badly named PokeGym account, but for most of the players), but I guess it has to be someone.

It'd be pretty disingenuous for me to try to justify complaining about not having the chance to win extra money at Regionals when I got into Worlds by paying my way to Hawaii, so I'm just thankful that changes were made to make the results of our tournaments a little more legitimate. I can't imagine anyone was silly enough to be playing VGC for the prizes before, anyway...

I do worry about the Seniors/Juniors thing, though, since obviously luring them with the prize money isn't working in VGC if we had those prizes to begin with and they still weren't coming. Have always had a hard time maintaining people in those age groups on the video game sites I've worked with too. Not sure what the answer is there, just seems like too many kids start losing interest when it starts to be "uncool".



I should add that considering where things were in 2009 for VGC it's pretty amazing that we're even complaining about some of the things were are now. Things have improved really quickly, I hope we don't sound too ungrateful.

 

[dtrain]

Hi Dave, thank you for replying back regarding our concerns with the travel awards. I know you guys at TPCI can't always make everyone happy but as everyone has already posted, cutting off the 3rd and 4th for the Masters division DOES make a difference. I know you all want to increase attendance at Nationals but its kind of a "slap in the face" for us Masters players when travel awards aren't divided amongst the division. Even $200 would go a long way for a player playing in the Masters Division. Definitely looking forward to any changes you decide to make.

 

[Crawdaunt]

Thanks for nipping this thread in the butt professor dav!

I... am a tad shocked at just how much flat out hate that is spouted on these forums regarding prize announcements. I...I don't understand why players are ridiculous enough as to threaten to quite the game etc... over changes every year.

Keep doing what you guys do best. We'll leave the health of the game in TPCi's hands.

 

[psychup2034]

I... am a tad shocked at just how much flat out hate that is spouted on these forums regarding prize announcements. I...I don't understand why players are ridiculous enough as to threaten to quite the game etc... over changes every year.

You shouldn't be surprised. Players get angry because they care. I would be very concerned about the game if people stopped getting angry when prize support is cut, because that would show that no-one cares anymore.

It's the same reason parents get angry at their kids when they do something wrong/stupid. The parents want their children to do better, and stop making bad decisions. Likewise, the players are asking the same from TPCi.

 

[Synre]

I think you're putting the players on the wrong side of that metaphor

 

[psychup2034]

I think you're putting the players on the wrong side of that metaphor

I'm not.

Speaking strictly from the TCG side, the players want TPCi to do better. For example, a $400/$400/$200 split would have been better than $500/$500/$0.

 

[Synre]

Better for you or better for the game?

You're sitting there demanding more for yourself regardless of the needs of others and external factors. Does that sound like the parent or a child? Let them do their jobs.

 

[psychup2034]

Better for you or better for the game?

Better for the game. I am fortunate enough to have all the financial means necessary to play the game (cards, travel, etc.) without straining my budget. As I've said many times before (on this forum, on social media, or at tournaments), I now donate all of the prize money I earn from Pokemon to charity. I couldn't care less about a 3-figure purse. (If you want to know more about my background, I laid it out here.)

The unfair and inequitable distribution of prize support in the trading card game hurts the game because players are feeling slighted and screwed by the changes. Ultimately, TPCi could've made a more defensible decision ($400/$400/$200 split) and not make a large majority of players feel disparaged. (The $400/$400/$200 split is defensible because Juniors and Seniors need to transport 2 people.)

If everyone playing the game were in my shoes, I would recommend that they completely remove prize support and spend that money on advertising. Obviously, the game isn't being played by 20,000 versions of me. An equitable and fair division of prize support is essential for the player base, which are the people who play the game.

 

[atlas]

It'd be pretty disingenuous for me to try to justify complaining about not having the chance to win extra money at Regionals when I got into Worlds by paying my way to Hawaii

i thought mommy and daddy paid for that trip

 

[psychup2034]

You're sitting there demanding more for yourself regardless of the needs of others and external factors. Does that sound like the parent or a child?

You couldn't be more wrong on this one. I'm demanding more for my peers, taking into consideration the needs of other players and external factors. It certainly sounds like I'm being the "parent" here.

If I wanted to be selfish/greedy, I wouldn't waste my time posting here, because I personally don't give a damn what prize support looks like.

 

[Synre]

Your peers are your own in-group. Defending their interests and your own over that of the longer term health of the game is the epitome of being myopic; you're letting perspective and emotion skew your judgement of what the best decision for TPCI is here. TPCI could have made the prize values 400/400/399 and people would have still felt "slighted" because they were getting less than someone else, not because they were getting nothing, especially considering Juniors/Seniors are groups that most Masters seem to feel they deserve to be valued over because there are more of them. TPCi could avoid "screwing" that demographic all they want and end up with a game that has a playerbase that's too small to be healthy in a few years because the Masters are still going to age and move on and someone has to be there to replace them.

I'm actually not a huge fan of the way money was spit this year just because at least in VGC's case, 333/333/333 would likely have had the same failure to pull Seniors/Juniors that 600 did already and then this slighting-Masters-to-avoid-mortgaging-the-future argument could have happened over something that would be more likely to actually have an impact(perhaps doing something really crazy like advertising). You won't have any prize money to donate to charity if there's no tournaments in a few years and your friends won't have any tournaments to play in regardless of whether or not they have the money to travel to them. The choice to focus on the future health of the enterprise isn't wrong.

If you want to look out for your friends do what you can to make sure there's still a game for them to play.

 

[psychup2034]

Your peers are your own in-group. Defending their interests and your own over that of the longer term health of the game is the epitome of being myopic, you're letting perspective and emotion skew your judgement of what the best decision for TPCI is here.

I'll quote someone else to help me counter your point. It's not clear that TPCi has made the best decision of the game. In fact, the opinion of most players is that TPCi has not made the best decision for the game. That's why people are upset.

As a loyal customer and fan of Pokémon for 10+ years, I really am starting to fear what may happen if these sorts of decisions continue. Without a doubt, this game has the potential to grow and be much bigger than it is. If these trends continue, though, we may start to lose more players than we gain. While I don't think that 15+ will be eliminated again, it's tough to forget what happened under WotC. If you sleight the Masters - the foundation of the game - the results will not be good.

 

[Synre]

The slippery slope is a logical fallacy for a reason. No one advocated deleting the Masters division. Choosing to focus on building other parts of the program is not a slight.

 

[psychup2034]

I'm actually not a huge fan of the way money was spit this year just because at least in VGC's case, 333/333/333 would likely have had the same failure to pull Seniors/Juniors that 600 did already and then this slighting-Masters-to-avoid-mortgaging-the-future argument could have happened over something that would be more likely to actually have an impact(perhaps doing something really crazy like advertising). You won't have any prize money to donate to charity if there's no tournaments in a few years and your friends won't have any tournaments to play in regardless of whether or not they have the money to travel to them. The choice to focus on the future health of the enterprise isn't wrong.

The ostensible reason for this split is to "pull Seniors/Juniors," but if they really wanted to do that, there are other things they would have already done. As I mentioned in the other thread, "make your devoted customers feel slighted while searching for new devoted customers" is a flat-out stupid business strategy.

For starters, it has taken Pokemon 13 years and counting to figure out that it should do a better job of advertising organized play on booster packs, booster boxes, and game boxes.

---------- Post added 09/12/2012 at 10:14 PM ----------

Choosing to focus on building other parts of the program is not a slight.

By definition, choosing to build other parts of the program at the expense of the most devoted customers is slighting the most devoted customers.

 

[bullados]

One good thing coming out of this, and a correspondingly bad thing.

VGC finally has a Top Cut!!!

Too bad it's only a Top 8 maximum...

 

[HenryP]

Thanks for nipping this thread in the butt professor dav!

Ahahahahah. The saying is "nipping something in the bud", bud not butt, as in cutting a flowers bud so that it can't grow. Although your version is quite hilarious.

 

[Jaeger]

I can't change that. As mentioned in the other thread, the OP budget is fixed. It does not fluctuate based upon growth, attendance or sales. I'm tasked to make that work every year, and sometimes that means decisions that not everyone will like (sometimes, even me).

Thanks,
Prof_Dav

That just seems crazy to me (I know not your control) that if an area is experience growth that more support isn't given to that area. Expecting a customer base to grow while support stays the same seems like a huge challenge to me.

---------- Post added 09/13/2012 at 01:04 AM ----------

You shouldn't be surprised. Players get angry because they care. I would be very concerned about the game if people stopped getting angry when prize support is cut, because that would show that no-one cares anymore.

It's the same reason parents get angry at their kids when they do something wrong/stupid. The parents want their children to do better, and stop making bad decisions. Likewise, the players are asking the same from TPCi.

I think the player base is so loyal that this almost feels like a sense of...betrail might be too strong of a word. The anger is coming from a feeling of hurt from a player base who really loves this game and the people.

As for the people at P!P I'm not angry at them or feel any ill will as I think there great guys just trying to do a job within a budget. I'm honestly more upset with the situation and the limited resources that P!P seems to have for a growing game. I think many people have similar beliefs and are more angry at the situation than at the people. This anger is just misdirected at the only people that are here to blame which is P!P.

 

[Benzo]

To see that the VGC is even getting something worked into the TCPI system of things is a great start-off in expanding the Company. I do not think a company would expand into an area unless it saw growth and support, along with demand and participation from the community.

I only see things getting better balanced out in the future, the company has got to start out and see what works and what does not. The TCG didn't get to the point and place it is at now without having some foundation to start out with in order to build upon.

Time will tell, things could switch up. It is not like this whole merge happened over night, this looks as if more of the behind the scenes is just now surfussing, and TCPI is doing what it can to make the over-all events as fair as possible to the whole community.