Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!
- Thread starter Pikamaster
- Start date
First up, DP, go back and read my post. See the "keep it civil" part? yeah, let's go with that. There's more here than sour grapes. I could care less about the win or loss of any given faction here. And my two game ban (which I agree with for the record) certainly does not change a single iota of the issues here. This would be the same issue if your names were cabd and jpulice. I could care less which two players did this.
Then explain your PM to jpulice where you SPEICIFCALLY say he was in fact held in reserve.
Indeed we did. And do you know what the mod did? He refused, as is the correct response. As a player, you are in a biased situation to want a certain thing. It is the mod's job to not let that happen. Which is what SS7 did.
Then explain your PM to jpulice where you SPEICIFCALLY say he was in fact held in reserve.
Indeed we did. And do you know what the mod did? He refused, as is the correct response. As a player, you are in a biased situation to want a certain thing. It is the mod's job to not let that happen. Which is what SS7 did.
A [DEL]girl[/DEL] guy has his secrets. And yeah, i would like a reminder. Must be going senile in my old age.
It doesn't matter. You don't tell ONE faction mod-related information ahead of any other. Had you posted that on thread instead of telling one player, I agree, the point would be moot. But you did not. You only told one player out of 44 (or however many were alive not named JP at the time)
No, this was likely an innocent mistake but just letting it go was a second mistake.
I would like to know what university system has finals every other week, so that I may avoid it like the plague. The whole point of a werewolf time schedule is to stick to it as much as possible. Not to suit the fancy of one player, or even one faction.
So then, the rules only apply when people thank things you disagree with?
Hey. Guess what? This still give the Wolves the unfair advantage of pretty much knowing that they didn't have to waste a NK. I feel that it was unfair information for them to be given, knowing whether a player was going to be modkilled or not before they were modkilled.
Sandslash7
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
I will not tolerate argumentation. Sharing opinions and viewpoints is fine. But when it devolves into petulancy, veiled sarcasm and irritation that is not helpful.
---------- Post added 05/01/2013 at 11:10 PM ----------
I'm glad you brought this up.
I am definitely going to talk about this as well.
Pikamaster, what do you think about this in hindsight?
---------- Post added 05/01/2013 at 11:10 PM ----------
I'm glad you brought this up.
I am definitely going to talk about this as well. Pikamaster, what do you think about this in hindsight?
Just to show how much it killed it, there were 1950 posts in the first 6 days. There were about 250 in the remaining 5.
Now then, as a more important issue, let’s talk game setup theory.
Regarding game setups, 45 players with a 5 faction setup simply does not work.
The “golden ratio” is 7/2. This is based upon the game that ALL forum mafia and werewolf is derived from, A Russian party game.
7 vanilla town players
2 vanilla wolf players
Let’s scale that ratio to get close to the 45 player cap this game had.
7*2=14
2*2=4
So in an 18 player game we’d expect 4 wolves, with no power roles.
Moving on…
14*2=28
4*4=8
So in a 36 player game, we can expect 8 wolves.
7*5=35
2*5=10
Oh look, 45 players. What is the number we get? 10 wolves.
So for a fair 45 player game, the wolves get ten players to the town’s 35. But wait, don’t we need power roles? Yes. Yes we do. So remember, if you add more power to the town, the wolves need more players and powers as well to make up for it.
Having multiple “scumteams” of 6 players each was a major issue. Those teams in fight, when honestly, two of them combined still would have dwarfed the scum team size needed to counter-weight the town’s incredible amount of power roles.
Additionally, NOWEHERE, and I mean NOWHERE, was it explained how the Outlaw and Enforcer win condition worked. It is INCREDIBLY unfair to those players to essentially be forced to play blindly, having no clue how to win or lose the game they are in. (Technically the outlaws may have known, I’ve only seen the enforcer chat)
Regarding game setups, 45 players with a 5 faction setup simply does not work.
The “golden ratio” is 7/2. This is based upon the game that ALL forum mafia and werewolf is derived from, A Russian party game.
7 vanilla town players
2 vanilla wolf players
Let’s scale that ratio to get close to the 45 player cap this game had.
7*2=14
2*2=4
So in an 18 player game we’d expect 4 wolves, with no power roles.
Moving on…
14*2=28
4*4=8
So in a 36 player game, we can expect 8 wolves.
7*5=35
2*5=10
Oh look, 45 players. What is the number we get? 10 wolves.
So for a fair 45 player game, the wolves get ten players to the town’s 35. But wait, don’t we need power roles? Yes. Yes we do. So remember, if you add more power to the town, the wolves need more players and powers as well to make up for it.
Having multiple “scumteams” of 6 players each was a major issue. Those teams in fight, when honestly, two of them combined still would have dwarfed the scum team size needed to counter-weight the town’s incredible amount of power roles.
Additionally, NOWEHERE, and I mean NOWHERE, was it explained how the Outlaw and Enforcer win condition worked. It is INCREDIBLY unfair to those players to essentially be forced to play blindly, having no clue how to win or lose the game they are in. (Technically the outlaws may have known, I’ve only seen the enforcer chat)
jellyfisher
Member
Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Seriously cabd, you tried to do the exact same thing that you are saying that Pikamaster has done. The proof of this is below.
During last game, cabd made this post in the WW QT. The link for that QT is right here http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/vExEnXAp5BYs. The posts from it have only been bolded to make reading everything easier.
Cabd
10-06-2012
11:46 PM ET (US)
PokemonPlayer101 is getting replaced by my girlfriend (Innocent_Shine). We have to take her carefully, she's a MUCH better player than PP101 is. Of course, it's possible we can turn her against certain others (She hates PM a LOT), but I dunno.
I wonder, if we end up pushing the DP lynch, if Diaz might get counter-attacked by some more townies.
Anyways, Innocent's play style is more aggro than most. Expect her to be hot on the trail of anything she can sink her teeth into.
So okay, he is saying that IS is a good player, no problem there. This post also makes it clear that he was fully aware that IS was next in line to be replaced, and that the town had someone that needed to be replaced before the wolves did. Now for the next post.
JpulicePerson was signed in when posted
10-07-2012
11:46 AM ET (US)
Unless we kill her tonight!!!! Also, we should ask for Kezzup to be replaced, since he hasn't posted today. (unless he does)..... Maybe she can replace into our team. We take IS and they get scottistru. Well just a thought.
Ah, the irony. It was even jpulice that made this post. But anyway, Jpulice tried to do something that he accused Pikamaster of doing, and made the reason for why he quit the game. Now we go onto the next post.
Cabd
10-07-2012
02:20 PM ET (US)
Send SS7 a message requesting her.
And on top of all of that, SS7's list of replacements makes it clear that IS was next in line to go in for someone.
Kezzup had not asked for a replacement, and the townie that requested to be replaced did so during the game day. So whichever way you look at it, there was no doubt that IS was supposed to go in for the town, not the wolves.
So cabd, can you explain this? Can you explain why you (and Jpulice) tried to do the exact same thing that you are accusing Pikamaster of having done?
So I am not going to say that it was kind of DP to call you and JP names. However, that post was NOT made on Pokegym, and I fail to see why you are bringing it up with a matter that concerns Pokegym. Especially after you made the post below.
But putting all of that aside for the moment, the game was fun while it lasted. Good game everyone.
Already answered. It was biased as a player, because players are naturally aiming to win for their faction. However, the mod did the right thing and refused. This game, the mod did not refuse and there is the distinction.
I know darthpika and pikamaster are your brothers so you may find this upsetting you on a personal level, but that is the distinction.
Pikamaster
Active Member
DarthPika did not remind me about AK until there was a replacement for a wolf needed. If he remembered about AK the entire time and did not tell me, he "held him in reserve". The player did, not the mod. The rest of the PM said what the mod (I) did. And had AK not been the replacement, if he had been found first, Schizo would have been. Both players were found when two replacements were needed, it's just that the order of finding them was Schizo, and then AK.
How you specifically stated that you disliked myself and DP, that you wonder if DP/Jellyfisher and I are cheating, your stance on DP's attitude in the game. Point being, I disapprove of what DP said, but he's within his rights to say it.
Jpulice posted his role, did that not inform everyone enough that he was getting modkilled? The wolves were the first to get notified, and then Jpulice acted. The other factions would have been notified had this not been the case.
How do you suggest we fix the gamestate? It was decided that trying to repair it would do much more harm than good.
LEX and I decided it together, not to the fancy of one player or faction. We felt that it would benefit more players than DP if the day was extended.
One is a forum mod posting to enforce the site rules, another is not.
The town/wolves were not meant to know what their win condition was. Every non-town wins player was informed of how to win.
I owe all of you plenty of explanation, which I'll get to in the postgame thread.
SMP88 - Look at the wolf kills. We aimed for active people early/midgame, to kill day discussion. Prohawk sped it up considerably.
The roles were interesting, to say the least. I haven't played with most of them until now.
SMP88 - Look at the wolf kills. We aimed for active people early/midgame, to kill day discussion. Prohawk sped it up considerably.
The roles were interesting, to say the least. I haven't played with most of them until now.
There is no postgame thread. This IS the postgame thread.
DarthPika
New Member
Since you already admitted that you would have done it if you could have done it, I suggest you stop. I don't care what you or anyone else believes. I know what I said, I know what he said. I don't think anything biased happened with my knowledge. HOWEVER, what has been done has been done. Let us move on now.
Which is exactly what I intend to do, as I'm already talking about setup issues and modifications, save for responding to your brothers.
Pikamaster
Active Member
That will come for tomorrow, then, I need to get to sleep now.
Dave/SMP/SS7, the balance was that it lost the wolves one of their own and it stopped the kill for the next two nights. Essentially, it gave them +1 on the town. The conversation was killed because the remaining players failed to be more active in talking.
Also, EVERYONE, this is a civil discussion. Do NOT break the Pokegym rules. DP, I am looking at you. Every other person, too, but yeah, no more insulting Cabd.
Dave/SMP/SS7, the balance was that it lost the wolves one of their own and it stopped the kill for the next two nights. Essentially, it gave them +1 on the town. The conversation was killed because the remaining players failed to be more active in talking.
Also, EVERYONE, this is a civil discussion. Do NOT break the Pokegym rules. DP, I am looking at you. Every other person, too, but yeah, no more insulting Cabd.
I trust this guy more than you. According to that post, this is a place to discuss things like game mechanics, balance, etc. If you have a specific problem with the way the game was run, take it up to the hosts/forum mods via PM or a Quicktopic. Complaining about it here is doing favors for no one.
The issue with weighting the role like that is that if used at endgame, it endgames the town entirely out of nowhere. Imagine being two days from LYLO and suddenly, game is over? That's not right.
---------- Post added 05/01/2013 at 08:28 PM ----------
---------- Post added 05/01/2013 at 08:28 PM ----------
I have google talk open with said person right now, you know. He specifically directed me to post the game setup discussion here, as well as postgame talk.
Pikamaster
Active Member
Look at the wolf/player ratio. The wolves had a harder time, this was part of their balance.
DarthPika
New Member
I take no responsibility for what they say, your argument is with them. I would have greatly appreciated if you would have left it like that at the start instead of dragging me into it.
For all future games, I would like to make a suggestion:
If you have a problem with how the game is being modded, call out the mod. Don't blame players or call them out based on your assumptions. I think a lot of grief could have been avoided if this had been handled better.
For all future games, I would like to make a suggestion:
If you have a problem with how the game is being modded, call out the mod. Don't blame players or call them out based on your assumptions. I think a lot of grief could have been avoided if this had been handled better.