Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!
- Thread starter Pikamaster
- Start date
scorri likes none of this post, or vablakes response to it. scorri sees a post that is purely an attempt to get heat off of G_L by accusing people of being in a group. G_Landers ignored the fact that eclipse had been voting for him and simply says that two people might be in a group because they're voting him when there are better leads. However, he does not expand into those leads. Either he doesn't have leads and so is guessing that there are better leads (read: making stuff up to get attention off himself) or he has leads but is refusing to out them for some reason (read: hiding information from the town). Either way, scorri feels like this was just an attempt to be appearing as active and not actually contribute anything.
The fact that Vablakes then unvoted G_Landers annoys scorri. If vablakes was looking for activity, that barely proves that G_L will be active and makes me think that Vablakes had just tossed out a vote to have a vote. scorri is aware that Vablakes is likely town due to Levity's flip, but scorri just doesn't like that play.
Current Vote: HomeofMew
FoS: G_Landers, PokemonRocks777
scorri will be attempting to reread and get more reads out later tonight.
How do you know the trigger word was for the whole town? you don't, I don"t find this lead that shakey in my opinion and may possibly be worth looking into a bit more, I don't know about you but it just looks scummy to me the whole situation, and how absol got killed, what if he selected absol and he he baited him into saying the word? Did you ever even consider this as a possibility? Just my opinion and I could be way off base here.
Scorri: It was just something to possibly keep an eye on and I will be making a better attempt to be more active, I feel as the kirby king thing could go somewhere. I didn't talk about eclipses vote on me because he unvoted me and I didn't feelas if it was worth addressing.
Hmm... lets see here. G-Landers lurks, when called out with a couple of votes makes a weak OMGUS post to attack both Vablakes and myself. [DEL]Hey Landers, any reason why you didn't want to call out Eclipse for having voted you as well?[/DEL] Does the fact that Eclipse voted for you, then unvoted mean he wasn't "taking the easy way out"? If there are so many better targets, why haven't you gone after any of them, or mentioned them for that matter?
I like my vote right where it is, can't let G-Landers slip back into oblivion especially with his most recent posts.
P-EDIT: Scorri, you and I must think alike. I shouldn't type so much as to avoid being ninja'ed, but double posting is forbidden :frown:
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Maybe you haven't been reading my posts... I have been hunting the inactives/lurkers practically this whole game, with the exception of Day 1. So no, it really isn't unlike me. Allow me to provide you with my reasoning. I have a few questions for you, of which I would like answers/responses.
First question, is G_Landers inactive or lurking?
Second question, consider the following scenario:
The game has come down to LYLO, if you lynch the wrong person you lose. Its you, an inactive-lurker who has made exactly one-two content-less posts - enough to not get mod-killed, and the remaining scum who has played amazingly and has actively posted pro-town the whole game. How do you know who to lynch? What are the odds that you let the lurker-inactive live? I am willing to bet you lynch him and lose.
So the real issue is, how do you tell a lurker-inactive scum from a lurker-inactive town? You can't.
You're absolutely right that inactive doesn't equate to finding wolves. You can call it the "easy" way out, however if I don't do it, who will? I would prefer to not have to clean out the list of players that won't allow us to read them, but someone has to. I won't let players survive who are going to end up losing the game for us as we get down to our final days. Believe me, the wolves will keep these people who aren't posting around for this exact reason, they look scummy for not scum-hunting/posting/providing content.
Can you explain what you mean by "the game will sort itself out how it wants to"? I don't understand what the game wants... does he want us to win, or the wolves, or some other faction?
What I actually find really ironic is your statement that being on a scum team encourages playing when the first game I played with you, you were lurking and I voted you based on that fact, and you turned out to be a wolf...
I like my vote right where it is, can't let G-Landers slip back into oblivion especially with his most recent posts.
P-EDIT: Scorri, you and I must think alike. I shouldn't type so much as to avoid being ninja'ed, but double posting is forbidden :frown:
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Maybe you haven't been reading my posts... I have been hunting the inactives/lurkers practically this whole game, with the exception of Day 1. So no, it really isn't unlike me. Allow me to provide you with my reasoning. I have a few questions for you, of which I would like answers/responses.
First question, is G_Landers inactive or lurking?
Second question, consider the following scenario:
The game has come down to LYLO, if you lynch the wrong person you lose. Its you, an inactive-lurker who has made exactly one-two content-less posts - enough to not get mod-killed, and the remaining scum who has played amazingly and has actively posted pro-town the whole game. How do you know who to lynch? What are the odds that you let the lurker-inactive live? I am willing to bet you lynch him and lose.
So the real issue is, how do you tell a lurker-inactive scum from a lurker-inactive town? You can't.
You're absolutely right that inactive doesn't equate to finding wolves. You can call it the "easy" way out, however if I don't do it, who will? I would prefer to not have to clean out the list of players that won't allow us to read them, but someone has to. I won't let players survive who are going to end up losing the game for us as we get down to our final days. Believe me, the wolves will keep these people who aren't posting around for this exact reason, they look scummy for not scum-hunting/posting/providing content.
Can you explain what you mean by "the game will sort itself out how it wants to"? I don't understand what the game wants... does he want us to win, or the wolves, or some other faction?
What I actually find really ironic is your statement that being on a scum team encourages playing when the first game I played with you, you were lurking and I voted you based on that fact, and you turned out to be a wolf...
Hmm... lets see here. G-Landers lurks, when called out with a couple of votes makes a weak OMGUS post to attack both Vablakes and myself. [DEL]Hey Landers, any reason why you didn't want to call out Eclipse for having voted you as well?[/DEL] Does the fact that Eclipse voted for you, then unvoted mean he wasn't "taking the easy way out"? If there are so many better targets, why haven't you gone after any of them, or mentioned them for that matter?
I like my vote right where it is, can't let G-Landers slip back into oblivion especially with his most recent posts.
P-EDIT: Scorri, you and I must think alike. I shouldn't type so much as to avoid being ninja'ed, but double posting is forbidden :frown:
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Maybe you haven't been reading my posts... I have been hunting the inactives/lurkers practically this whole game, with the exception of Day 1. So no, it really isn't unlike me. Allow me to provide you with my reasoning. I have a few questions for you, of which I would like answers/responses.
First question, is G_Landers inactive or lurking?
Second question, consider the following scenario:
The game has come down to LYLO, if you lynch the wrong person you lose. Its you, an inactive-lurker who has made exactly one-two content-less posts - enough to not get mod-killed, and the remaining scum who has played amazingly and has actively posted pro-town the whole game. How do you know who to lynch? What are the odds that you let the lurker-inactive live? I am willing to bet you lynch him and lose.
So the real issue is, how do you tell a lurker-inactive scum from a lurker-inactive town? You can't.
You're absolutely right that inactive doesn't equate to finding wolves. You can call it the "easy" way out, however if I don't do it, who will? I would prefer to not have to clean out the list of players that won't allow us to read them, but someone has to. I won't let players survive who are going to end up losing the game for us as we get down to our final days. Believe me, the wolves will keep these people who aren't posting around for this exact reason, they look scummy for not scum-hunting/posting/providing content.
Can you explain what you mean by "the game will sort itself out how it wants to"? I don't understand what the game wants... does he want us to win, or the wolves, or some other faction?
What I actually find really ironic is your statement that being on a scum team encourages playing when the first game I played with you, you were lurking and I voted you based on that fact, and you turned out to be a wolf...
I responded the next day to your votes if i was really lurking as you seem to think I wouldve posted yesterday, and I would hardly call it an attack, I was simply putting out the possibility, I just found it odd you both posted calling me out with an half hour of each other and yeah I believe he wasn't because he realized he'd voted the wrong person entirely and I personally believe kirbyking is a good lead if you don't agree so be it and I already in fact did mention Kirbyking
I claimed that I got no result, which I assumed to be role block. Now I Know it was Wayne's hider role.
Right, so scorri forgot to talk more about G_Landers!
-scorri sees that once again G_Landers claims they will be more active but then gives not a lot. scorri really doesn't think the kill word idea is worth discussing until we see more proof that it might exist. scorri thinks that doing so will just distract town from actual scum hunting and make town paranoid.
-scorri would like to point out that a) a person can "lurk" and still not respond right away. Perhaps G_L just wasn't around right then. The fact that G_L had been very unresponsive until G_L had votes on him is why it was called lurking. It is an attack in someways because even bringing it up makes it so that other people who vote G_L can be accused of buddying. scorri would also like to point out that eclipse unvoted you because she was trying to start something, not because she didn't find you scummy anymore. she just thought there were enough votes on an inactive as it was.
Overall, scorri really doesn't like the way that G_L is acting right now. It seems to be a lot of promises of activity and hints at opinions that are copying others and also backed with claiming they're gut feelings so they might be wrong which helps G_L defend himself later if he ends up being wrong because he can just claim that he wasn't sure and it wasn't his fault, etc. scorri wants to hear other people's thoughts on HomeofMew before anything else, but scorri would seriously consider changing her vote to G_L if it doesn't look like a HoM lynch is going to happen.
-scorri sees that once again G_Landers claims they will be more active but then gives not a lot. scorri really doesn't think the kill word idea is worth discussing until we see more proof that it might exist. scorri thinks that doing so will just distract town from actual scum hunting and make town paranoid.
-scorri would like to point out that a) a person can "lurk" and still not respond right away. Perhaps G_L just wasn't around right then. The fact that G_L had been very unresponsive until G_L had votes on him is why it was called lurking. It is an attack in someways because even bringing it up makes it so that other people who vote G_L can be accused of buddying. scorri would also like to point out that eclipse unvoted you because she was trying to start something, not because she didn't find you scummy anymore. she just thought there were enough votes on an inactive as it was.
Overall, scorri really doesn't like the way that G_L is acting right now. It seems to be a lot of promises of activity and hints at opinions that are copying others and also backed with claiming they're gut feelings so they might be wrong which helps G_L defend himself later if he ends up being wrong because he can just claim that he wasn't sure and it wasn't his fault, etc. scorri wants to hear other people's thoughts on HomeofMew before anything else, but scorri would seriously consider changing her vote to G_L if it doesn't look like a HoM lynch is going to happen.
pokemonplayer101
New Member
Alright, let's take a look at what we have here.
Jason pops in for the lynch, Jason gets NK'd. Hm. Interesting.
Glaceon seems to be an Insane Seer. Either that, or a liar.
@Homeofmew: I'm tired of your inactivity. Some people rarely post, but when they do post, it's a great, long, well thought out post that explains the game state. Your posts, so far, have been :nonono: .
VOTE: Homeofmew
Change that. Now.
Jason pops in for the lynch, Jason gets NK'd. Hm. Interesting.
Glaceon seems to be an Insane Seer. Either that, or a liar.
@Homeofmew: I'm tired of your inactivity. Some people rarely post, but when they do post, it's a great, long, well thought out post that explains the game state. Your posts, so far, have been :nonono: .
VOTE: Homeofmew
Change that. Now.
DragonClyne725
New Member
The sword role would make sense for the death of AT. Here's the role:
Whoever Desufnoc gave the sword to could have PM'd the Mod during the Day to use it against AT.Desufnoc's Role[B said:
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What is your opinion on G landers?Pokemonplayer101 said:
pokemonfreak5
New Member
Hmm... lets see here. G-Landers lurks, when called out with a couple of votes makes a weak OMGUS post to attack both Vablakes and myself. [DEL]Hey Landers, any reason why you didn't want to call out Eclipse for having voted you as well?[/DEL] Does the fact that Eclipse voted for you, then unvoted mean he wasn't "taking the easy way out"? If there are so many better targets, why haven't you gone after any of them, or mentioned them for that matter?
I like my vote right where it is, can't let G-Landers slip back into oblivion especially with his most recent posts.
P-EDIT: Scorri, you and I must think alike. I shouldn't type so much as to avoid being ninja'ed, but double posting is forbidden :frown:
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Maybe you haven't been reading my posts... I have been hunting the inactives/lurkers practically this whole game, with the exception of Day 1. So no, it really isn't unlike me. Allow me to provide you with my reasoning. I have a few questions for you, of which I would like answers/responses.
I will admit I didn't actively go back and check every one of your old posts. Just from what I had on memory, you had seemed to apply valid reasoning and logic in the past. This seemed like a step in the other direction.
First question, is G_Landers inactive or lurking?
Before his post I would have said inactive. Now a step closer to lurking. Lurking is more of a tell in the late game, after an extended streak of staying silent and only posting when it's needed not to draw suspicion. Sometimes all an inactive needs is to see in the thread that people think they are inactive (a vote not necessary) before they post again. From there, they either stay active, drop of the radar again, or continue to lurk
Second question, consider the following scenario:
The game has come down to LYLO, if you lynch the wrong person you lose. Its you, an inactive-lurker who has made exactly one-two content-less posts - enough to not get mod-killed, and the remaining scum who has played amazingly and has actively posted pro-town the whole game. How do you know who to lynch? What are the odds that you let the lurker-inactive live? I am willing to bet you lynch him and lose.
Yes, when you put it like that in black and white I probably would. But what you are proposing is a COMPLETELY different situation, and one that is unlikely to happen in the first place. For the game to be in LYLO, a fair number of phases must have passed. At least on the 'gym, if an inactive player is still alive (hasn't been modkilled or replaced), they must have posted more than "one-two content-less posts". That's some serious lurking there. The town as a whole would have called them out multiple times, informing them that their actions are being seen as suspicious, and to act accordingly. Regardless, this would provide more information to work with in their supposedly content-less post (I dislike that term, all posts have content). That level of lurking is an inherit scum-tell, and it would be considered. But, particularly in LYLO, no one would ever make a blind lynch based on principle. All evidence would have to be considered.
So the real issue is, how do you tell a lurker-inactive scum from a lurker-inactive town? You can't.
Yes you can. Short of flipping a wolf rolecard (and that will get you killed anyway), no single scum-tell can be made with 100% surety. It's the process of combining a number of tells and examining everything provided to execute an informed decision that is used to scum from town, inactive, lurking or otherwise.
Regardless, lurking should not be used as a tell unless it has been employed for an extended period of time. No town player would actively choose to play like this. If they do, they are working against their faction and win-con in a number of ways, and playing like scum. If the town pickup on this and lynch because of it, no one would blame them.
You're absolutely right that inactive doesn't equate to finding wolves. You can call it the "easy" way out, however if I don't do it, who will? I would prefer to not have to clean out the list of players that won't allow us to read them, but someone has to. I won't let players survive who are going to end up losing the game for us as we get down to our final days. Believe me, the wolves will keep these people who aren't posting around for this exact reason, they look scummy for not scum-hunting/posting/providing content.
Yes, scum factions will likely not kill inactive townsfolk as they appear scummy, just as they would not kill anyone that may draw attention away from themselves. However, inactives only appear scummy if we make a big to-do (like you are), about lynching inactives. Also, I think you'll find this would occur anyway, as scum are more likely to take out those they see as threats (vets or otherwise), which will naturally act as a remover of key posters.
As to who would do it otherwise. That basically comes down to the mods and their decisions for how to handle inactives (which is usually discussed pregame). As we've seen, and it is unfortunate to an extent, but the mod for this game seems to have a strict modkill procedure. If true inactives are going to be killed anyway, why should we waste our informed lynch on them? If the game is sadly reduced to a state of an inactivity plague (Like the anon A game), the mod should try and find a solution to remedy this. It is no single players responsibility to "clear out the inactives". Over time they will either be modkilled, replaced, become inactive to avoid modkill or any other reason, or else die to what is seeming to be lots of potential killing roles in this game. You don't need to worry about these player's being alive during the final stages of the game, costing us a victory, because that situation won't happen.
Can you explain what you mean by "the game will sort itself out how it wants to"? I don't understand what the game wants... does he want us to win, or the wolves, or some other faction?
Basically answered above. The game wants to be in a stable state, and between the predetermined and hopefully balanced roles, combined with moderating procedures, this will occur over time.
What I actually find really ironic is your statement that being on a scum team encourages playing when the first game I played with you, you were lurking and I voted you based on that fact, and you turned out to be a wolf...
Yep. I was scum. I lurked. I wasn't inactive but lurked. Aint that something. I had my own reasons for that. All this does is affirm my statement that you can't make blanket claims "lynch the inactives", but instead must take everything on a case by case basis. (Also, if inactivity was the only case being used against me in that game, the town was clearly missing some other obvious tells.)
Replies in bold. I'm holding my vote. I still believe that you are opting for an easy lynch, and are now pushing it hard on everyone else, while distracting the town from other discussion.
Glaceon doesn't seem to be insane at all. Your Face's role card specifically said that he was the insane half. Not sure why there would be 2 insane halves
Read the sword text again. It says that they must openly kill another player. PMing the mod doesn't seem like it would be openly killing a player.
Pikamaster: Does Desufnoc's sword role require a player to post in the thread that they use it or can they PM you to use it?
Pikamaster
Active Member
I cannot give specifics about other roles or aspects of the effects of those roles.
Well PF5, it appears you have your strategic tactics and I have mine. It's clear I can't convince you that my play is smarter, so you might just have to keep your vote in play, but you should understand that I am voting now for someone who lurked, and has yet to provide any decent content.
I would like to know your thoughts on Pokemonplayer101, Scorri, and SS7.
Lastly, just a few comments on your commentary.
From what I understand, Pikamaster is allowing people to avoid mod-kill if they post at least once during the game-day. He has even allowed players to avoid mod-kill if they just PM him without posting even. So... I disagree, if players post at least once, I believe Pikamaster will allow them to live. I do agree, however that people shouldn't let them live playing that way and especially when we get to the late game, they will be under much more scrutiny.
Here is where my ideal play and your ideal play differ. I want them gone at the beginning of the game instead of having to waste lynches to kill them toward the end. You seem to be just the opposite. I believe this stems from our differing beliefs that I feel more wolves would be found in the lurking category, whereas you believe more wolves would be found in the active category. I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
See, I feel like this completely applies to G_Landers, don't you? It is Day 5... how long is an extended period of time to you?
And Lastly, just food for thought...
What exactly do you get out of the following posts?
These are a few gems from our resident-lurkers. By content-less, I didn't mean they had absolutely zero content, I just mean they are so ambiguous that they don't provide nearly enough to work with. Their posts do little to help us get a handle on who they really are.
I would like to know your thoughts on Pokemonplayer101, Scorri, and SS7.
Lastly, just a few comments on your commentary.
From what I understand, Pikamaster is allowing people to avoid mod-kill if they post at least once during the game-day. He has even allowed players to avoid mod-kill if they just PM him without posting even. So... I disagree, if players post at least once, I believe Pikamaster will allow them to live. I do agree, however that people shouldn't let them live playing that way and especially when we get to the late game, they will be under much more scrutiny.
Here is where my ideal play and your ideal play differ. I want them gone at the beginning of the game instead of having to waste lynches to kill them toward the end. You seem to be just the opposite. I believe this stems from our differing beliefs that I feel more wolves would be found in the lurking category, whereas you believe more wolves would be found in the active category. I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
See, I feel like this completely applies to G_Landers, don't you? It is Day 5... how long is an extended period of time to you?
And Lastly, just food for thought...
What exactly do you get out of the following posts?
Vote: JewlQuest Reason Wolf
These are a few gems from our resident-lurkers. By content-less, I didn't mean they had absolutely zero content, I just mean they are so ambiguous that they don't provide nearly enough to work with. Their posts do little to help us get a handle on who they really are.
Prohawk, I'm surprised by your insistence you are placing on inactives. Inactive are dropping like flies and none have been wolves (due to mod kills). So you really think wolves are lurking their way to victory? Wolves NEED kills so they drive / influence lynches in their favor. Why not target actives? The optimal wolf strategy is to blend into town. Activity is mistaken for pro town all the time. Activity is null.
Eclipse, why is scorri scum? Scorri's post are very in the moment. If scorri is scum, I would be very surprised. You on the other hand are very controlled and deliberate.
Vote: Eclipse.
-You are posting enough to blend and I get a gut vibe you are not town. This is totally gut but I'm going with it.
I will do my best to work a VCA. It will take a bit of time but I will do this today. Hopefully I will do this tomorrow morning.
Thunderjolt, your reads on the following players:
eclipse,
darthpika,
SS7,
homeofmew,
DC725
Eclipse, why is scorri scum? Scorri's post are very in the moment. If scorri is scum, I would be very surprised. You on the other hand are very controlled and deliberate.
Vote: Eclipse.
-You are posting enough to blend and I get a gut vibe you are not town. This is totally gut but I'm going with it.
I will do my best to work a VCA. It will take a bit of time but I will do this today. Hopefully I will do this tomorrow morning.
Thunderjolt, your reads on the following players:
eclipse,
darthpika,
SS7,
homeofmew,
DC725
Sandslash7
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
1) I agree. Being on a scum faction is logically an incentive to play. But lurking (as you know from previous games) is definitely a wolf tactic, and is hard to distinguish from inactivity.
2) So far the game has "sorted itself out" already. And we've lost 10 players to modkills. This has not been helpful to the town at all. What is to say that more "waiting" on inactives would help the town now?
Homeofmew ~ Please refer to Pika's post (quoted below)
You cannot use "hey I'm busy just sub me out" as a defense against pressure. Your actions have been scummy, and I'm not going to let up just because you are busy. You have an obligation to keep playing until a sub can be found, if one can be found. Response?
I'm disappointed with the activity level right now. If you all sit back and hope for the best, the scum will take control of the game. Activity is required for a town victory. So get active, post, and make and follow up on reads. I need to follow this advice as well, though its been hard due to being at school from 8am-8pm the past few days.
Not everybody is lurking. Some people have other reasons they have little time to post.
JP - What are your reads on?
Benson
Scorri
Shinori
Thunderjolt
Prohawk - What do you suppose we do about Hom? She has never seemed to respond to pressure.
yeah I am really sorry guys.
School stuff has been horrible.
That and I recently broke my laptop.
I know this is a bad time to drop being under pressure and all
but I would like to request a replacement
Am I the only one who feels like I read this? HoM is gone. She won't be responding to anything. Let her be mod-killed.
JP, your question has been answered in my post explaining my take on minimalist-posters. What I would really like from you is your take on G_Landers. Tell me why he is town, and why I shouldn't be voting for him.