what deck to invest in?

[Ninja]

I honestly feel like ya'll are under appreciating Yanmega in the next format. I feel that it will totally be good. The amount of disruption capable with judge, and them not running Uxie will be amazing.



I also feel that Donpah and Cinnicino will be good. Kind of hard to get not play something that gets set up T2, and hits for 120 for a DCE.

I'm definitely going to try it. Next format will be quite interesting xD

If it is like this you have Cinnicino which is weak to Donphan, and Yanmega which is resistant to it.

Cinnicino 1 shots Yanmega, and 2 shots Donphan.

Zekrom 1 shots everything but Donphan. And guess what One shots Zekrom. Thats right, donphan. So Donphan will be good xD

Unless Kingdra can do good being a stage 2 and all :/

 

[sToRm07]

I honestly feel like ya'll are under appreciating Yanmega in the next format. I feel that it will totally be good. The amount of disruption capable with judge, and them not running Uxie will be amazing.



I also feel that Donpah and Cinnicino will be good. Kind of hard to get not play something that gets set up T2, and hits for 120 for a DCE.

I'm definitely going to try it. Next format will be quite interesting xD

If it is like this you have Cinnicino which is weak to Donphan, and Yanmega which is resistant to it.

Cinnicino 1 shots Yanmega, and 2 shots Donphan.

Zekrom 1 shots everything but Donphan. And guess what One shots Zekrom. Thats right, donphan. So Donphan will be good xD

Unless Kingdra can do good being a stage 2 and all :/

I agree with your statement concerning Yanmega being under-appreciated next format. People really do not realize the ease in satisfying the Insight pokebody, and also do not realize its ability to snipe for 40 anywhere - a much less common ability next format. Things will only get better for it once Max potion hits the scene. But oh well, let people hate on Yanmega until it owns them next format :thumb:

I cannot really say that Cinicinno 1-hit KO's yanmega though. Without pluspwer, it is frankly not possible - do the wave maxes out at 100 - 20X each pokemon on your bench.

I think Jumpluff outguns him in almost every aspect - more damage (max 120), less attack cost (1G), sunflora/grass support, free retreat, decent second attack, etc.

It is nice that Cinicinno is, in fact, a stage one though.

 

[TheKing]

Cincinno is a stage 1

 

[sToRm07]

Cincinno is a stage 1

yup. Fixed it right after i posted it and realized my stupidity. :>

thanks.

 

[waynegg]

i am thinking about getting into pokemon and i need advice as to what kind of deck to invest in.

That, sir, is definitely the question of the moment! We'll let you know as soon as there is a clear cut answer! We currently don't even know for sure what our format will be week after next...

If the format stays Md-on just invest in this to carry you through the year and pick up HGSS on for next year:

4 Sableye
4 Unown
4 Unown R
4 Uxie
2 Crobat G
2 Unown Q

4 Department Store Girl
4 Expert Belt
4 Junk Arm
4 Poke Blower+
4 Poke Turn
4 Pokemon Collector
4 Pokemon Communication
4 Pokemon Rescue
3 Buck's Training
1 Luxury Ball

4 Special Dark Energy

And you'll almost never have to play more than one turn to win...

 

[Shen]

^ You should not invest in that.

I honestly say go with Charizard.

Charizard will probably fill a niche early in the format for being one of the few remaining decks with consistent draw power. I'd predict many people will be playing it just to cope with the new format. It doesn't suffer from 2X Weakness, either. It has remained somewhat competitive all of this season but has failed to win anything really big. It's not that expensive to build and the cards are probably playable in other decks. It's also a good choice because the majority of the deck probably will not change from this format to the next. It is worth mentioning that the deck will suffer somewhat from the new Rare Candy ruling.

There's a lot of stuff that might be good next format but it's hard to say what will be played. There are so many things to list through that are playable. Here's a brief analysis, and -- firstly -- it's important to note that Zekrom is predicted to see play.

Donphan covers Zekrom, and it needs very little support so it can be played with so many things but it's too early to say exactly how it'll be built. It could be a good play but it's walled by Charizard, Jumpluff, and Yanmega and Kingdra has weakness on it. It's strategy is so inflexible that it'll almost always lose those match-ups as well.

Then there's the other decks. As said, Kingdra covers Donphan but it suffers from weakness to Zekrom. Yanmega also covers Donphan, but it too suffers lightning weakness. Jumpluff is playable because (like Charizard) it will not change very much with the next format. However, Charizard covers Jumpluff. About the only thing that can cover Charizard itself is Kingdra, but the effect of its attack makes it severely weakened. Other cards like Scizor and Steelix will see play, but they too fall the Charizard.

So you see, it's very hard to tell what will be played. All of those are viable choices. Your best bet is to pick the deck that suffers the least, which in this case I predict will be Charizard. But that's just my opinion

---------- Post added 04/10/2011 at 07:31 AM ----------

Why the hell does anyone talk about yanmega? I dont get it... I wouldnt play yanmega if all his attacks were free no matter what.

I would not expect straight Yanmega, it's splashable in anything. You may see it in anything that needs fighting resistance or that needs to cover a grass weakness (Is there anything? Gatr maybe?). I guess it's also usable if you're commonly resisted and you just want the extra coverage. Outside of matching their hand, it literally needs no support.

But a deck with the purpose of attacking with Yanmega full time, I agree... I don't get why it comes up in discussion so much.

 

[waynegg]

^ You should not invest in that.

And why, pray tell, should he not invest in that? You tell him not to but you know the rule changes that are coming and you know what that deck will do with those changes.

With the Sableye start you guarantee owning the first turn. Then you just donk whatever your opponent throws out to start with. Please tear the deck down... if you can; don't just say 'don't invest in that'.

 

[sToRm07]

And why, pray tell, should he not invest in that? You tell him not to but you know the rule changes that are coming and you know what that deck will do with those changes.

With the Sableye start you guarantee owning the first turn. Then you just donk whatever your opponent throws out to start with. Please tear the deck down... if you can; don't just say 'don't invest in that'.

I agree, generalized shoot-downs like that do noone favors here.

I would say that for this format, after the rule changes on the 25th, this would be a good deck to invest in. But I'm pretty sure the OP said that he wanted a deck that will still be existent after rotation too so...

---------- Post added 04/10/2011 at 01:36 PM ----------

^ You should not invest in that.

I honestly say go with Charizard.

Charizard will probably fill a niche early in the format for being one of the few remaining decks with consistent draw power. I'd predict many people will be playing it just to cope with the new format. It doesn't suffer from 2X Weakness, either. It has remained somewhat competitive all of this season but has failed to win anything really big. It's not that expensive to build and the cards are probably playable in other decks. It's also a good choice because the majority of the deck probably will not change from this format to the next. It is worth mentioning that the deck will suffer somewhat from the new Rare Candy ruling.

There's a lot of stuff that might be good next format but it's hard to say what will be played. There are so many things to list through that are playable. Here's a brief analysis, and -- firstly -- it's important to note that Zekrom is predicted to see play.

Donphan covers Zekrom, and it needs very little support so it can be played with so many things but it's too early to say exactly how it'll be built. It could be a good play but it's walled by Charizard, Jumpluff, and Yanmega and Kingdra has weakness on it. It's strategy is so inflexible that it'll almost always lose those match-ups as well.

Then there's the other decks. As said, Kingdra covers Donphan but it suffers from weakness to Zekrom. Yanmega also covers Donphan, but it too suffers lightning weakness. Jumpluff is playable because (like Charizard) it will not change very much with the next format. However, Charizard covers Jumpluff. About the only thing that can cover Charizard itself is Kingdra, but the effect of its attack makes it severely weakened. Other cards like Scizor and Steelix will see play, but they too fall the Charizard.

So you see, it's very hard to tell what will be played. All of those are viable choices. Your best bet is to pick the deck that suffers the least, which in this case I predict will be Charizard. But that's just my opinion

I agree that Charizard will be nice, although it is in Platinum Arceus, which very well might be getting rotated out. Nice in the next metagame, IF it will be in next metagame.

 

[Scipio]

You know, with all the rotation talk, wouldn't it be smarter to await the rotation briefly? Come June/July, you'll know, and a much sounder advice can be given.

 

[DoomScizor]

Don't invest in Sableyedonk, It's not fun, it doesn't require skill, your just abusing the fact that you can use trainers first turn to get a T1 on your opponent. Besides, it's only going to be viable for Battle Roads, Nationals, and Worlds, and if you don't know, Battle roads are almost worthless and the other 2 events are Invite only, and then we get a rotation, and over 80 percent of the cards in that deck are going to become useless. Honestly, go to Bebe's search, print out some decks and have fun. It's a free way to play and a lot of leagues allow proxies. If your having fun with the deck you made, go a head and buy the cards for it. That's really all the game is about. I'll play bad decks all day, as long as I'm having a good time.

 

[Nintendan]

.....Times two weakness to Zekrom/Thunderous....maybe that's why people shouldn't use MegaJudge....just saying.

Go for Donphan w/ techs or Cinnicino w/ techs. Those two are going to be amazing decks in the format.

Ahem... MegaJUDGE...

Edit: Also Magnezone Prime is a good choice.

 

[Shen]

And why, pray tell, should he not invest in that? You tell him not to but you know the rule changes that are coming and you know what that deck will do with those changes.

With the Sableye start you guarantee owning the first turn. Then you just donk whatever your opponent throws out to start with. Please tear the deck down... if you can; don't just say 'don't invest in that'.

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=144756

Read that thread, including the OP and my posts.

The fact is Sableye can win a few games, and it can definitely ruin someone's chances at a tournament, but it simply cannot win consistently. It has absolutely no game past turn one, and simply loses if it misses the donk. If you fail to start with Sableye, fail to get the donk (because they opened with enough basics or something), or if they start with Sableye and win the coin flip, Sableye will lose. It is not competitive. Secondly, this deck will not be usable post rotation, which is what he is asking for. Finally, I very much doubt he will want to play this if he has to travel over an hour and a half to a tournament, because each game (win or lose) is determined after the first turn with Sableye.

 

[waynegg]

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=144756

Read that thread, including the OP and my posts.

The fact is Sableye can win a few games, and it can definitely ruin someone's chances at a tournament, but it simply cannot win consistently. It has absolutely no game past turn one, and simply loses if it misses the donk. If you fail to start with Sableye, fail to get the donk (because they opened with enough basics or something), or if they start with Sableye and win the coin flip, Sableye will lose. It is not competitive. Secondly, this deck will not be usable post rotation, which is what he is asking for. Finally, I very much doubt he will want to play this if he has to travel over an hour and a half to a tournament, because each game (win or lose) is determined after the first turn with Sableye.

But that's when you switch to the Uxie Donk Strategy and keep piling it on...

I realize that's what he's asking for, but for now while we don't have a clear cut definition of our format in like 2 weeks this will allow him to win without spending too much $$$ while he waits like the rest of us to see what happens when BW is released.

 

[Shinigami]

But that's when you switch to the Uxie Donk Strategy and keep piling it on...

I realize that's what he's asking for, but for now while we don't have a clear cut definition of our format in like 2 weeks this will allow him to win without spending too much $$$ while he waits like the rest of us to see what happens when BW is released.

Exactly, we don't have a clear-cut definition on what the format is. So why invest in something with a HIGHER chance of being rotated than in something that will last well into next season? That makes no sense. And there are plenty of decks that win without having to spend a lot of money that have a lot more staying power than Sableye. Vilelock comes to mind, as does Magnezone.

And your first post gave the second-worst rotation prediction I've seen. MD-on? That's like the guy who swears up and down it's going to be an SF-on format...

 

[waynegg]

So why invest in something with a HIGHER chance of being rotated than in something that will last well into next season?

So you can play now, for relatively little and win some, maybe earn some packs and minor Trophy cards (which can then be traded for higher end cards or sold). The deck would pay for itself and then some and it won't hurt so bad once it all rotates out. That's why.

And your first post gave the second-worst rotation prediction I've seen. MD-on? That's like the guy who swears up and down it's going to be an SF-on format...

Umm... I didn't make a rotation prediction. I said if it stays MD-on (as in for the rest of this tournament year...duh); if I were to make a guess at what our next rotation would be, it would be HGSS-on. It just remains to be seen if that rotation will happen in the next few weeks or after World Championships.

 

[Shen]

But that's when you switch to the Uxie Donk Strategy and keep piling it on...

I realize that's what he's asking for, but for now while we don't have a clear cut definition of our format in like 2 weeks this will allow him to win without spending too much $$$ while he waits like the rest of us to see what happens when BW is released.

Uxie donk gets no advantage with the new rules. If anything it is at a disadvantage.

Here's an analysis of mine from another post:

It seems that everyone is really blowing the new rule changes way out of proportion. Firstly, the new rules really hurt Uxie donk ... Remember the rewording on PlusPower: It gets discarded as soon as you use it. It does not go back to the deck or back to your hand. Uxie donk will no longer have an end game. If you do not win before your first Psychic Restore, you will be capping out at 40 damage (or 50 if you run Shuppet). Today we don't see that as much because Uxie donk can still be a monster if it doesn't get the donk. It uses a single energy attack to do around 80 damage every turn past the first trainer turn, has a likely chance of ruining your set up, and makes you play from around 3 prizes down. It has somewhat of an endgame, although weaker than most decks. It cannot do that after the B/W rule changes.

Furthermore, no one should be worrying about Uxie donk anyways. So what if you can play Trainers first turn? It has exactly the same odds of winning as before, there is almost no significance in being able to play trainers first turn (for Uxie donk). Think about it. With our current rules, Uxie donk needs to be able to go 2nd in order to play trainers. Thus, there is a 50% chance of going second and performing the donk. Likewise, it needs to go 1st with the B/W rules. This is also a 50% chance. If Uxie donk goes second with the B/W rules, then the opposing players will have access to Trainers/Supporters/etc when they go first, significantly lowering the chances of being donked. It's a 50/50 chance for Uxie no matter which rule set it is using.

Still there's no way he will lose Typhlosion and Ninetales, even if Charizard is rotated (Which I highly doubt, AR has gotten hardly enough play compared to other sets). Those two will definitely see play in other decks.

 

[waynegg]

Uxie donk gets no advantage with the new rules. If anything it is at a disadvantage.

Here's an analysis of mine from another post:



Still there's no way he will lose Typhlosion and Ninetales, even if Charizard is rotated (Which I highly doubt, AR has gotten hardly enough play compared to other sets). Those two will definitely see play in other decks.

You're right, he won't lose those cards (well maybe Charizard) but they aren't overly competitive right now. And if there isn't an immediate rotation with BW release those 50 HP Charmanders, Vulpix, and Cyndaquils (even if 3 are played during set up) don't stand a chance through the first turn when facing off with the deck I suggested. And one thing is certain in that case- The deck I suggested will be out there in one form or another.

I just don't want him to get frustrated and quit because of a lousy format. What I suggested gives him a fighting chance regardless of skill level, won't break the bank in obtaining, and will likely pay for itself.

Trust me, I understand where you're coming from. I can't wait for set up decks to return in force either. It was a bitter pill to swallow when I suggested it. However, we aren't quite there yet so try to understand where I'm coming from.

 

[chriscobi634]

If you wanna win easily do either LuxChomp or DialgaChomp. This format is alright, everyone is just sick of it because it's pretty much been Luxray dominating every format since it came out, so with LuxChomp being the top deck everyone hates this format. But if you haven't been around the last couple years then it's actually not really that bad of a format.

 

[Shen]

You're right, he won't lose those cards (well maybe Charizard) but they aren't overly competitive right now. And if there isn't an immediate rotation with BW release those 50 HP Charmanders, Vulpix, and Cyndaquils (even if 3 are played during set up) don't stand a chance through the first turn when facing off with the deck I suggested. And one thing is certain in that case- The deck I suggested will be out there in one form or another.

I just don't want him to get frustrated and quit because of a lousy format. What I suggested gives him a fighting chance regardless of skill level, won't break the bank in obtaining, and will likely pay for itself.

Trust me, I understand where you're coming from. I can't wait for set up decks to return in force either. It was a bitter pill to swallow when I suggested it. However, we aren't quite there yet so try to understand where I'm coming from.

Right I know what you mean, Charizard isn't exactly taking any tournaments. All I'm saying is the only deck that is playable now that will still be post rotation is Charizard, I can't really think of a better example. The only reason I brought it to his attention was because it is still a playable deck. Ctrl + F in the "What won States" or "Cities" threads for Charizard and its name pops up occasionally. It's definitely something you could go to a tournament with.

If he wants something to win with I'd say go get something else -- like Luxchomp -- now and pick up something else when we know the new format. But that sounds a bit more frustrating than losing a couple of bad games with Charizard honestly >.> Luxchomp (or in your situation, Sableye) becomes almost entirely obsolete and at the same time he doesn't have a new deck to play.