Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

What is the general feeling of Cash tournaments in Pokemon?

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garyis2000 said:
21 and over can legally play for a cash prize in most states IF its a game of skill...which pokemon is. It's much like bowling leagues.
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In Washington state Pokemon would be considered game of chance, thus if there was an entry fee involved (30+3 for example) it would be illegal gambling.

The law here says that if there is ANY element of chance then it is a game of chance. We have been tryng to get poker recognized as a game of skill for years to no avail.
 
slyther said:
In Washington state Pokemon would be considered game of chance, thus if there was an entry fee involved (30+3 for example) it would be illegal gambling.

The law here says that if there is ANY element of chance then it is a game of chance. We have been tryng to get poker recognized as a game of skill for years to no avail.
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Do you not have side events at your Cities or States which have a buy-in?
 
Kayle said:
No! Do you? I've never heard of such a thing (aside from a prerelease or draft)!
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Most of the ones in the areas Carlos and I have been to have buy-ins that range from minor ($5 Modified) to extravagant ($30 TDC).

When I was running events, I always did two side events. One $5 Modified, everybody gets a pack, one pack per player in the prize pool. One $15 5-pack draft, 1 pack per 2 players into the prize pool.

The Chicago PTO runs a bunch of different sides, all of them 8-mans. $15 Win-A-Box. $15 4-pack draft, 4 packs prize (can be done draft, sealed, mutant, etc). $15 Tin Can Sealed (or draft, mutant). $15 TDC.

We do this so that players can get prizes for their tournaments, and we've never felt wrong for doing so.
 
bullados said:
The Chicago PTO runs a bunch of different sides, all of them 8-mans. $15 Win-A-Box. $15 4-pack draft, 4 packs prize (can be done draft, sealed, mutant, etc). $15 Tin Can Sealed (or draft, mutant). $15 TDC.
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For what it's worth, the Chicago PTO (Jimmy) also owns card stores and vends at his events. So does Vince down in St. Louis, who just had side events like this at his Regionals last weekend. I don't know if it makes a difference with regards to taking in cash, just pointing it out.
 
slyther said:
In Washington state Pokemon would be considered game of chance, thus if there was an entry fee involved (30+3 for example) it would be illegal gambling.

The law here says that if there is ANY element of chance then it is a game of chance. We have been tryng to get poker recognized as a game of skill for years to no avail.
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So Washington doesn't have Poker?
 
garyis2000 said:
So Washington doesn't have Poker?
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They have it. Its just considered gambling which means that people 21 (or it might be 18) and older can only play it at casinos for money.

Most games that involve probabilities, odds and randomization are considered games of chance.

The main issues with TCGs and money is that have a big younger fan base that is going to show up to play in your tournaments. Your going to have a lot of people under 18 which is why you cant have money involved. Other wise this is considered "illegal" gambling (its illegal since again you have minors). Most TCG's are considered gambling and lets even be realistic, a lot of these games do end up coming down to luck. Games live or die by the coin at times.
 
So in Washington, there is no distinction between playing a game with an entry fee and a cash prize at the end versus playing a game where you are actively betting on the results?
 
Online is soo risky in terms of money. Its not like a poker site in which it is monitored, and an outcome comes out by a computer, not a player. Not saying it would happen, but if you were to do online, there would have to be some sort of "judge" otherwise someone saying they won 2-1 in reality they never won at all could happen.

Don't get me wrong, online play would be incredibly cost affective, there is NO doubt about that. I'd love to join the group, but you seem a little full.
 
Otaku: more or less yes.

Here is the Washington Gambling Commission's position paper:
http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/newsletters/5-228.pdf

If someone were to hold a pokemon turnament where no money went to the house/organizer/room rent,etc then everyone involved woul qualify as a social card game 'Player' under RCW 9.46.0265 and that would be ok. But as soon as there is a rake or anything that causes less than 100% ofbuyins to be returned as prizes then it becomes illegal. ($30 buyin is ok, $30+3 is not unless it's held by a licensed casino)
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.46.0265

Poker is my game. We've been trying to get poker classified as a skill game but under Washington law if there is ANY element of chance (which drawing of cards is), then it is gambling, regardless of the amount of skill required.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.46.0225
 
slyther said:
In Washington state Pokemon would be considered game of chance, thus if there was an entry fee involved (30+3 for example) it would be illegal gambling.

The law here says that if there is ANY element of chance then it is a game of chance. We have been tryng to get poker recognized as a game of skill for years to no avail.
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Yugioh requires entry fees all over, and there are even shops here in WA where they charge for pokemon LEAGUE!

So, are those to be considered illegal then?
 
Not sure how I'd feel about it. Even if there's fairly little at stake (ie. a 8-player Battle Road), some players just always have that cutthroat mentality. I'm not that competitive personally. I wouldn't be surprised if the chance of winning big would further detriment the attitude towards the game.

That said, right now I see no reason to play in tournaments whatsoever, because packs are pretty much worthless and in fact negative moneywise. Often I'll find myself spending more on travel costs than the packs are worth. So considering that, I think prize money would also pull some people back to tournament play.

I definitely think it's something to consider, keeping in mind that the prize money should not be too high, because that would raise the entry free beyond people's budget. I think a 15-20$ fee would be acceptable.
 
r3skyline said:
Yugioh requires entry fees all over, and there are even shops here in WA where they charge for pokemon LEAGUE!

So, are those to be considered illegal then?
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Not necessarily. There are 3 elements required fo it to be illegal gambling:
1. Prize
2. Element of chance
3. Consideration (Entry Fee)

This is why the poker leagues that got set up in bars had to be free entry.

Now would the state gambing control board bust a pokemon tournament? I doubt it but who knows.
 
FSULugia said:
a lot of these games do end up coming down to luck.
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99% of games have a luck element...even football, baseball etc. I guess based on Wahingtons law you COULD have cash prize chess or checkers tournament? No luck element so putting money on them isn't gambling. Is that right?

---------- Post added 01/27/2013 at 10:18 AM ----------

I've been playing poker since the early 1970s in Gardena, California. I ran poker rooms here in Vegas since 1980. Odd how poker has been legal in Cali for decades yet nearby Washington is still illegal except in casinos today.
 
garyis2000 said:
99% of games have a luck element...even football, baseball etc. I guess based on Wahingtons law you COULD have cash prize chess or checkers tournament? No luck element so putting money on them isn't gambling. Is that right?

---------- Post added 01/27/2013 at 10:18 AM ----------

I've been playing poker since the early 1970s in Gardena, California. I ran poker rooms here in Vegas since 1980. Odd how poker has been legal in Cali for decades yet nearby Washington is still illegal except in casinos today.
Click to expand...

Those games dont involve randomization which is a big difference. Your not flipping coins in chess or drawing cards in football. Your not playing with pieces of these games face down (prizes in Pokemon). Most card games involve luck since your using things like coins, dice, playing with concealed cards, things that nobody has control over. When a game has aspects that neither player can control, its not skill based.
 
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