Which to believe? IV calculator or the guy?

Discussion in 'Ask The VG Experts!' started by Benzo, May 4, 2012.

  1. Benzo

    Benzo Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator

    The guy in the Subway that tells you what "the best quality" of a Pokemon's Individual values is either lying or something is wrong.

    Twice now, I have had an Event Mewtwo that I want to be 31 I V'd in sp.att and spd with a Modest/Alert to sounds nature (which, has been frustrating with so much SR'n and I have managed to get Hasty/mischievious with 31 in both spc.att and Speed)--
    Since I SR when I pick up the M2 from the delivery guy in the PC, check, SR, ect.......
    When I think I have one worth checking I take it to the Subway Guy to get results as a quick way to check without having to input the info into the calculator.

    At level 70, the Hasty M2 has had 31's the highest yet I have seen for the two stats is 266 in spec.att and 228 in speed.

    Which one is lying? The Subway guy is programed in, the Calculator is not. The Subway Guy has been accurit on everything else, but not with the M2.

    Is it because it is an event Pokemon? Why wont the guy ever say it is realetivly superior when the M2 has been modest/alert to sounds (on the SR'n) when the spec.att is 266 and the spd is 228?

  2. pokemonrocks777

    pokemonrocks777 Front Page News Editor

    i suggest pokecheck thats to me seems to be the most accurate however it does not work on events so idk for sure
  3. Regis_Neo

    Regis_Neo Moderator

    Well you could be more specific, what are his sayings exactly? Remember the IV man has several different levels (c/ped from another site):

    (The first statement)
    If the IV total is between 0 and 90:
    "This Pokemon's potential is decent all around."
    If the IV total is between 91 and 120:
    "This Pokemon's potential is above average overall."
    If the IV total is between 121 and 150:
    "This Pokemon has relatively superior potential overall."
    If the IV total is between 151 and 186:
    "This Pokemon has outstanding potential overall."

    (The second statement)
    If the highest IV is between 0 and 15: "It's rather decent in that regard."
    If the highest IV is between 16 and 25: "It's very good in that regard."
    If the highest IV is between 26 and 30:"It's fantastic in that regard."
    If the highest IV is 31: "It can't be better in that regard."

    The first saying (which is where I think you're getting confused) denotes total IVs as a whole for the Pokemon. So relatively superior means you have likely several IVs in the 20s and higher on average, though remember it's an average; a Pokemon can have several IVs with 31 and the rest low 10s or barely above zero.

    This is where the second statement comes in, and overall it's is the only one that matters in determining specific IVs: he lists exactly the range of IVs for the best stat. And he will list every IV that is the same, so say if you have a flawless (31/31/31/31/31/31) Pokemon, he will say HP, Atk, Def, SpA, SpD, and Spe can't be better in that regard. Or if you have a Mewtwo with 31 in SpA and Spe, he will list those, and you can then use a calc to determine the rest. So if anything, always go with the IV man, he is always right.

    Going into stat calcs, most have a degree of variance since similar IVs (like 30 and 31) both "share" a stat number for better lack of words; with no external influences, 226 spe will usually mean either a 30 or 31 IV in Spe at Lv 70 for a Hasty Mewtwo. So again, back to the IV man, if you have him check it out and he declares Spe "can't be better in that regard", you know for sure it's 31, otherwise it's 30 (or lower). I personally recommend Metalkid's as I find it to be the most accurate (and it supports giving EVs or leveling to narrow down IV results), but otherwise you won't know a stat's IV for certain unless you level (while keeping track of EVs if not using Rare Candy) to 100 or catch the Pokemon at Lv 100, such as the Arceus from a bit ago.

    So tldr; IV man always right, calcs can be wrong. Don't trust the characteristic saying either at face value; for example, while "likes to thrash about" is what appears for a 31 Atk IV, but it shares the same slot as any IV with a 1 or 6 in it, so unless you can verify it or the stats back it up, don't go by it. Finally, for what it's worth, +Spe Mewtwo is a much better option than Modest, you need the Spe in order to not lose out to +Spe Darkrai and such. And IV man works fine on event Pokemon too, he verified my Mewtwo just fine.

    Hope that helps a bit :thumb:
    Last edited: May 4, 2012
  4. Benzo

    Benzo Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator

    @Regis: I will try to be a bit more specific- I am not too sure as how to word it.
    I have had a hard time deciding if I want a +spe M2 vs a +spc.att. M2. As it is, M2 has a pretty high spe. stat that outruns alot of Pokies. Since M2 is banned in most tournaments, the Spec.att. M2 seems to be better suited for not-so-competative settings. Hits harder and still outruns alot.

    Since it is the event M2, it has speedball- which makes me want to have it +spe., but since M2 has psystrike (spc.att. that hits opponant defence)- it seems to sort of "cancel" the need for speed.

    I thought if the guy says "relativily superior" was the 151-186- since "outstanding" is not as significant compared to the definition of "superior".

    The M2 has not had a stat that is higher in 266 (exception is HP) at level 70. Every time I check the M2 with the guy when the stat in Spc.att is 266, I get "above average", not once has it been said as anything else. Even with a modest nature.
    The last M2 I sr'd on was Modest, alert to sounds- and the spc.att was 266 and the speed was 208. The guy said it was "decent" all around.

    Either I am not understanding how base stats are and how the iv's are calculated with a nature that is in favor of spc.att (I know the base speed stat is not the same as the spc.att, so the difference is like +/- 36(?) (I think the most "+??" in ev's is 36 to the stat with the nature bonus)(or am I incorrect on that?)

    even though I am excelent in math, wording (and spelling, but I know definitions like crazy)- I think I have my wires crossed somewhere.

    It is not like in the "old days" where it didn't matter if the Pokie didn't have a 31 iv to max it out. I have a Metagross from "old school" that is adament but was not 31 (back when I first started ev training and didn't know about IV's) but it ended up with 405 att. in the end. Which makes me think that IV's dont really matter.

    See, I get a lot of the "technicalities" confused. I did iv check (oh, and I do use metalkids calculator, as was pointed out to me by I think you and Ulti long time ago--which that calculator rocks vs other ones) on a nutural natured M2 that had 240 in spc.att and 208 in spe.- which the guy said it was "reletivaly superior", and the calculator said it was 31 in both spc.att. and spe.

    Thats why I am confused. I have twice sr'd on hasty/alert to sounds with 31's- and I rarely have seen Modest nature-
    (I get rng concept, don't understand the proggie, I learn things better by "monkey see, monkey do)- but
    just getting the guy to say "relativly superior" when I do have 266 in spc.att and the guy says "above average"
    the minimum number must be 266 then?

    hope I am making more sence and you see hwere it is I am confused. Something is not adding up, and I just am not sure why 266 is not a 31 iv when that is the highest I have seen it to be.
  5. Regis_Neo

    Regis_Neo Moderator

    I'm guessing you mean Electro Ball over speed ball (the electric type attack that deals more damage the faster the user is over the opponent). If that's the case though I wouldn't bother, Thunderbolt will deal more relative damage most of the time as if you consider the uber environment, most Pokemon run around Base 90+ Spe anyways, it really isn't that useful at all.

    Remember again, with the IV man's first saying is the total of the IVs; your first example (266 SpA and 208 SpE in his stats) Mewtwo is "decent" all around because while it had a 31 IV in SpA and 30-31 in Spe, the rest of the IVs would have worked out likely to below 10. In examples where you're seeing Mewtwo listed as "above average", while it may have a 31 SpA IV, the rest of the IVs are still relatively low, which cause him to state that.

    So again, IV man only states the TOTAL of the IVs, not the stat total; do not mistaken it for a stat total, as I think this is where you are getting confused from reading your post.

    Way back in Emerald I'm guessing (when you say old school), the IV man would not state every IV that is 31, as he is programmed to randomly state 1 of the highest. So if that Metagross had another 31 IV, say in Defense, you would have needed to talked to him repeatedly in order to see if there were any more. The only way Metagross can have 405 Atk is with a +Atk Nature, 252 Atk EVs, and a 31 IV in Atk, so you likely did get one and are confused as likely your Metagross had another stat (or more) with 31 IVs. You can confirm this in a calc if you remember the other EVs you trained it in.
  6. Benzo

    Benzo Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator

    As far as Emerald and how long ago it has been- Did the guy only say which stat has the best IV(s) and it did not include the over-all total of the IV"s combined?

    If that is the case, that explains my confusion. I learn something every day. I believe I get it now.

    Thanks for clearing this up. Some of the stuff they have changed in the games like the stat increasing DURING leveling up vs gaining it AFTER the level up- man, that change confused the daylights out of me as well. I didn't look into everything that changed in BW, I just looked up what Pokemon to battle to earn the right ev's, and, freaked out when I didn't see "+36"- I was t.o.'d- an dof course, came here to ask and vent, lol.

    You are correct on it being Electro Ball, that was a "red-head brain freeze moment".

    The event M2 is better of having t-bolt, this I know. It is times like this that I should have a second game cartridge- I would have one for trade bargining and one for battles.

    Thanks again! (now, you can expect me to "haunt you" for technical stuff!):thumb:
  7. Regis_Neo

    Regis_Neo Moderator

    No in Emerald he did both sayings as well, but still don't let it throw you off; just remember the first one will be about IV totals (which you don't really need to bother with off the bat, just remember relatively superior and outstanding indicate usually high IVs all around), it is still the second saying when he'll list a stat specifically to tell its IV that's important. Anyways, if you're more interested in them, bulbapedia has an article about all them funny enough with the right wording: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Stats_judge

    But yeah, BW is also different in stat gains from EV training, they're calculated and applied immediately which is why you don't see the +36s and stuff like you said lol.
  8. Benzo

    Benzo Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator

    ^yeah- my biggest issue with this whole subject is that I never did look into if anything changed IV/EV wise. I assumed that the mechanics where going to be basically the same (yet I also never looked to much into this matter for emrald, I turned "competative" then) since I was able to just use the calculator and look at what wild Pokies in BW earned what points to train.

    Bulbapedia and Serebii have been my "rescource" sites, and not too long ago the "unmentionable" site as well.
    This site here is where I have prefered to chat, since alot of the people in the Pokemon scene are on here that I know personally.

    Your knowledge in all of this stuff is very appreciated- glad to have a person like ya around.
    Glad the site has opted to branch out further into the VG side on here, hopefully it'll grow and be more then they expected. People like you will will keep this area around for a long time.

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