vaporeon
Moderator
Well, think about it. The way things are now, basic pokemon are taking over.130 HP is a lot. Now they will have 170 and 180 respectively, hitting everything for 150. Basic pokemon are too powerful and are very fast.
Which trainer/supporter do you MOST want to see get rotated out?
- Thread starter FMaholic
- Start date
Well, think about it. The way things are now, basic pokemon are taking over.130 HP is a lot. Now they will have 170 and 180 respectively, hitting everything for 150. Basic pokemon are too powerful and are very fast.
CMsvW
New Member
Want long strategic games? Keep the candy rules and no BTS. The game would be even faster and losing to a stage 2 out of nowhere is just dumb. You can't plan for that, nor can you anticipate it.
Junk arms put a LOT more skill in the game. Knowing which trainer to get, knowing which cards to discard...that takes skill...which people should want in the game =o
Honestly, trainer and supporters are pretty fine the way they are now. Basics are broken because of how powerful they are, NOT because of trainers. I could make an argument for catcher, but honestly, I think the card adds a layer of skill to the game.
This thread just feels like a "I wanna complain...because I always complain and am never happy with the state of the game" type of thread
Junk arms put a LOT more skill in the game. Knowing which trainer to get, knowing which cards to discard...that takes skill...which people should want in the game =o
Honestly, trainer and supporters are pretty fine the way they are now. Basics are broken because of how powerful they are, NOT because of trainers. I could make an argument for catcher, but honestly, I think the card adds a layer of skill to the game.
This thread just feels like a "I wanna complain...because I always complain and am never happy with the state of the game" type of thread
Slowkingrocks
New Member
Just gonna throw out there that having 4 extra copies of every trainer in your deck does not add skill. It removes the tough choices like "I will need 3 of X vs. this matchup, but 3 of Y vs. this matchup" and replaces them with "better put in 1 of each and essentially I run 5!"
Junk arm streamlines deck's efficiency by letting them discard un-needed cards based on the matchup, and gives them extreme versatility and an easy-mode feel by letting them get away with 1-ofs and ridiculous combinations like using up to 8 Pokemon Catcher in a single game.
I feel like Junk Arm would be healthy if used in a restricted-style manner, as then it would be a nice card, but not abusive to the point where against status condition decks you can run 1 switch and have it every turn, against decks where you need more damage you can double pluspower every turn while running only a few copies, etc.
Obviously, P!P does not want a ban or restricted list, so that's just an unrealistic dream. But, to be honest, Junk Arm is the cog that makes all the trainer/catcher based decks dominate. When there's basically a trainer for everything in the game, Junk Arm becomes the quintessential "must play" card, as it will basically get you anything you need.
I don't have a large issue with Junk Arm, but it certainly does not add skill to the game.
CMsvW
New Member
How does choosing which trainer to get and which cards to discard not take skill?
It doesn't dumb down deck building at all. I still have to know rather to run 1-2 pluspower or 2-3 catchers.
It adds more skill, because without junk arm, if you only ran 1-2 switch, you would just lose to statuses conditions. No matter how good you were, you would lose. With Junk arm, you can turn your bad matchups to even matchups and try to make things work. You would still have to manage resources and figure out the best way to draw into the initial switch, so there's that skill that wouldn't previously be there.
It doesn't dumb down deck building at all. I still have to know rather to run 1-2 pluspower or 2-3 catchers.
It adds more skill, because without junk arm, if you only ran 1-2 switch, you would just lose to statuses conditions. No matter how good you were, you would lose. With Junk arm, you can turn your bad matchups to even matchups and try to make things work. You would still have to manage resources and figure out the best way to draw into the initial switch, so there's that skill that wouldn't previously be there.
Ignatious
New Member
What is wrong with basic pokemon being better? I would prefer the game to be that way.
And I did play during Rocket's Admin. It was a fair and game balancing card then, and it helps even more so now with Catcher around.
EDIT: It definitely takes skill to build a list even with Junk Arm around. Each and every deck wants thick lines, a boat load of supports, a plethora of energy and all the tech trainers they have space for. With or without Junk Arm this is true.
That would make Gothitelle so much fun to play against! BTS + Candy = T1 trainer lock.
I do, however, agree with the Turn One Rule. Games are more interesting when going first and going second offer different bonuses.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
No point to this topic, but jmo...
Item: Catcher is fine in a format that would otherwise be Reversal-heavy, but Junk Arm just makes dumb decks even dumber. Let's up the collective IQ by getting rid of Junk Arm...
Supporter: Rotate/ban none of the current Supporters, since they are all balanced, fair cards for the most part.
Stadium: Tropical Beach by a landslide, but only due to the limited supply.
Item: Catcher is fine in a format that would otherwise be Reversal-heavy, but Junk Arm just makes dumb decks even dumber. Let's up the collective IQ by getting rid of Junk Arm...
Supporter: Rotate/ban none of the current Supporters, since they are all balanced, fair cards for the most part.
Stadium: Tropical Beach by a landslide, but only due to the limited supply.
badganondorf
New Member
Junk arm. It makes the deckbuilding too easy and stale. You either play it or play against it - it's a sign of a non-healthy card.
Vulpix Yolk
New Member
The Trainers in this format are pretty perfect. Collector is great, I like fast games and being able to set up, and Catcher makes Ross's not the most overpowered thing in the history of the game, so that's pretty nifty. If one trainer had to get rotated, I would like to see Eviolite go, do the Dragons and soon to come exs really need to be any bulkier for basics? It's a problem when it takes 200 damage to one shot a basic Pokémon.
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King Piplup
Active Member
Someone needs to break Lugia Legend....
vaporeon
Moderator
work on it. 17171717
In this order:
1) Junk Arm
2) Catcher
3) PlusPower
I don't like Junk Arm for reasons others have already stated. Numbers 2, 3, and Pokemon Reversal wouldn't even be problems without Junk Arm. Catcher is annoying because it makes fast decks/Vileplume way too dominant over setup decks. PlusPower is just bad because you have to get lucky to draw into it, so games where you need PlusPower automatically become somewhat more luck-based than they need to be. I prefer a 2HKO format to an OHKO one any day. Numbers 2 & 3 just promote an OHKO format in their own ways. PlusPower also creates an occasional donk. I remember a testing game where I got donked by a Cyndaquil using Beat (irony?) for 50 damage.
The one bad thing about killing PlusPower is that it might make Magnezone too dominant, since it avoids KOs from most stuff without PlusPower and it's not at all reliant on PlusPower.
1) Junk Arm
2) Catcher
3) PlusPower
I don't like Junk Arm for reasons others have already stated. Numbers 2, 3, and Pokemon Reversal wouldn't even be problems without Junk Arm. Catcher is annoying because it makes fast decks/Vileplume way too dominant over setup decks. PlusPower is just bad because you have to get lucky to draw into it, so games where you need PlusPower automatically become somewhat more luck-based than they need to be. I prefer a 2HKO format to an OHKO one any day. Numbers 2 & 3 just promote an OHKO format in their own ways. PlusPower also creates an occasional donk. I remember a testing game where I got donked by a Cyndaquil using Beat (irony?) for 50 damage.
The one bad thing about killing PlusPower is that it might make Magnezone too dominant, since it avoids KOs from most stuff without PlusPower and it's not at all reliant on PlusPower.
Envoyofduels
New Member
Otaku
Active Member
Incorrect. We haven't had a format where Pokemon Reversal was as heavily used as did pre-Pokemon Catcher not just because of Junk Arm (though it did contribute), but because of the metagame. Pokemon Reversal has been with the game a long time, but when you honestly study the history of the TCG you see that usually there was another trainer that was better (Pokemon Catcher, Pow! Hand Extension, Double Gust, Warp Point), a Pokemon with a built in Pokemon Reversal like effect or incredibly potent Bench hitting attack. The diversity of the options is what blinded me to it before.
Even without Junk Arm and Pokemon Catcher, Pokemon Reversal will be a problem. Will some decks wrecked by Pokemon Catcher and Pokemon Reversal/Junk Arm will be viable... only because enough people will play them that it is improbable all will be knocked out of tournaments early by their opponent getting "heads" on all four Pokemon Reversal. This is Pokemon, if you don't set-up right away, your opponent usually does.
I don't like how things are, but why take a step backwards by having a false diversity in your metagame? We get back to Flippymon with Pokemon Reversal and the HGSS Baby Pokemon.
No more than any other Trainer you can't search out, which is most of them. Even without Junk Arm, two kinds of decks run PlusPower: those that just need to run one or two for the occasional surprise of an extra 10 damage, and those that max it out because it is a concrete part of their strategy. Sometimes it is a strategy I don't like, but nonetheless "luck" isn't really part of it, at least for a game like Pokemon with its draw and search power. Yes, searching for other pieces of a combo helps because it means you just have to draw into the PlusPower.
Creating a Pokemon format that lacks even the possibility of any donk basically wrecks the game. The occasional donk happens. If you got taken out by a donk from a Cyndaquil using Beat for 50 damage... either your deck wasn't well balanced or you just suffered bad luck. If you really want to eliminate the donk, start a petition to change the core rules so you don't automatically lose without a Pokemon, but give up a Prize for every turn your opponent attacks for damage without you having a Pokemon in play.
Considering how many times I wished for PlusPower in the formats before it was reprinted, there are plenty of Pokemon that become too strong because suddenly the guys who already OHKO most stuff? Still do. The stuff that used to be able to OHKO them back with PlusPower? Now they can't.
PlusPower seems to only be an issue when it is super-easy to recycle, or when the draw/search power allows a person to easily draw into two or more first turn. Easily draw, not possibly draw.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
..........Really?
I'd be okay with BTS and Rare Candy being prenerf if there was a general rule that you can only play Supporters on your first turn.
As in... both players can only play 1 Supporter until both players have taken a turn. Then it's on! Would eliminate T1 Candy/BTS shenanigans while retaining the ability to guard against donks.
The alternative would be if we lost Collector but got an SS Dunsparce like card.
As in... both players can only play 1 Supporter until both players have taken a turn. Then it's on! Would eliminate T1 Candy/BTS shenanigans while retaining the ability to guard against donks.
The alternative would be if we lost Collector but got an SS Dunsparce like card.
ShadowGuard
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
If something has to be rotated, it's Junk Arm, for all the reasons already mentioned.
For Catcher, while broken as a card, it's too late to rotate it out cause of other cards that would instantly become broken without Catcher/Reversal. Just imagine Mewtwo ex with Gardevoir or any of the new Pokémon-ex with eviolite and Reuinclus in a format without Catcher.
For Catcher, while broken as a card, it's too late to rotate it out cause of other cards that would instantly become broken without Catcher/Reversal. Just imagine Mewtwo ex with Gardevoir or any of the new Pokémon-ex with eviolite and Reuinclus in a format without Catcher.