I have swaying opinions. Most of the time my opinion is that I prefer YGO.
I don't bash on either side, but I give small flaws that determine my opinion.
Yugioh, decline and cheating?
- Thread starter Crinus
- Start date
I have swaying opinions. Most of the time my opinion is that I prefer YGO.
I don't bash on either side, but I give small flaws that determine my opinion.
hunter994x
New Member
Like Crinus said, Pokemon has problems and I acknowledge that as well. However, Yugioh's problems are far worse and multiple. It's not being biased. Those problems exist and it's causing that game to become a mess especially the lack of skill. All you need is the best deck and you win.
Like stated many times, Konami does not know what their doing. If they did, we wouldn't have to deal with such expensive cards. Worse, when one top deck gets the boot, you have to spend hundreds to get the new deck. No game should require that much money to build a deck.
Every card game has its problems. Yugioh's problems tend to be worse.
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goldberg123
New Member
crinus - i understand tht what yugioh used to be. but if u see yugioh now, there r like a variety of like 8-9 different decks in the top 16 at major events. there r more then just 1 mazing deck now.
carvahna - thts what im saying. im not saying yugioh is perfect, but to be honest pokemon is only really fun becaue tornaments r free. other then tht id rather play yugioh
hunter - yugioh has changed a little bit ovr the years. but u saying u need the best deck to win. thts exactly like pokemon. before worlds, u need yanmega or magnexone to win or u werent going to win at all. now we have donk decks like ZPS and everybody joining the ban waggon reshiphlosion deck. there r literally like 4-5 decent decks in pokemon right now, which is far less then wha yugioh is right now
carvahna - thts what im saying. im not saying yugioh is perfect, but to be honest pokemon is only really fun becaue tornaments r free. other then tht id rather play yugioh
hunter - yugioh has changed a little bit ovr the years. but u saying u need the best deck to win. thts exactly like pokemon. before worlds, u need yanmega or magnexone to win or u werent going to win at all. now we have donk decks like ZPS and everybody joining the ban waggon reshiphlosion deck. there r literally like 4-5 decent decks in pokemon right now, which is far less then wha yugioh is right now
8-9 different deck in yugioh?
I call shenanigans, Grave Keeper which is about the cheapest deck you can run can be competitive, but its not going to top 8.
Top 16 doesnt even matter at major events, its about top 8 and more so about the top 4, I top 16 at 2 events using Zombies one time and Warriors the next I think it was, overall record I was like 4-3 or 3-3 in doing so when that was no where near being an elite deck.
I call shenanigans, Grave Keeper which is about the cheapest deck you can run can be competitive, but its not going to top 8.
Top 16 doesnt even matter at major events, its about top 8 and more so about the top 4, I top 16 at 2 events using Zombies one time and Warriors the next I think it was, overall record I was like 4-3 or 3-3 in doing so when that was no where near being an elite deck.
goldberg123
New Member
look at the last couple of events tht happened. there r variety of decks out there now. especially in this new set coming out there will be more great decks to play with tht arent broken. literally in pokemon there r a maximum of like 5 decks tht u can win with in pokemon
hunter994x
New Member
Then explain why Yugioh's meta can easily be broken by just one or two cards as opposed to Pokemon. Not saying it hasn't happened in Pokemon, it seems to be more of a problem in Yugioh. You can't deny that's a problem. It's usually those cards who are the big money cards.
As for the variety, the game HAS changed since Tele-DAD got the boot but Yugioh is also very unstable. That ties in with what I said about the meta being easily broken. That's why I said if the Yata-Garasu rumor is true, it's doomsday for Yugioh.
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As for the variety, the game HAS changed since Tele-DAD got the boot but Yugioh is also very unstable. That ties in with what I said about the meta being easily broken. That's why I said if the Yata-Garasu rumor is true, it's doomsday for Yugioh.
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hunter994x
New Member
@Crinus: It is possible to have variety in the game, it's the players that the problems. Back in 2008, the SJCs(and maybe some of the early YCS), were virutally dominated by Tele-Dad and Lightsworns. I don't think anyone attempted to try something else. However, I don't see 8 different decks in the Top 8. Not even Pokemon has that in their tournaments IIRC.
That could EASILY happen again and knowing Konami, it probably will. Yugioh would be so much better if Konami WASN'T in charge.
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That could EASILY happen again and knowing Konami, it probably will. Yugioh would be so much better if Konami WASN'T in charge.
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Thats what I mean when I say they need to just go ahead and ban almost every good card their is.
Like I said earlier its quite a mess to come up with a very unique well thought out strategy in the game only for it to be shot down by 4-5 over powered cards if not more in a deck.
Like I said earlier its quite a mess to come up with a very unique well thought out strategy in the game only for it to be shot down by 4-5 over powered cards if not more in a deck.
hunter994x
New Member
Also, not everyone can afford those big meta decks. When one deck becomes cheap to build, there's usually another money deck.
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money decks purpose is to beat common decks.
they want to become the best player so they going to spend heavily.
every tournament ive been to in yugioh was dominated by 1-2 players who had everything in their deck usually.
theirs no real competition in it, regionals rolls around, the 1-2 players dominating locals, was topping out in them, again its the best decks winning, so when Nationals and Worlds comes along, your best players are never present, if you can even appoint a best player in yugioh for the U.S. which I wouldnt do given the state of the game.
We can bring up the fact about limiting cards to the OCG and all that bull why no U.S. player ever won worlds, I think its more of a fact the best players in the U.S. was never in worlds in the first place, large percentage of them probably wasnt the best players in nationals either.
Best players IMO is the ones who is not copying decks that win card for card, so this pretty much eliminates the Top 200 or so in the U.S. almost.
All of this goes back to being a Konami and Kevin Tewart problem.
they want to become the best player so they going to spend heavily.
every tournament ive been to in yugioh was dominated by 1-2 players who had everything in their deck usually.
theirs no real competition in it, regionals rolls around, the 1-2 players dominating locals, was topping out in them, again its the best decks winning, so when Nationals and Worlds comes along, your best players are never present, if you can even appoint a best player in yugioh for the U.S. which I wouldnt do given the state of the game.
We can bring up the fact about limiting cards to the OCG and all that bull why no U.S. player ever won worlds, I think its more of a fact the best players in the U.S. was never in worlds in the first place, large percentage of them probably wasnt the best players in nationals either.
Best players IMO is the ones who is not copying decks that win card for card, so this pretty much eliminates the Top 200 or so in the U.S. almost.
All of this goes back to being a Konami and Kevin Tewart problem.
hunter994x
New Member
If he is really planning on bringing back Yata, that should convince many that Konami doesn't know what they're doing.
Yata's been on the banlist for 7 years for a reason.
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Yata's been on the banlist for 7 years for a reason.
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goldberg123
New Member
what u guys r saying is truw. but hunter when u said yugioh can make 1 or 2 cards to make the game brken, look what just got released for pokemon. POKEMON CATCHER. tht card has single handly ruined this game for the format. tht card makes luxray x a waste of card board. and pokemon is the same thing with price. the top decks were yanmega and magneboar before worlds. yanmegas hit ovr 60 each and u need 3-4 of them. magneboar needed 2-3 magnezones which were about 40 each and emboar at the time was 10 each tht u needed 4 of.
but i can list the yugioh decks tht r winning right now but idk if u guys know what im talking about. yes they keep making money cards but there r decks tht keep up with the deck tht can do just as good as the main meta deck
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and yata would never ever come back. black luster soldier was broken back then but now he is just an ok card. hes not as broken as back in the day.
but i can list the yugioh decks tht r winning right now but idk if u guys know what im talking about. yes they keep making money cards but there r decks tht keep up with the deck tht can do just as good as the main meta deck
---------- Post added 11/04/2011 at 08:54 AM ----------
and yata would never ever come back. black luster soldier was broken back then but now he is just an ok card. hes not as broken as back in the day.
hunter994x
New Member
hunter994x said:
Did you not see the bold? I am aware Pokemon had/have stuff like that. Catcher and Neo Genesis Sneasel to name a few. Pachirisu, to an extent, could be one.
We get one every now and then in Pokemon but for Yugioh, it seems to be a constant issue. I never said it doesn't happen in Pokemon. Your response makes it look like I said "YGO can be broken by one or two cards and it's never happened in PTCG" which I did NOT say.
And every game is going to have some money cards. Luxray GL LV X used to be 80. PTCG doesn't have to deal with the amount that YGO has/had though.
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goldberg123
New Member
crinos - tht card is more then just a game finisher. its a card tht can ruin an entire play just by bringing out any pokemon ur opponent wants.
hunter - i know what u mean. its just the fact how this whole arguement was about how broken yugioh is but yugioh only really has like 3 expensive cards in the meta right now. pokemon is cheaper then yugioh which is the one of the only reasons y i play this game. but to be completely honest, if yugioh was like pokemon and became a little bit cheaper to play, every1 would transfer ovr to yugioh from pokemon
hunter - i know what u mean. its just the fact how this whole arguement was about how broken yugioh is but yugioh only really has like 3 expensive cards in the meta right now. pokemon is cheaper then yugioh which is the one of the only reasons y i play this game. but to be completely honest, if yugioh was like pokemon and became a little bit cheaper to play, every1 would transfer ovr to yugioh from pokemon
That I dont know about now.
Yugioh player base declines little by little either due to it being too expensive, cheating and stealing.
MTG players say it best though, one of them borrowed one of the top tier decks in a yugioh match and finished 5-2 to get top 8 in a regional, I did the same thing and finished 1st although it wasnt a regional. Theirs a thin line between skill and money in yugioh.
to say if Pokemon players would go yugioh if yugioh was a cheap, I dont know, Pokemon and MTG according to this:
http://icv2.com/articles/markets/20740.html
It runs the mass channel over yugioh.
Why?
Simple, look at prize payout.
Pokemon gives out POP promos, promo cards, prerelease cards, badges, play mats, patches, all sorts of stuff.
MTG gives out money prizes, bunch of packs, promos, no telling what else.
yugioh???
really?
yugioh??
it gives you nothing, win a local you might get a couple of packs, 2nd place and beyond gets very little. Regionals you get nothing but a play mat for top 8, something else for top 4, winner probably gets a booster box (like they really need it seeing they would need nothing out of it anyway since 99.9% chance they got the best deck available, most you do is sell or trade to make money)
I quote this from 1 MTG player:
Yugioh player base declines little by little either due to it being too expensive, cheating and stealing.
MTG players say it best though, one of them borrowed one of the top tier decks in a yugioh match and finished 5-2 to get top 8 in a regional, I did the same thing and finished 1st although it wasnt a regional. Theirs a thin line between skill and money in yugioh.
to say if Pokemon players would go yugioh if yugioh was a cheap, I dont know, Pokemon and MTG according to this:
http://icv2.com/articles/markets/20740.html
It runs the mass channel over yugioh.
Why?
Simple, look at prize payout.
Pokemon gives out POP promos, promo cards, prerelease cards, badges, play mats, patches, all sorts of stuff.
MTG gives out money prizes, bunch of packs, promos, no telling what else.
yugioh???
really?
yugioh??
it gives you nothing, win a local you might get a couple of packs, 2nd place and beyond gets very little. Regionals you get nothing but a play mat for top 8, something else for top 4, winner probably gets a booster box (like they really need it seeing they would need nothing out of it anyway since 99.9% chance they got the best deck available, most you do is sell or trade to make money)
I quote this from 1 MTG player:
hunter994x
New Member
@goldberg: It's not just those. Even non meta and banned cards are expensive. Before it returned, BLS-EOB was an example
of this. The secret rare Magic Formula is a perfect example of this. Mirror Force used to be ridiculuos before it got a common reprint as it was a staple and virtually every set with it was out of print and the card would cost a lot. Before the reprint, new players were screwed unless they had the money to afford it.
I do have a question though: Do people still run Synchros? Another problem I had was the cost of certain ones like Brionac.
@Crinus: You left out those prize cards from tournaments. Even though it's a bit unfair for your typical player.
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of this. The secret rare Magic Formula is a perfect example of this. Mirror Force used to be ridiculuos before it got a common reprint as it was a staple and virtually every set with it was out of print and the card would cost a lot. Before the reprint, new players were screwed unless they had the money to afford it.
I do have a question though: Do people still run Synchros? Another problem I had was the cost of certain ones like Brionac.
@Crinus: You left out those prize cards from tournaments. Even though it's a bit unfair for your typical player.
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Shonen Jump tournaments give something good, a over powered card few in the nation will have for top 4 is it or top 2?
But such a tournament requires you to travel great distances, in living near New Orleans, a SJC never appeared near there, nearest I think was Dallas and Orlando. I dont know if Houston had one or not but it was still a good distance for a card tourney that was probably not worth it.
"Insert Phrase: That allows me to accurately give how I feel about your comments, without getting banned"
Because I just don't think I can do it. He did well so something has to be fishy.
I top 8'd Nationals in 2010 with Frog Monarch Deck a deck considered by many to be Tier 2. 7th out of 1150 people despite only playing 3 tournaments in 12 months...Did I cheat?
Because if I did I'm so good at cheating that I tricked myself
