Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Yugioh, decline and cheating?

Did you cheat?

Only you know that answer.

perhaps if you topped 8 with a Frog Monarch deck its not a tier 2 and more tier 1.5 if not tier 1.

majority of people in yugioh has no clue on what strategy will or will not work anyway, if their is even much a strategy to the game anymore outside of basic reading. They all copy each others deck and WAM! thats your meta for the next several months.

You could of faced alot of lackeys to because most of what goes into Nationals on the U.S. side is players that arent good anyway, and then they go into worlds and get slaughtered. You may of just completely lucked out against the competition.

but who knows, I dont know what goes on in yugioh after 2007 and care to not know, just know its got major flaws and no U.S. player has won worlds which tells alot.
 
Thats funny because I found the exact opposite in yugioh. 95% of yugioh players are total scrubs who think the game has far more lucked involved than it really does, the other 5% who don't are absolutely amazing players, who play near flawlessly this is what allow a majority of them to repeatedly do well at large events of course some of the major players cheat but many don't.

The logic you apply to situations like this is what will always keep you as a Tier 2 player. Because you believe the only reason other achieved success while you didn't is because they were lucky or cheated. Instead of looking over your flaws as a player.

The reason I did well at that tournament was because I realized my short comings as a player. I didn't put enough time or effort into the game to play one of the top tier decks at hits highest level. Instead I played a much simpler straight forward consistent deck I had experience with that was far harder to misplay with. This is something that will hold back any player in any game.
 
hunter994x said:
@goldberg: It's not just those. Even non meta and banned cards are expensive. Before it returned, BLS-EOB was an example
of this. The secret rare Magic Formula is a perfect example of this. Mirror Force used to be ridiculuos before it got a common reprint as it was a staple and virtually every set with it was out of print and the card would cost a lot. Before the reprint, new players were screwed unless they had the money to afford it.

I do have a question though: Do people still run Synchros? Another problem I had was the cost of certain ones like Brionac.

@Crinus: You left out those prize cards from tournaments. Even though it's a bit unfair for your typical player.
Posted with Mobile style...
Click to expand...

I want to add more to this. I have a problem with ANY card that costs at least $30(does Brionac still go for that?) whether it's Pokemon or Yugioh.
Posted with Mobile style...
 
yugioh has other tornaments other then just YCS. there r usually tornament at least every other month tht have either a really nice prize payout or amazing things like flat screen tvs and ipads and stuff. and locals give out credit to the store so u can get what u want. pokemon only has league. sometimes there r tornaments but usually people just playing around for fun which is good. but never any real tornaments besides regionals and nationals(which by the way u dont need any invite or anything required to enter) so there r more scrubs in pokemon tht go to nationals then in yugioh because at least in yugiho u earn ur invited to a major event and not just go because u have the money to go
 
goldberg123 said:
yugioh has other tornaments other then just YCS. there r usually tornament at least every other month tht have either a really nice prize payout or amazing things like flat screen tvs and ipads and stuff. and locals give out credit to the store so u can get what u want. pokemon only has league. sometimes there r tornaments but usually people just playing around for fun which is good. but never any real tornaments besides regionals and nationals(which by the way u dont need any invite or anything required to enter) so there r more scrubs in pokemon tht go to nationals then in yugioh because at least in yugiho u earn ur invited to a major event and not just go because u have the money to go
Click to expand...

Then explain how each year, at least U.S. player made it into the final 4 in Worlds for at least the last 5 years when Yugioh hasn't.
Posted with Mobile style...
 
Hello, my name is Austin Kulman and I am the kid who won Yugioh Nationals in 2006. I only made an account to respond to this thread, someone messaged me about it on facebook. Yu-gi-oh has always been a very competitive game even when I won nationals. Yes there is a small amount of cheating that goes on in this game, but same with every other card game. Also when i won, there were 355 players and now Nationals are averaging over 1,500 players so it definitely isn't declining. By the way, I still play and travel and have topped several large tournaments around the country, I did not when because of a lack of competition. Luck is obviously a factor in the game but theres no way I could have won by misplaying all day.
 
Jaeger said:
Thats funny because I found the exact opposite in yugioh. 95% of yugioh players are total scrubs who think the game has far more lucked involved than it really does, the other 5% who don't are absolutely amazing players, who play near flawlessly this is what allow a majority of them to repeatedly do well at large events of course some of the major players cheat but many don't.

The logic you apply to situations like this is what will always keep you as a Tier 2 player. Because you believe the only reason other achieved success while you didn't is because they were lucky or cheated. Instead of looking over your flaws as a player.

The reason I did well at that tournament was because I realized my short comings as a player. I didn't put enough time or effort into the game to play one of the top tier decks at hits highest level. Instead I played a much simpler straight forward consistent deck I had experience with that was far harder to misplay with. This is something that will hold back any player in any game.
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Yeah thats what I see to.

I put time in the game when I played but never put forth the effort like I will in the next months in Pokemon.
 
Austin_Kulman said:
Hello, my name is Austin Kulman and I am the kid who won Yugioh Nationals in 2006. I only made an account to respond to this thread, someone messaged me about it on facebook. Yu-gi-oh has always been a very competitive game even when I won nationals. Yes there is a small amount of cheating that goes on in this game, but same with every other card game. Also when i won, there were 355 players and now Nationals are averaging over 1,500 players so it definitely isn't declining. By the way, I still play and travel and have topped several large tournaments around the country, I did not when because of a lack of competition. Luck is obviously a factor in the game but theres no way I could have won by misplaying all day.
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Can't tell if trolling or not...random new account created to post specifically to some allegation on a Pokemon tcg forum about an off topic YGO thread he heard about from Facebook...yeah right...
 
I thought the same thing also Regis.

But if by chance it really was Austin Kulman, my hunch would be right that he was a cheater in yugioh based just off of that reply.

Why you ask?

Because Roy St Clair and Arthur P. who ended up both on the player ban list, had very similar things to say on the forums when both were called out on it.

saying it was all luck.

For the record over the years, I was the one who was calling them out on it, I think most people knew Roy St Clair cheated anyway.
I am still on the verge of getting something done with Steven Hills and George Stevens.

They list a Steven L. H. 0100411462 on the player ban site, I dont know if that is Steven Hills or not.

I doubt Nationals is averaging 1000+ players when you need to qualify for it at a Regional or you are high ranked, not sure the rank if they even invite players to nationals for ranks, they use to for worlds.

But Roy St Clairs and Arthur P. luck was marking cards and deck stacking.
 
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You really want me to compare Yu-Gi-Oh! with Pokemon? Well I'll try to be as specific as I can here. Here it goes, oh and to whoever said that "Yu-Gi-Oh! has the Superior Card Game and Pokemon has the Superior Franchise" you need to get a reality check.

Pokemon is BOTH the Better Card Game and Franchise, and yet despite I've already ranted about this on MTGSalvation I guess why not give it a go here on the Gym as well since current YGO! players are still stubborn and ignorant to see the truth about their own TCG. If this still falls on deaf ears then you only have yourself to blame not me. So here's the problems thus far:

* Konami doesn't know how to run Card Games - This is a fact.
Heck former Yu-Gi-Oh! player Rai Kerensky has already proven this on Salvation. I was over there reading what he posted so that's how I know.

* Despite being a fun game, it's VERY headache inducing - You'd have a lot less stress playing Magic and/or Pokemon which in this economy are MUCH better investments. Yu-Gi-Oh! costs alot of money to play as much as the amount of time you invest in it. You're spending MUCH MUCH less when playing Pokemon at the very least while Magic is catching up to Yu-Gi-Oh! in price tournament wise.

* The attitude of alot of players in Yu-Gi-Oh! are really negative and only
certain themes are supported while some themes get 5 cards for their entire theme (Iron Chain) and then some themes are oversupported. Never has there been a TCG that has the most theft and stealing involved than Yu-Gi-Oh!, over the years the game itself drew a bunch of scummy people into the game like at a Yu-Gi-Oh! Regional where the playerbase is an odd mix of regular people and gangsters.

* Power Creep in Yu-Gi-Oh! is constantly out of hand - And the ban list played far too much of a role. Also Synchro Monsters were a huge mistake in general cause they essientally acted as a toolbox of powerhouse cards to trump everything else on the field. As more Synchro's were released along with easier methods were gained for summoning them it pretty much became a requirement to run them or lose unless you played Lightsworn which is like Dredge in Magic.

* Yu-Gi-Oh! is more luck based but not in a fun way - Where a dice roll to determine who went first decided the winner of the game because the player going second didn't get an extra draw or anything. The opening player just wasn't allowed to attack. Yu-Gi-Oh! works where Trap cards have to be set for a turn before you can activate them, so the opening player (whoever was going first) had a huge advantage in being able to set his/her first.

Topdecking a single card could win you the game automatically, even when having a terrible field. You also take into consideration why Yu-Gi-Oh! does not use mulligans to get better starting hands when every other TCG/CCG does. Another problem with Yu-Gi-Oh! is this:

* The game itself was not constructed that well - Leading to some very weird rulings (a.k.a. because Konami says so) there are some really screwed up interactions between cards that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place. For example, look up Brain Golem versus DNA Surgery. Heck I remember the Legendary Fisherman Ruling with Legendary Sea I believe it was WAY back around 2002 some my memory is kind of vague on it.

Now what's the problem with Pokemon currently? Well it's not as bad as Yu-Gi-Oh! but it could be ALOT better. So what are the problems going on with Pokemon currently well let's take a look shall we?

* Black/White 1st Turn Rules - Yeah this has ALOT to do with why the metagame is unbalanced nowadays and at first it seemed like it wasn't as bad as everyone thought it would be. You are still losing tempo advantage to stay even with your opponent so If your opponent goes first that could very well lead you at an unfair disadvantage not as much as Yu-Gi-Oh! though but it could very well be the case however. Depending on the matchup you still have a chance to make a comeback though. So this problem is still up for debate though.

* Power Creep of Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon - I don't know If any of you guys have noticed this however alot of the recent Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon are now trumping Stage 2's to the point where they are attacking for 100+ damage for very low attack costs. It also leads to games ending very quickly unless under Trainer Lock which does infact slow the game down quite a bit however while some Stage 2's like Typhlosion and Magnezone still see a tremendous amount of play there are some that just don't break the mold anymore cause of Type Disadvantage or the threat of Pokemon Catcher from stopping whatever deck is trying to accelerate like Blastoise/Floatzel.

* PUSA and TPCi scaling back on prize support - You might not think this could be a big deal but it can be. I already posted a thread on here regarding the removal of Scholarship programs in the Pokemon TCG as ANY prize support reduction hurts the Pokemon TCG as a whole. Scholarships are a HUGE reason why parents spend time and money to build decks for their kids and by getting rid of that draw you are also hurting a small portion of the games' playerbase being mostly kids in the Junior and Seniors Divisions.

Another problem with the prize support in Pokemon recently is it seems like PUSA and TPCi are trying to do too many things at once instead of taking their time while also listening to their playerbase as well. The "We'll work on it as we go along" mentality can only go for so long and you start to wonder about the people running the TCG and If they are doing a good enough job offering good enough support to their playerbase. I'm glad they are bringing back Gym Badges for Pokemon League but the Promos for Battle Roads this year are just horribly disappointing compared to the playable Victory Medals from the last 2 formats in the Pokemon TCG as well as the playable Tropical Beach from Worlds 2011.

* Cutting playable cards from each set - Okay ever since the Diamond/Pearl and Platinum sets PUSA has been cutting specific playable cards by delaying them to be released in the next upcoming set. I find this to be very annoying but I suppose it works best for the TCG itself for Rotation format reasons so I suppose it isn't too bad I guess. Instead of getting cards from the Japanese set Psycho Drive/Hail Blizzard in Noble Victories we are basically getting everything that was cut from the Red Collection in the set instead leaving us with not much to work with. Heck there's more playable cards in Psycho Drive/Hail Blizzard compared to Red Collection it's not even funny.

If Pokemon can fix these problems I'm sure the game will get better in the longrun. I can't say the same for Yu-Gi-Oh!'s problems though...
 
Catcher is not rigged because (1) it is just a reprinted Gust of Wind and (2) many of the big attackers - Reshiram, Zekrom, later Mewtwo EX won't need it anyways. Besides, knocking out weak guys ensure that your opponent's stronger guys get to live one more turn. I see it more as a tactical weapon to deny your opponent a powering-up Pokemon.

Pokemon decks are limited right now, but that is simply because of the lack of sets available. Once there are more sets, there will be new archetype decks. I, for one, am bearish on Gothitelle (b/c of spread and later Mewtwo EX) and on ZPST (S will be rotated out next year and Z would have trouble OHKO'ing EXs). I think Reshiphlosion will continue to do well because it is easy to build and is very logical.
 
darth_vader said:
Catcher is not rigged because (1) it is just a reprinted Gust of Wind and (2) many of the big attackers - Reshiram, Zekrom, later Mewtwo EX won't need it anyways. Besides, knocking out weak guys ensure that your opponent's stronger guys get to live one more turn. I see it more as a tactical weapon to deny your opponent a powering-up Pokemon.
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After the discussion I was in with baby mario regarding this you're right.

Pokemon decks are limited right now, but that is simply because of the lack of sets available. Once there are more sets, there will be new archetype decks. I, for one, am bearish on Gothitelle (b/c of spread and later Mewtwo EX) and on ZPST (S will be rotated out next year and Z would have trouble OHKO'ing EXs). I think Reshiphlosion will continue to do well because it is easy to build and is very logical.
Click to expand...

Yeah, however I think Noble Victories has opened new doors for all kinds of decks but yeah it will get better when the ex Pokemon are released in English. Some say they are a bit overpowered in terms of HP but they still have x2 Weakness and you still get 2 prizes for KO'ing them so really there's not much to worry about regarding ex Pokemon returning.
 
hunter994x said:
Then explain how each year, at least U.S. player made it into the final 4 in Worlds for at least the last 5 years when Yugioh hasn't.
Posted with Mobile style...
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The ratio of US players to Forgien players in Pokemon at Worlds vs the ratio of US Players to Forgien in yugioh at Worlds

---------- Post added 11/05/2011 at 08:35 AM ----------

On top of this, yugioh hasn't? Adam Corn Topped 4, I also know of the Gladiator Beast Guy that made top 4 a few years back. These are only the ones I know.

---------- Post added 11/05/2011 at 08:36 AM ----------
Regis_Neo said:
Can't tell if trolling or not...random new account created to post specifically to some allegation on a Pokemon tcg forum about an off topic YGO thread he heard about from Facebook...yeah right...
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's Austin or not but if thats what he calls Trolling...

---------- Post added 11/05/2011 at 08:38 AM ----------
Crinus said:
I thought the same thing also Regis.

But if by chance it really was Austin Kulman, my hunch would be right that he was a cheater in yugioh based just off of that reply.

Why you ask?

Because Roy St Clair and Arthur P. who ended up both on the player ban list, had very similar things to say on the forums when both were called out on it.

saying it was all luck.

For the record over the years, I was the one who was calling them out on it, I think most people knew Roy St Clair cheated anyway.
I am still on the verge of getting something done with Steven Hills and George Stevens.

They list a Steven L. H. 0100411462 on the player ban site, I dont know if that is Steven Hills or not.

I doubt Nationals is averaging 1000+ players when you need to qualify for it at a Regional or you are high ranked, not sure the rank if they even invite players to nationals for ranks, they use to for worlds.

But Roy St Clairs and Arthur P. luck was marking cards and deck stacking.
Click to expand...

So do you think anybody does well in yugioh that doesn't cheat or get lucky?

---------- Post added 11/05/2011 at 08:39 AM ----------
Poke Trainer J said:
You really want me to compare Yu-Gi-Oh! with Pokemon? Well I'll try to be as specific as I can here. Here it goes, oh and to whoever said that "Yu-Gi-Oh! has the Superior Card Game and Pokemon has the Superior Franchise" you need to get a reality check.

Pokemon is BOTH the Better Card Game and Franchise, and yet despite I've already ranted about this on MTGSalvation I guess why not give it a go here on the Gym as well since current YGO! players are still stubborn and ignorant to see the truth about their own TCG. If this still falls on deaf ears then you only have yourself to blame not me. So here's the problems thus far:

* Konami doesn't know how to run Card Games - This is a fact.
Heck former Yu-Gi-Oh! player Rai Kerensky has already proven this on Salvation. I was over there reading what he posted so that's how I know.

* Despite being a fun game, it's VERY headache inducing - You'd have a lot less stress playing Magic and/or Pokemon which in this economy are MUCH better investments. Yu-Gi-Oh! costs alot of money to play as much as the amount of time you invest in it. You're spending MUCH MUCH less when playing Pokemon at the very least while Magic is catching up to Yu-Gi-Oh! in price tournament wise.

* The attitude of alot of players in Yu-Gi-Oh! are really negative and only
certain themes are supported while some themes get 5 cards for their entire theme (Iron Chain) and then some themes are oversupported. Never has there been a TCG that has the most theft and stealing involved than Yu-Gi-Oh!, over the years the game itself drew a bunch of scummy people into the game like at a Yu-Gi-Oh! Regional where the playerbase is an odd mix of regular people and gangsters.

* Power Creep in Yu-Gi-Oh! is constantly out of hand - And the ban list played far too much of a role. Also Synchro Monsters were a huge mistake in general cause they essientally acted as a toolbox of powerhouse cards to trump everything else on the field. As more Synchro's were released along with easier methods were gained for summoning them it pretty much became a requirement to run them or lose unless you played Lightsworn which is like Dredge in Magic.

* Yu-Gi-Oh! is more luck based but not in a fun way - Where a dice roll to determine who went first decided the winner of the game because the player going second didn't get an extra draw or anything. The opening player just wasn't allowed to attack. Yu-Gi-Oh! works where Trap cards have to be set for a turn before you can activate them, so the opening player (whoever was going first) had a huge advantage in being able to set his/her first.

Topdecking a single card could win you the game automatically, even when having a terrible field. You also take into consideration why Yu-Gi-Oh! does not use mulligans to get better starting hands when every other TCG/CCG does. Another problem with Yu-Gi-Oh! is this:

* The game itself was not constructed that well - Leading to some very weird rulings (a.k.a. because Konami says so) there are some really screwed up interactions between cards that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place. For example, look up Brain Golem versus DNA Surgery. Heck I remember the Legendary Fisherman Ruling with Legendary Sea I believe it was WAY back around 2002 some my memory is kind of vague on it.

Now what's the problem with Pokemon currently? Well it's not as bad as Yu-Gi-Oh! but it could be ALOT better. So what are the problems going on with Pokemon currently well let's take a look shall we?

* Black/White 1st Turn Rules - Yeah this has ALOT to do with why the metagame is unbalanced nowadays and at first it seemed like it wasn't as bad as everyone thought it would be. You are still losing tempo advantage to stay even with your opponent so If your opponent goes first that could very well lead you at an unfair disadvantage not as much as Yu-Gi-Oh! though but it could very well be the case however. Depending on the matchup you still have a chance to make a comeback though. So this problem is still up for debate though.

* Power Creep of Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon - I don't know If any of you guys have noticed this however alot of the recent Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon are now trumping Stage 2's to the point where they are attacking for 100+ damage for very low attack costs. It also leads to games ending very quickly unless under Trainer Lock which does infact slow the game down quite a bit however while some Stage 2's like Typhlosion and Magnezone still see a tremendous amount of play there are some that just don't break the mold anymore cause of Type Disadvantage or the threat of Pokemon Catcher from stopping whatever deck is trying to accelerate like Blastoise/Floatzel.

* PUSA and TPCi scaling back on prize support - You might not think this could be a big deal but it can be. I already posted a thread on here regarding the removal of Scholarship programs in the Pokemon TCG as ANY prize support reduction hurts the Pokemon TCG as a whole. Scholarships are a HUGE reason why parents spend time and money to build decks for their kids and by getting rid of that draw you are also hurting a small portion of the games' playerbase being mostly kids in the Junior and Seniors Divisions.

Another problem with the prize support in Pokemon recently is it seems like PUSA and TPCi are trying to do too many things at once instead of taking their time while also listening to their playerbase as well. The "We'll work on it as we go along" mentality can only go for so long and you start to wonder about the people running the TCG and If they are doing a good enough job offering good enough support to their playerbase. I'm glad they are bringing back Gym Badges for Pokemon League but the Promos for Battle Roads this year are just horribly disappointing compared to the playable Victory Medals from the last 2 formats in the Pokemon TCG as well as the playable Tropical Beach from Worlds 2011.

* Cutting playable cards from each set - Okay ever since the Diamond/Pearl and Platinum sets PUSA has been cutting specific playable cards by delaying them to be released in the next upcoming set. I find this to be very annoying but I suppose it works best for the TCG itself for Rotation format reasons so I suppose it isn't too bad I guess. Instead of getting cards from the Japanese set Psycho Drive/Hail Blizzard in Noble Victories we are basically getting everything that was cut from the Red Collection in the set instead leaving us with not much to work with. Heck there's more playable cards in Psycho Drive/Hail Blizzard compared to Red Collection it's not even funny.

If Pokemon can fix these problems I'm sure the game will get better in the longrun. I can't say the same for Yu-Gi-Oh!'s problems though...
Click to expand...

Many of your arugments are the same for both games ???
 
Jaegar - their is, luck carries you so far in yugioh, thats where I really begin to shut the door on some players when they become TOO successful in a game where luck puts a strangle hold on someone actually becoming TOO successful without cheating, as what Austin Kulman has done along with Roy St Clair and Austin P which is what those guys I mentioned on ban list were becoming and were doing, Shall I mention Austin Kulman when he stepped into worlds went like 1-4? Luck is too much a factor in yugioh for a guy to win nationals at 11, win a few Shonen Jump tourneys which is near the level of Nationals competition, its a red flag IMO.


Their is more behind this though.
 
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@Jaeger: I wasn't aware of them. I know Corn won Nationals in 2007 but I never heard about him in Worlds. I am aware though that no YGO player from the U.S. player have won worlds(unless that changed too)

One question though, how do you think YGO would do if they divided their tournaments like Pokemon does(Junior division, Senior Divisions, Masters divisions) though it wouldn't be exactly the same if they did.
Posted with Mobile style...

EDIT: My bad for not looking this up. Between 2003-2011, 6 players from the U.S. that were in the top 4 in worlds with one as the runner up in 2010. However, St. Clair was one of those 6(3rd place in 2009). YGO in the U.S. has gotten a little better but if YGO wants to reach its full pontential, Konami needs to actually know what they're doing.
 
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Crinus: Pooka has ended up Top 8, Top 16, 1st, 3rd and 2nd at Nationals but has never made it past the top 16 at Worlds. Clearly this is proof he cheats right?


Hunter: They do have "Dragon Duels" which is for 13 and under. I think the game has some good game maganics such as "making reads" and knowing when to push and when not to" The thing holding the game back expecially for younger players is the sheer cost of the game and a poor ban list.
 
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