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Author
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Topic: Entei/Magcargo - impurity (SBZ)
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bulbasnore
Member # 703
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posted February 17, 2003 08:42 AM
For all my excitement about SBZ (15+ back in the big event!), I was overlate in replacing my Rapid Spikes deck with something more effective. Having little in the way of Aquapolis (my 8 PKMN Fan Club, 4Town Volunteers order arrived the day before SBZ as 8 juggler/4 forest guardian!) -- I decided to play-test a variant of Bomeister & Freddy Ks 'Purity' Entei/MagCargo.
4 Slug (Magma Ring)
4 Mag
4 Entei
+2 Suicune (Legendary Body)
+1 Cleffa
4 Copycat
4 Elm
4 Trader
4 Double Gust
4 Scoop Up
2 Capsule
23 Fire
I won't give a tourney report here, but let me summarize. This deck won 3 out of 5 outright losing to Kingdra/Steelix and Kabulix. Now, that isn't the point of this deck help report ('cause that is affected by the quality of the player -- mistakes: 1 -- not taking out the mysterious fossil being tempted by the KO of a Steelix and 2 -- attaching an energy to MagCargo that should have been put on Entei to combo a DG to KO Kingdra), but rather the consistency of the howls & other technical aspects of the deck.
Howl consistency. With 23 fire, I was able to get 4 good howls in this tourney, drawing 1 blank. Mostly 2-3 fire I think.
I only mulliganed once with this number of basics. Can't remember if I was able to pull off the copycat combo.
Scoop up was awesome for saving a prize and putting something active without retreat a depowered 'Cargo. Entei was always available for a howl as needed with this.
Suicune was a great staller against water -- players didn't expect him and usually took a turn or two to figure out they had to go after him, rather than stall. This was a great suggestion from the original post.
Cleffa did help me recover once -- I actually had to pick him up with Capsule and draw him out of a small deck, but it really helped that game. He did hang about as a staller in another game and a double-gust partner in another game. I feel having 1 in the deck is worth it.
Biggest problem was drawing the 'Cargos! I had one game where 2 were in the prizes (prizes 5 & 6 no less) and one was lost early to a howl, so I had to attack with the Enteis, since 'capsule wasn't coming up. Getting Slugma and MagCargo together on the field was the toughest part of this deck. Perhaps pulling a scoop & the Cleffa for PKMN Fan Club would help (not sure if you want TWO Slugs out in every situation though). Scoop was a bit surplus.
Definitely replacing Capsule with Town Volunteers would be good.
Well, I was really intrigued with the original idea posted back in December. There are some observations on a variant.
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Pokemon TCG is a game for all ages.
6th Place June 2002 WCSC Professor Draft
6th Place July 2003 Comic Con Fan Appreciation Tourney
From: Where you play a kid's game and never T8 in it! | Registered: Feb 2001
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Freddy K
Member # 24380
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posted February 17, 2003 09:29 AM
Bulbasnore - Gosh this deck is great... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'm surprised to see you _not_ using the 'Combustion' version of Slugma. I always thought that three holo Entei and one non-holo Entei should go in there... Entei NH can of course hit a Murkrow back..
- 4 slug, carg, ent
- 26 fire
- 4 trader, elm, copy, scoop, d gust, 1 capsule
was of course the original. Yep, TV instead of the TCapsule.
Wish Bomie could post... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
~fK
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AIM: TEFr3ddyK
Features writer, Pokémon World Magazine.
GENCON-EUROPE 2003
Professor Championship - 1st
TeamMP Championship - 1st w/(s_b)
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From: Slough, England UK | Registered: May 2001
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted February 17, 2003 09:37 AM
I saw this and missed it...
YEAH combustion slugma... IF you see an army if pichus YOU can knock them out with it...
*Yeah so do I... I tried but been overuled... BUT he goes off the deep end when he does come back =/, he knows...*
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SHUT UP & DO something about it
From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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Articjedi
Member # 342
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posted February 17, 2003 11:36 PM
I'd keep one revelation slugma, just to knock out focus bands.
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Thank you WOTC for a wonderful pokemon journey.
From: Seattle, Washington | Registered: Feb 2001
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PokeNinja
Member
Member # 125068
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posted February 18, 2003 02:23 PM
Do you think this deck could take down a Light DRagonite deck??? I've never tried this deck type and been searching for something that can compete and defeat a deck of that type. So fare this is one of the best I've seen for that. Speed seems a little to slow though, what are your thoughts?
Registered: Feb 2003
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The true lord of the pits
Member
Member # 116764
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posted February 18, 2003 02:54 PM
I know how you feel. While 1 extra round at our tournament helped me get into the T8 (Or not, considering I lost mt 6th game o_O), I lost to a Kingdra deck and a Kabulix. Speaking of that event, I should change my sig around, considering a couple really good quotes.
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"The Cabal is here, and everywhere."
The, one, only...
www.imakuni.com
The crazy, teen-oriented: www.pojo.com
Website Reborn!
www.bulbagarden.com
Also, be sure to check out our super-cool trade forum!
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=67
From: TEXAS... Giddy up! | Registered: Nov 2002
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PokeNinja
Member
Member # 125068
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posted February 18, 2003 04:49 PM
What deck were you useing The true lord of the pits? A Enti/Cargo?
[ February 18, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: PokeNinja ]
Registered: Feb 2003
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Khapoera
Member
Member # 3449
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posted February 18, 2003 04:59 PM
Another thing you might want to try out is the subtraction of 1 Entei and 1 Scoop Up for 2 more Fire. Or just the subtraction of Scoop Up for more Fire. However, you won't exactly miss the 4th Entei because with 4 Pokémon Traders, so much card drawing, 1 little Entei shouldn't be too much harm.
Little tweaks with this deck would make it that much better. I'm trying something like this with Arcanine/Entei.
-~Khap
[ February 18, 2003, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Khapoera ]
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Risky situations always reveal their worst consequences first. Be the first to allow everyone to see the benefits.
From: New Jersey | Mind: Corrupt | Registered: Mar 2001
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bulbasnore
Member # 703
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posted February 18, 2003 07:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Khapoera:
Another thing you might want to try out is the subtraction of 1 Entei and 1 Scoop Up for 2 more Fire. ...Little tweaks with this deck would make it that much better. I'm trying something like this with Arcanine/Entei.
Actually, that might be good (at least -1 Entei) because, well, I didn't MULLIGAN enough to use the Copycat combo!
![[Dubious]](graemlins/dubious.gif) You say?
That's right. In this little trial, howls got me what I needed 4/5 of the time. What I couldn't get were the Slugma & MagCargo together despte 4 trader. What I was hoping was to MUL-MUL-&-MUL-again so that I could copycat about 10 cards turn 1 or 2. I only mulliganed 1x in 5 matches! It seemed I always had several Entei in hand and never used up all my scoops, so -1 Entei & -1 Scoop/+2 Fire could be good. +2 Pokémon fan club is looking good to me, too.
However, extensive playtesting this was not. Let us know how your deck makes out.
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Pokemon TCG is a game for all ages.
6th Place June 2002 WCSC Professor Draft
6th Place July 2003 Comic Con Fan Appreciation Tourney
From: Where you play a kid's game and never T8 in it! | Registered: Feb 2001
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DARK_PIDGEOT
Member # 31206
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posted February 18, 2003 09:19 PM
4 Slug (2Magma Ring/2combustion)
4 Mag ![[bow]](graemlins/bow.gif)
3 Entei
3 Cleffa
2 Copycat
4 Elm
4 Trader
3 Double Gust
3 Scoop Up
2 Capsule
2 juggler (is a beast with this deck and all your nrg)
3 focus band (a must need with all the water going around)
23 Fire
this deck may look a little iffy but it works. the 2/2 slug combo works very well especially when you take a focus band off then they kill your cargo you'll love that 10 damage attack. i'm going to tell you something that you people over look this deck is only good for about the first 5-6 turns after you get a cargo going(unless you get mad drawing or they are stuck which is why this deck wins cause they get stuck), then it comes to a screeching halt, especially with all the water going around and also that's why you need focus band, but with that in mind you only need 3 entei especially with all the draw power. the jugglers well help i hate only copycating for less than five but now you have something to use all that extra nrg in your hand which this deck does a lot. and as for suicune i would rather have the extra cleffas to hid behind while you build up and for draw.
well those are my fixs and don't knock this version until you try it, please! ![[teach]](graemlins/teach.gif)
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A deck is only as good as its trainers in it. -DARK_PIDGEOT
One of the founding members of TEAM BANDA_DE_FOCO.
From: WEST CARROLLTON, OHIO, UNITED STATES | Registered: Jul 2001
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Freddy K
Member # 24380
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posted February 18, 2003 11:25 PM
The idea behind Purity was to bring about KOs as quickly as possible. That meant maximising on F energy, making sure Mag was out turn 2 and Lava Flowing away continuously.
I have to defend the deck on Bomie's behalf. What struck me about the deck in the first place was its simplicity and the fact that it breaks all the rules.
That means.
- No Cleffa.
- Max out on Slugma Combustion, it can take out Babies on turn 2 if you don't have any drawing whatsoever of Magcargo.
- Max Scoop Up - it can help protect damaged Magcargos, it can give you a Slugma in hand if you also have an Entei ready to charge up, it can remove lone Enteis from the active position, and it can help you Howl continuously.
- Juggler? This will make you deck out, what do you do with all those
![[Red Mana]](graemlins/red_mana.gif) energy in your hand? - This deck does not need Focus Band, they're a waste with Scoop-up.
- 3 DBG? no way, this deck wins when you take out the opponent's Basics/Stage 1 Pokémon at the start.
- 26 Energy is what you need.
Give the opponent time, and they win. Purity makes you think long and hard about your own deck construction skills. That's what impressed me the most. Mad props for Bomie for the idea.
More feedback most welcome. I'm thinking long and hard about playing this for a while...
~fK
[ February 18, 2003, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Freddy K ]
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AIM: TEFr3ddyK
Features writer, Pokémon World Magazine.
GENCON-EUROPE 2003
Professor Championship - 1st
TeamMP Championship - 1st w/(s_b)
Visit Team UK!
"how can two bright red fleece Professor jackets be lost in an office? Can they be stuffed in a drawer? Under a stapler? In-between a stack of folders? Or on top of a pot plant?"
From: Slough, England UK | Registered: May 2001
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Freddy K
Member # 24380
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posted February 18, 2003 11:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PokeNinja:
Do you think this deck could take down a Light DRagonite deck??? I've never tried this deck type and been searching for something that can compete and defeat a deck of that type. So fare this is one of the best I've seen for that. Speed seems a little to slow though, what are your thoughts?
Pokéninja Dragonite players will stare at their hand and wonder why they chose to play such a deck. Magcargo can win hands down with its OHKO capacity against a Dragonite, that takes three-fours turns to set up. The better players will target the basics before they have time to evolve.
Careful use of Town Volunteers and ScoopUp means that you can recycle your Magcargos that way. Trader breaks the deck in that fashion.
-fK
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AIM: TEFr3ddyK
Features writer, Pokémon World Magazine.
GENCON-EUROPE 2003
Professor Championship - 1st
TeamMP Championship - 1st w/(s_b)
Visit Team UK!
"how can two bright red fleece Professor jackets be lost in an office? Can they be stuffed in a drawer? Under a stapler? In-between a stack of folders? Or on top of a pot plant?"
From: Slough, England UK | Registered: May 2001
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Freddy K
Member # 24380
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posted February 18, 2003 11:36 PM
Sorry, last post for this morning - good comment Dark_Pidgeot - but NH Entei will ensure that your Magcargos aren't vunerable to DBGing water decks, and if you allow Gatr to develop w/out taking out its previous evolutions then frankly the Magcargo player deserves to lose ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) j/k seriously though if someone sees their opponent bench a Horsea or Totodile and still doesn't know what's coming, well... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
~fK
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AIM: TEFr3ddyK
Features writer, Pokémon World Magazine.
GENCON-EUROPE 2003
Professor Championship - 1st
TeamMP Championship - 1st w/(s_b)
Visit Team UK!
"how can two bright red fleece Professor jackets be lost in an office? Can they be stuffed in a drawer? Under a stapler? In-between a stack of folders? Or on top of a pot plant?"
From: Slough, England UK | Registered: May 2001
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DARK_PIDGEOT
Member # 31206
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posted February 18, 2003 11:52 PM
believe me freddy k, 2 jugglers will not deck you and how many times have you howled only to get 1 fire nrg, when you juggler that means you can thin out your trainers and have more nrg for the howl. and with electabuzzs going around the suicune is just bait. i can see 2 maybe 3 ko's but its is hard to keep up the consistancy in a cargo deck because all it takes is that one howl to get you 1 nrg and dump a lot of good trainers. and focus bands will allow you one more turn to set up, which in a cargo deck that is hugely important.
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A deck is only as good as its trainers in it. -DARK_PIDGEOT
One of the founding members of TEAM BANDA_DE_FOCO.
From: WEST CARROLLTON, OHIO, UNITED STATES | Registered: Jul 2001
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Khapoera
Member
Member # 3449
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posted February 19, 2003 05:07 AM
Whoa, Freddy K, so you're saying that without Focus Bands, you can Scoop Up and bring up another Magcargo? Or just play the Slugma down after and play another Entei after TVing the Fire Energy back in?
-~Khap
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Risky situations always reveal their worst consequences first. Be the first to allow everyone to see the benefits.
From: New Jersey | Mind: Corrupt | Registered: Mar 2001
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PokeNinja
Member
Member # 125068
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posted February 19, 2003 03:36 PM
Finally a deck that can defeat a Light Dragonite deck ![[Bounce]](graemlins/jump.gif) Yes a Light dRagonite deck I like, but in my opionion it is being overused and abused because of that. Well I guess it's time for me to try this deck type out. Thanks guys. ![[pileson]](graemlins/pileon.gif)
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You think your pritty hot don't you? Well you just wait, my day will come and when it does I will be LEGENDARY!!!
Registered: Feb 2003
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PokeNinja
Member
Member # 125068
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posted February 19, 2003 07:02 PM
Well in that case that's really cool!
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bulbasnore
Member # 703
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posted February 20, 2003 07:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy K:
if someone sees their opponent bench a Horsea or Totodile and still doesn't know what's coming, well...
~fK
Well, the problem is, the other player is equipped to stall and purity, even likely impurity with its 1 cleffa, is not.
While I am searching and searching for that DG water player just comes fwd with his prevos & 1 or 2 hit KOs whatever my active is. No NEED for water player to DG, 'cause I have no baby out, just a water weak fire PKMN. I on the other hand have to wait for DG because of water player having baby active and benched.
I'd like to give this another try...maybe even purity. I did make one mistake by not taking out the MFossil with a DG. Kabutops needs only 1 heads to KO Cargo. However, Suicune and Cleffa kept me alive for a long time against Kingdra while I waited on DGs and the meeting of Slugma & MagCargo. However, impurity did not seem to want for a good howl with _only_ 23 energy.
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Pokemon TCG is a game for all ages.
6th Place June 2002 WCSC Professor Draft
6th Place July 2003 Comic Con Fan Appreciation Tourney
From: Where you play a kid's game and never T8 in it! | Registered: Feb 2001
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PokeNinja
Member
Member # 125068
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posted February 20, 2003 01:58 PM
Ya I see how it's a problem. I'll try to help think of a sulution, if I can X_x.
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You think your pritty hot don't you? Well you just wait, my day will come and when it does I will be LEGENDARY!!!
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Freddy K
Member # 24380
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posted February 21, 2003 05:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Khapoera:
Whoa, Freddy K, so you're saying that without Focus Bands, you can Scoop Up and bring up another Magcargo? Or just play the Slugma down after and play another Entei after TVing the Fire Energy back in?
-~Khap
Pretty much, the objective for Purity was to clear everything out and get Magcargo working, every time, Turn 2-3. Most players can't handle such force and while they're struggling to take on your active Cargo you should be powering up another one. Scoop Up can help with healing, or picking up DBGed Fire.
I missed a slot in Purity, it should read:
- 4 slug(combustion), carg, entei(howl)
- 26 fire
- 4 trader, elm, copy, scoop, d gust, 2 Time Volunteers
Can anyone fail consistently to get out Cargo turn 2/3 with it? Even if worse comes to worse, power the Entei - it does 60 turn 2, Scoop it up, Howl for Slugma and here we go again... =)
It's not my idea though, mad props to Bomie as always. Cleffa is there for you to set up in many cases but here, it's better _just_ to put in what you need instead. And Water will take you down anyway, so it's better to give them a good fight rather than get taken down slowly. Case in q: Kabutops with its OHKO. But you really want a deck that wins 90%+ of the time, and Water sees itself struggle against Grass anyway.
Whenever it doesn't work for me, it's because the deck is too difficult for me to manipulate. It's made me a better player to try it out, and it's great as it bends all conventional rules about decks i.e. Cleffas, Focus Bands, stalling, healing etc. It just does what it's supposed to - hunt, maim, KO.
One more point, in a 25-30min tournament, the speed of winning prizes matter. Normally without time limit, Water will win and Purity does run out of juice - but, 25-30mins pass by v quickly and you should be ahead if not taking 3pts each round anyway.
Me? I'm still trying this out against my regular decks... jury's out. But the deck is solid, no doubt.
All comments made on this post have really made me think about the validity of this deck, thanks & keep them coming.
~fK
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AIM: TEFr3ddyK
Features writer, Pokémon World Magazine.
GENCON-EUROPE 2003
Professor Championship - 1st
TeamMP Championship - 1st w/(s_b)
Visit Team UK!
"how can two bright red fleece Professor jackets be lost in an office? Can they be stuffed in a drawer? Under a stapler? In-between a stack of folders? Or on top of a pot plant?"
From: Slough, England UK | Registered: May 2001
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Khapoera
Member
Member # 3449
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posted February 21, 2003 07:40 PM
No doubt. I've tried this with Arcy/Entei, and it hasn't given me all the speed I need. ;\ I'll post up my results. Also I'll be trying this with Cargo/Entei eventually. I mean it's just so GOOD. ;\
-~Khap
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Risky situations always reveal their worst consequences first. Be the first to allow everyone to see the benefits.
From: New Jersey | Mind: Corrupt | Registered: Mar 2001
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bulbasnore
Member # 703
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posted February 22, 2003 05:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy K:
[QUOTE]All comments made on this post have really made me think about the validity of this deck, thanks & keep them coming.
~fK
Y'know, I'm glad to see this deck getting some more thought & discussion. I've yet to try it out in 'purity'. I've got Kabulix and Kingdra players in-house, so it'll get a shot. Really anxious to hear your results, too. Whatever the outcome, Bomie has provoked us in a really great way to learn more about the game and explore new strategy.
--------------------
Pokemon TCG is a game for all ages.
6th Place June 2002 WCSC Professor Draft
6th Place July 2003 Comic Con Fan Appreciation Tourney
From: Where you play a kid's game and never T8 in it! | Registered: Feb 2001
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted February 22, 2003 06:35 PM
Good Manners was a staple card when Modified was Rocket-On and Magcargo saw some play.
At Origins I saw a deck being played like this against the dominant Feraligatr at the time. The construction of the deck was simple, just like the original Purity. It went something like this (remember this is pre-Expedition):
4 Slugma
4 Magcargo
4 Entei
4 Good Manners
4 Professor Elm
4 Pokemon Trader
4 Double Gust
4 Scoop Up
2 Time Capsule
26 Fire
Good Manners was a life saver, because you can easily loose your only remaining Slugma/Entei to some Tyrouge when you draw a hand of only Traders/Energies/Gusts/Scoop/Capsule.
Now we do not have Good Manners currently in this Modified we do have Pokemon Fan Club that allows you to draw TWO basics versus ONE with Good Manners. I would really consider adding Pokemon Fan Club in because of the threats of Rogues/Rouges/However you spell it. Possibly something like this:
4 Slugma
4 Magcargo
4 Entei
3 Copycat
4 Professor Elm
4 Pokemon Trader
4 Double Gust
4 Scoop Up
2 Pokemon Fan Club
1 Town Volunteer
26 Fire
-Phil
[ February 22, 2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: GymLeaderPhil ]
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THIS is truly thinking outside of the box!
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From: Where ever the ladies take me | Registered: Feb 2001
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Freddy K
Member # 24380
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posted February 22, 2003 11:18 PM
There may be complications 'Phil as Fan Club benches Enteis straight away. Unlike Manners, or my personal fav, DUAL BALL.
Flip-tastic! ![[cloud9]](graemlins/cloud9.gif)
~fK
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AIM: TEFr3ddyK
Features writer, Pokémon World Magazine.
GENCON-EUROPE 2003
Professor Championship - 1st
TeamMP Championship - 1st w/(s_b)
Visit Team UK!
"how can two bright red fleece Professor jackets be lost in an office? Can they be stuffed in a drawer? Under a stapler? In-between a stack of folders? Or on top of a pot plant?"
From: Slough, England UK | Registered: May 2001
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