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Author
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Topic: is pokemon startintg to turn into a magic base??
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FireFighter09
Member # 3040
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posted July 11, 2002 06:46 PM
Before i wirte this i need to say the following: What i say is a sum up of what Lugia909 said to me back at origins and my comments on a topic that concerns me by the day. I target no one with this and i send this out not trying to go after anything in pokemon.
I was at the origins professor challenge and i had the privliage of meeting Lugia909. He talked to me about a serious topic in pokemon that has been more rampant for a while. He had words and statements that are so uncensored that saying them here would get me thrown off wizpog. He basicvally told me the gamne has turned more into a game where arrogance has been more visable and fun has diminishee. He told me that there is more and more adapting of players who are getting to hardcore and arrogant and noone is having fun in this game anymore. Many players are having fun but there are alot that are arrogant and too hardcore and its bleeding into more players and its slowly taking the fun out of the game. Its seen more ands more that people are turning hardcore and forgetting taht pokemon is about having fun. He was right. The more i look at it the next day i can see how many parts of pokemon has breed hardcore players. MTM really tried to slow it down but it keeps going. I wonder why is the game turning into an game where hardcore players are flowing in it and arrogance is brewing?? If anyone has comments on this please place them here.
Sadley as i said bye to Lugia909n he told me due to the ceratin problems in pokemon he will not return to the game because he is getting sick of it. I hope his attitude changes as the game goes on.
[ July 11, 2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: FireFighter09 ]
From: Pittsburgh,pa 15212 | Registered: Mar 2001
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted July 11, 2002 06:55 PM
Billionare Baseball players who will strike
Star basketball players charged for aggravated assault
Musicians charged for well unlawful relations with minors
Little league parents taken to court for their on court and off court antics & support of their child
CEO's and executives that milk their company get GREAT severance packages when fired before the company files for bankruptcy OR sell stock before EVERYONE else gets a chance of ridding bum stock.
It just a symptom of what goes around us.
BUT there was a truce called, BUT it is far from over... for some of us it is about fun, FOR others it is about the BRAGGING rights (which i can understand)... THERE were some very harsh words slung around, the damage for some may be irreparable. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
You should check out some websites @_@ the internet provides me with MORE information than I care to know about some people... I liked it when skeletons were kept in closets...
I wish some teens would be BETTER role models than some OF US ADULTS who do not deserve that title.
*hopes this post is kept a positive debate, some who would wish to comment will not be able to because they cannot post here... no naming names or examples or...
[ July 11, 2002, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: IPGeek21 ]
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SHUT UP & DO something about it
From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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CJ-Mich
Member # 835
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posted July 11, 2002 08:24 PM
No! At least not by my standards. We only went to Origins for the Prof event on Saturday and I had a great time. I played against some great sports and I played against some not so great, but they didn't ruin MY day.
After seeing all the effort the MT's and PES and volunteers (DGL), etc put into that weekend, I say I'm far from "sick of it".
I think I even noticed a few teens that seemed to have grown up a bit. I believe that the good attitiudes in this game do rub off even if it's not aparent at the moment.
That's too bad about Lugia909. I expect that Worlds will be by far the best event to date. Arrogance an all. I still see way too many people that care about the spirit and what this game has given to many of us to cast it aside now. I can only hope WOTC has the ability to keep this thing going for us (with our help of course).
Don't let a few bad apples keep you from seeing what's still amazing about this game and what it can do to bring friends together and the POSITIVE influence it can have.
I can understand why some have opted to give up the game after some recent incidents, but I am certainly not there yet.
From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2001
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DaytonGymLeader
Member # 2615
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posted July 11, 2002 08:51 PM
CJ, thanks again for your support. After running myself into the ground for 4 days, I am no where NEAR ready to leave this game for a few reasons:
1. I have too much invested:
Time
Money
Friendships
Quality Time With Family
(The first two are not as important as the last two)
2. I am having way too much fun
3. I am having way too much fun
4. I am having way too much fun
5. I am having way too much fun
6. I'm not going to let a few ill-tempered malcontents sour the pot for me.
I think it's our job as Professors and stewards of this game to "clean up our own house" as it were. We've done that. We need to keep the game fun.
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DaytonGymLeader
Books-A-Million 307
Dayton, Ohio
[email protected]
Founding Member of Team Banda de Foco
2002 Professor Championship Head Judge
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2003 Dayton, OH SBZ Head Judge
2003 Professor Championships Judge
2003 Team Championships Judge
From: Dayton, Ohio, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted July 11, 2002 08:55 PM
Is fun important to me?
Is fun important to me?
Yeah, I'd say so (that's me on the left, with Josh Hollenbach (EmperorTopazJosh) next to me). This was taken at my league's recent stuffed animal day.
It's always been m philosiphy, that if you're not in it to have fun, why bother. Of course, there's nothing wrong with striving to be the best, as long as you don't take yourself too seriously.
[ July 11, 2002, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: yoshi1001 ]
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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lance313
Member # 1891
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posted July 11, 2002 09:07 PM
As long as I have the kids at my league to keep me tethered to what's 'real', the fun won't leave. The only place I see stuff becoming too serious is on the boards, not at leagues or most events. True, I have seen some getting too serious at the last stadium, but for the most part not. Of course, I could 'leave' the GAME and still be involved. I don't necessarily have to play to enjoy. Teaching, coaching, helping, explaining, judging, running events, etc., and just plain watching the kids can actually satisfy. The ones that are consumed and require bragging rights for their personal validation are just plain sad, and need to get a life. Pokémon is a GAME, not the real world. And those that keep that perspective are the ones that will keep the game fun and keep it going. Not the other 'losers' in life.
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Proud member/founder of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001
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Lugia909
Member # 1997
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posted July 11, 2002 09:15 PM
Well, not quite correct. What I said was that I was considering halting participation in the larger events. And there's reasons for that...
I can have a blast at League...did so this evening, in fact. And I can have fun at local sanctioned play when I can get to it. I can even enjoy myself possibly at a Gym, doing the judging gig. Clearly, there's loads to do w/o leaving the game altogether.
The problems start when you get into the 'high end'...and it's not from the competition or even from the people running xerox decks. The problem is that in the past year, these things have started to take on the feel of a 'behavioral sink', a situation where there is a set of people who feel that they have carte blanche to act as difficult as they wish. And this slops into the online community with an ever-increasing frequency, it seems. Trying to 'fix' it doesn't work. Trying to officiate it in various ways also doesn't work. And the 'truce' of this past weekend was in words only, as I know full-well a lot of what was assumed that wouldn't get back to me. It did, of course. To say nothing of A Certain Person and his crew's efforts to disrupt three rounds of a six-round sanctioned event I was in on Friday. To me, when it reaches the point where this set of individuals cannot even curb their behavior when it's OBVIOUS that rules are being violated by their actions...well, everything goes out the window at that point. You can't officiate that level of arrogance and malice short of hauling people off in cuffs.
Personally, I think this is very, very sad. I can't think of any excuse for such behavior. It's pathetic. And it's got a potential for something a lot worse...
After talking w/ FF09, much later on Sunday, I sat down to a few hours of drinking, smoking, and chatting with a couple of our MTs, one of the main DCI officials, and a couple of other WotC people. There's a good chunk of what I was told that evening that I'm more or less sworn not to repeat...very NDA-ish stuff. But very scary stuff, also.
We could lose this game.
We could lose this game in less than a year's time.
We could lose this game over the image and credibility damage that 'certain people' are insisting on perpetrating as of late.
This is no joke. Nor is it some sort of 'lie', which I supposedly do all the time here on WizPoG. This is the ugly truth.
There is a point coming up at which The Pokemon Company has say-so over whether or not WotC continues to produce this game. Now, we all remember TPC. TPC doesn't like the overly-competitive nature the game has taken on. They don't like their brand getting dragged thru anything that tarnishes its wholesome image. TPC _especially_ doesn't seem to care much for the 15+ division. And given that, I think anyone reading this who has three braincells to rub together can surmise what would happen if TPC got an eyeful of certain of what's going on in the name of some misguided 'Poke-Revolution' in other parts of the net. Hell, we can't even be sure that they haven't _already_.
TPC could take this game away from WotC.
Should that happen, all of this will go away. OP, tourneys, the whole shebang. All up in a big ol' puff of smoke. Might take a few months en toto to happen, but it'd happen. How? Sorry, gang...NDA-land on that one. But I know how, and I know it'd work 100%.
Now...I think the time is now to really start asking the hard questions about what we want as a face that we show the world. This sectarian warfare has to either come to a screeching HALT...or the people involved should leave. Forcibly, if necessary. I do not think that we, as a community of players who DO NOT want this game to tank, should further tolerate the actions of a minority in the game who seem insistant on using the Pokemon TCG as a sounding-board for their dysfunctionality and teen angst issues. To do so at this point is to invite TPC to come in and clean house, sweeping out ALL players...good and bad.
I think certain actions at Origins proved that this 'truce' is a sham. Empty words. So a truce...something amicable...is likely not the way to go as long as the less-disciplined side of this situation continues to aim this game down a potentially-destructive path. Those of us who want this to continue need to take a more proactive approach to matters. What this should entail...I don't know. I don't have a clue, because the likely responses needed are going to be varied and certainly more than one person can come up with.
But we have perhaps only 10 months, if that. We have managed to do a lot in less time before. We need to do a lot now.
Otherwise, nothing we do now will matter.
From: Greater Metropolitan Rankin, IL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted July 11, 2002 09:44 PM
This game dies over my dead body. Something I've told my self very often. I know it seems oxmoronic-serious fun, but that's how I feel.
Course of action? I don't know. I'll think of something. I usually do.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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SD_PokeMom
Member # 97
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posted July 11, 2002 10:52 PM
*takes off the "moderator" hat temporarily*
For anyone who thinks Lugia is "lying"...well, here is what I heard this week from my League host store's owner, who gets his information from the comic/game retailer magazines/newspapers:
The license Wizards has with TPC, for rights to the Pokémon TCG, is up for renewal early next year. Of course, WotC is going to fight very, very hard to retain it...but it isn't just their decision; ultimately, it is up to the powers that be at TPC. What do you think would happen, if another company got the rights to the Pokémon TCG away from Wizards?
First of all: that new company would have to start up it's own Organized Play (leagues, tournaments, rankings, etc.), from scratch. Do you think your DCI rating/ranking would "travel" with you to that new OP? Ummm, NO...because the DCI is part of Wizards of the Coast, and they aren't going to just hand over their player database to anyone. So: new company, new OP...new ranking system--meaning, everyone starts from a ZERO ranking. Scared yet?
Don't believe me? Does anyone remember when the Legend of the Five Rings TCG was desanctioned by DCI? You think Decipher's OP is still running Star Wars TCG? And what do you think happened to the ranking system used in that game? The same thing would happen here!
The other things my store owner said? Leagues would end. Prices of cards would drop, as distributors dump their stocks to get rid of them. And these forums would certainly go away. All of this is common knowledge among people in the gaming industry, if you read the newsletters and magazines.
THIS is why so many of us are so concerned about the "image" this game has. If TPC sees things it doesn't like and decides Wizards is to "blame" for sullying the image of their brand/intellectual property, WHY would they allow them to renew?
I don't know how much more bluntly we can say it: if the license for the game is lost, Organized Play as we know it--Leagues, DCI, Stadiums, Worlds--will end. Does ANYONE do OP on the scale and breadth that WotC/DCI does? I think not...and if you think it's hard to find a league or tourney NOW, just imagine what it will be like with someone starting Organized Play from scratch, without the 10+ years Wizards and DCI have under their belts!
Think about it, please...I beg you all. WE are the public face of this game. If you love it and want it to continue, then PLEASE look very hard at what you are contributing...or not...to it. We might not be able to determine if it does stay as is...but we sure will be able to determine if it DOESN'T, IMO.
JMHO...
*puts "moderator" hat back on*
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Master Professor/Tournament Organizer/Pokémon League Gym Leader,
Adventure Games and Comics, Poway, CA
Nothing endures in this world. Everything changes according to karma. But, like the ocean, underneath the restless existance of the countless waves there is one boundless stillness that embraces and gives life to all the moving waves. Namuamidabutsu...
From: San Diego, CA --location of WCSTS-2001 and West Stadium Challenge 2002 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Satoshi_Of_Pojo
Member # 58975
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posted July 11, 2002 11:04 PM
Lugia, bravo. Great post, but sadly I don't know how much good it will actually do.
Already people are writing off this valid warning of things to come as mere "tears" and going on with the "revolution" or whatever. Bleh. -_-
However, should WotC keep their license, I'm more worried about what will happen afterwards; once the players in question see how much they can get away with, the effects may be disasterous. X_x
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From: Elsewhere | Registered: Jan 2002
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FireFighter09
Member # 3040
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posted July 11, 2002 11:29 PM
[CHRISBO EDITS - Sorry FF09, but although you didn't actually write out the naughty words, masking them with ****'s is stil CoC violation; please choose your words more carefully. Thanks dude.]
I read over the post so far and Lugia sorry for getting some info wrong.
I undertsand what everyone is saying and since last year i was feared of TPC coming in and doing what they do best. Stripping games of thier rights in the best interest of the games image. Now more then ever we all gotta look at this game and stop acting like [*edit*] and treat the game like it was before. Friendly competition and fun. If we start treating the game like a hardcore atmosphere and magic atmosphere TPC will strip wizards of thier game and destroy everything pokemon worked to build in just under 4 years. Everyone who reads this and you know who you are needs to stop acting like arrogant windbags and over competitive sports and start to going back to having fun. If you want hardcore competition magic is right next door. Ok this is pokemon not magic. The base of the 15+ division was to have FUN!!! If TPC knew we made the division to have real arrogance and competitive sport we would of never gotten the division back in june 2001. I dont get why this game suddenly turned into a base like magic where peiple are not having alot of fun and turning into arrogant over competitive players.
The whole truth is if we dont turn the game around by january its gone and TPC will strip wizards of thier rights. We gotta bring the game back to the way it was. A fun game where competition is out there but its fun competition. I love this game and have been in it for now 2 years and the last thing i need to see if TPC strip wizards of thier rights and turn pokemon into 1/8 of what it was in the past. Its time the poeple who are playing this game and not having fun to take their heads out of ther [*edit*] and look around at what is happenening because if they dont were all gonna lose what we love to play.
[ July 12, 2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Chrisbo ]
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From: Pittsburgh,pa 15212 | Registered: Mar 2001
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nick15
Member # 142
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posted July 12, 2002 01:21 AM
I think we're just letting the L33T get to us. While they're going off on their tangent, the salt-of-the-earth players are leaving because of asit l33t players... and therefore only create more havoc for the others. We used to out number them, and they out number us. WHY?!
Personally I don't think Pokémon players will turn into Magic players. But in my honest opinion, I think there's more to this than mere player behavior:
* Anyone can win. Even egotists. And when egotism and teenage behavior mix, they don't produce the most happiest of emotions. Just slap together a Haymaker and tadah, you're on the road to winning. And because of which, l33t gamers win all their game and don't get the proper dicipline that they'd get by losing.... sadly. Usually a short, blunt object does the proper reallignment of their brains, but violence isn't a viable solution in this situation.
* Honest players leaving. Tired of the l33t? Leaving would not only make the problem worse by creating a thinning breed of players, but is also a pathetic cop out. Deal with it, and better yet, be a MAN (or WOMAN) and stand up against it. How hard could it be? I mean if you're playing Pokey-man, you ought to be able to deal with ridicule from other people.
* Lack of Wizards control on the matter. Many a times bad seeds have come along in the game and created a grease stain so big it still impacts the way we play today. Pity Wizards hasn't issued DCI bannings on THOSE players like they have done with other players in other games (with the exception of one, unnameable fellow). It's my personal and un-moderator-based feeling that TPC untimately won't allow it. Ironic to not cut off the cancerous tissue with a knife, only to let it fester... mostly because the whole knife thing could give the whole shebang a bad image. Bah. Worse, I don't think TPC is doing enough to help the situation much. They don't like l33t players any more than we do, yet as far as I'm aware, they're happy enough just sitting down doing nothin' while the problem get's worth. I swear as if Wizards is justice on a stick, and TPC refuses to let them free. (I understand that there's obviously more to this than I've stated, but that's the easy to sweallow version.) ... Frankly I still feel that, as far off topic as this may seem, a Wizards-made set could pave the way to stability more than anything possible right now.
It's a pity we can't get through to everyone and iron out these details. Obviously we can agree to not being leet players, but that's just about as far as we can take this. What can we do about it? Convince explayers to play again. Conspire against the l33t.
Besides, never in my experience in this game have I had to deal with l33t players. Fortunately too. The last many TCG events I've been to haven't been soured by nasty players. And I certainly hope that none of which could ruin Worlds. ... I'm just having too much fun to leave. And if I was leaving, it wouldn't be because of leet players. No, far from it. It'll most likely be due to TPC doing something mindnumbingly dumb with the game which would ultimately prove that TPC doesn't know how what the heck it's doing. Frankly I applaud Wizards for doing what they can to make this game a hell of a lot more appealing to western players (TPM, Tournament Formats, card bannings,set).
And if anything, the financial perspective of this game could be more than enough for TPC's interests. Money talks.
You know what? I have a fist full of nothin'.
[ July 12, 2002, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: nick15 ]
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From: Dukhovskoknabilebskohatsk, Russia | Registered: Feb 2001
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pikapikapikachu2
Member # 32928
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posted July 12, 2002 03:41 AM
Here's my $0.02:
WE do have to drastically clean up the image we have gottten as a result of certain bad elements in this game. If that means banning players, then by all means go ahead and do it. What occured here in the past few weeks (the impersonations and such) was totally uncalled for and uncooth. what those individuals did put a big scar on this game and brought into light other scars that are out there. The 1337 players are the biggest scar there is. With screen names such as "the choosen one" and other ego inflated names, it shows how evident this problem is.
Players and people in general should be known what positive things they do.
On another post on wizpog, there was a saying. "Ask not what your TCG can do for you, but what you can do for your TCG". Yes, it is a cliche', but it is true. It is better to be famous than to be infamous. Two people pop into mind with the famous/infamous saying. Alfred Nobel is famous. He created the "nobel peace prize" in many areas. What he is not known for is his creation of TNT. He chose to be remembered for something positive, rather than negative. AS an example of infamous, there is a certain madman who ruthlessly ravaged the continent of europe in the late 30's and early 40's. He could have chose to be famous, but he chose infamous.
Maybe Wizards of the Coast should put something back into leagues to cater more to the younger players who will continue to support this game. When year two rolled around, The league kids thought it was cool to earn badges & promo cards. As a gym leader, you can see the glow in a kid's eye when they earned a badge just like ash did. Now you get a dejected look look in their eye when they come to get stamps for their tenth loss in a row. This year, leagues are more orientated to tournaments than anything else. Wizards is causing part of its own problem. With more of a tournament enviroment, the players are getting more competitive and letting tempers and egos flare.
I hope I am rembered a a positive influence.
To help out this game, I do league entirely on my own. I do not receive one cent from anyone to do league. All expesses come out of my pocket. I had to fight to get the supplies from my Toys R Us. I had to defend my leaguers when the store management accussed the kids of stealing and trouble making. I have driven across this country trying to excell in the game and to promote a positive image of this game. One time I drove 1000 miles to chicago to try and get a stadium win for one of my league kids. I went up to chicago and plans for my hotel room got smashed. Luckily there was ff09 and his friend there to let a fellow player crash on the floor for a night. I had a blast up in chicago that weekend. I got to meet some really cool people up there and run into a few old faces. Now i am getting off subject.
I just hope those players who have those l337 attitudes grow up and realize that if they do not shape up, the game that they are so up in arms about might slip right through their fingers. Unlike Nick15, I HAVE had to deal with those kind of players. One one them attended my league for many a session. I dont let it get to me. As a matter fo fact, I am attempting to turn another l337 type player around and getting him to be a positive player towards others.
In response to the stated subject of this thread, I started in magic and switched to Pokemon. I had found that magic was getting too competitive and I decided to try out a game that was as so.
It's late and I rambled enough, my $0.02 turned into $5.
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-Pika Pika Pikachu
TRU 7817 Gym leader 1999-2002
2001 EC & WCSTS Judge (DSL)
2002 Gym Challenge Judge at:
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Houston, TX;
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From: fort worth, tx | Registered: Jul 2001
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted July 12, 2002 04:39 AM
 This is so incredibly sad, and so pointless.
Pokémon is a game. Games are meant for play. Play can sometimes be "serious", but it should still be play.
League kids know this. I just started up a new league. At our first session we had 12 players. Last night we had 18 players for our second session. Several of them said they'd be bringing more players with them next time. That's great, because we have space for 60!
Sure, there are a lot of "rand0ms" in the leagues. They know how to have a good time though. They PLAY, and they have fun. They make new friends. They buy cards, and are the force that keeps the game going for the relatively small number of elite players. Those elites rarely, if ever buy cards, because they win all they need as prizes.
So, who keeps this game alive? That's right: THE "RANDOMS". But are they to be looked down on? Yes, they have less skill than others, but also seem to enjoy themselves more! Their good time is not ruined for months due to a bad flip or a bad draw in that critical match for T8, and they don't whine when things go against them. They literally finance the continuation of the game.
While certain elite players are off sulking, cursing and complaining on some clandestine EZBoard, those "randoms" are at league having a blast! Don't get me wrong: there are many great players who know how to balance serious competition and lighthearted fun.
Which picture would you rather be in...
  ... or  ?
REALLY... think about it!
No matter where you go or what you're doing, as long as there's a large group involved, there will be a few people who are intent on ruining whatever activity is going on. I speak from more than a decade of experience teaching high school. Some people will just choose to be "difficult"... always.
But, people can and do change... but only when they want to. I'm hoping some people come out from behind their monitors...  ...and get the spirit of PLAY back in their game. Find a league and play your "fun deck" for a change. You might actually have a good time!
Remember, this is supposed to be fun... and fun isn't about cutting people down or "raging against the machine". It's about play. Can't we all get back to that?
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"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda
"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC
"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19
From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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Feraligatr14
Member # 31508
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posted July 12, 2002 06:51 AM
Good posts on this subject. I have also seen some of these problems in the game. At times it has been very frustrating, almost to the point of leaving the game. But DaytonGymLeader said it the best...Friendships and Quality time with Family is what keeps me in this game. As I tell my son it is more important to have fun. Don't get me wrong we are both very competitive but not too the point of "win at any cost". It is a shame that a few players have this mentality, even to the point of cheating or trying to intimidate their opponents. Unfortunately I don't know what Wizards can do other than banning them from the game. There will be those few players that just don't see "The Big Picture" and understand what the game is about (fun, friendships, winning, & losing, etc...not just winning).
As IPGeek21 points out our environment is not like it used to be. As a result it makes it even more important now that we as Professors set the example for our younger players (especially for those "L33T" players).
Like yoshi1001 I also am not willing to let this game go away. I am committed to do everything I can to keep this game alive. I have, at times, thought this would happen especially in our area where player participation has dropped since last year. But we still have players coming back (some from 1-2 years ago) and new ones starting. I have seen our league this year, at our new location, increase in players. These players are just like LizardOTC describes. They love playing the game and have a lot fun. Sure it is competitive for some but we also joke with each other, help each other, and have a great time. Isn't that what the "game" is about ???
I would hate to see TPC not renew the license because of a "few bad apples" but don't be naive in thinking it can't happen. Obviously sales are not like they were a few years ago and if they are concerned about the degradation of the "image" then why wouldn't they go with another company to sell the product?
We all know that the MT's check the boards and now is a good time for suggestions on how resolve/improve the situation (especially from the group who is considered the mentor's of this game). ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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From: Raleigh, NC, US | Registered: Jul 2001
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted July 12, 2002 08:03 AM
SD_PokeMom knows what she is talking about. The ONLY thing between letting Nintendo produce the cards is Wizards of the Coast's Organized Play.
Nintendo? Huh? I thought Nintendo only made Video Games? Well before they did make video games they were actually a card game company much like WotC. Although once they started work on the video game industry, much of the company's older product deminished and they stopped making cards eventually.
So what is the big fear about Nintendo taking over our card game? I mean if they have done such a great job before with video games, why worry?
Japan
According to my sources, Nintendo and TPC has NOT allowed WotC to run ANY Organized Play in Japan. So what exactly else is TPC and Nintendo offering players of the game over there? NOTHING.
Why? Good question.
It had also come to my attention after speaking with a well known individual involved with Pokemon TCG here in North America that Nintendo actually did try to produce the Pokemon TCG in another country (whose name I cannot recall actually). What happen to the cards? Delayed. Organized play? Thats funny.
So why are we talking about Nintendo?
When the licence for the Pokemon TCG ends for WotC next Spring, Nintendo is another option The Pokemon Company (who owns the licence) is looking at. This is NOT anything new for this game, WotC has been through the ends of prior licences for the game.
So what can we do to help TPC go to OUR side? - Organize Tournaments.
- Attend League.
- Buy the next 3/4 Expansions before the license ends.
- Organize BattleZone at a local store(Fall/Winter 2002)
- Have fun.
I personally dont think its the attitudes of some select individuals that will end our license for the Pokemon TCG. Its wishfull thinking to try to turn or fix those who we do not agree with sometimes and their actions. Although I do not particularly enjoy having the ones who spoil the fun, they will remain most likely and not affect the license. What will influence TPC decision is Organized Play. If there are a lack of tournaments being sanctioned that will raise a few eyebrows.
Oh and while were on the subject of bad apples, all who talk l33t are not all bad citizens. Its like saying all the german speaking people are bad because of Hitler. I just wanted to make that clear.
-Phil
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From: Where ever the ladies take me | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted July 12, 2002 08:28 AM
Well, I for one am tired of the unruly doing all the communicating. The first thing we need to do is show that we don't tolerate behavior in this vein to the people in charge.
That being said, most players in this game are totally oblivious to these things, don't know about these places, etc. I don't want to see things ruined for them by people they've never heard of.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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BronzeGrowlithe
Member # 66394
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posted July 12, 2002 08:44 AM
Thank you, everyone. I'm sure I'm not the only person who did not know a lot of what was going on here. I really appreciate the wake-up call.
But, as far as the Magic base is concerned, I can see the worry in that. However, honestly, I don't think so for the most part. Pokémon doesn't have the huge scholarships and checks that keep many of those kinds of people interested in something. There, however, will always be those few people that seem to have nothing better to do with their time than ruin another person's day. But, I personally would NEVER in my life quit because of that. Call me stubborn, but that's how I feel. If I would even be somewhat affected by someone else's trashy attitude, I probably wouldn't be here today.
I know that continuing to try and be a helping hand will definitly contribute to something. I can't have blind faith that things will always turn out the way I want them to, but I can try and DO something about it.
And, from what I've personally heard about some stuff from the MT's, the marvelous showing at Origins, especially the Professor Challenge, was a very good step in the right direction and serious ammunition for the defense of 15+. If we keep it up, good things WILL happen.
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From: Indianapolis, IN | Registered: Feb 2002
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GreatFox
Member # 77642
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posted July 12, 2002 10:36 AM
Now.. I see how this could be a problem. We don;t want this game to look bad and have TPC switch all rights to Nintendo (the most likly candidate). Howevery, if NOA does get the game, they can do a good job with it if they wanted to. I think we all remember the Pokémon League Nintendo Training Tours and the Nintendo Summer Game Feasts. They did really good jobs with those.
The Problem is that they stop supporting those events for reasons "Onown". If NOA get the game they might or might not support it as well as WotC.
The only way I can see keeping this game is for all of us to support WotC with the new Card-e Sets and with all of the new Formats and programs that will be introduced to the game this Fall / Winter. And most importantly, by restoring the game to what it used to be. Even if that means banning l337ist from league and Orginized Play (and I don't mean those that think they are l337 just by constantly winning and tossing out normal game trash talking. I mean those that are extreamly rude to other players and are disruptive to the game.).
While l337ist don't really seem to be the biggest problem, they are a problem, none the less, that if not taken care of will ruin this game for all of us and later ask why is there no more league and OP?
However, I do believe that if we support WotC with all of thier new plans for the game and actually help rise sales (money talks after all) we should be able to keep this game alive. And as long as all of us Professors keep a good atitude and actually behave as good rolemodles for other players, our good sportmenship will eventually rub off to other players.
.
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From: Los Angeles, California | Registered: Apr 2002
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CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak
Member # 37400
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posted July 12, 2002 12:19 PM
I've been reading this post closely for a while, and I've seen a lot of different views...
Some people say the "rand0ms" put more money into the game. Some say the "hardcore" players put more money into it. Do I really know? No.
Can these players co-exist? Yes, they have to. The system we have encourages it. The system we have, also, encourages hardcore play.
Look at Year 1's Victory Road. If someone got 10 wins they got Psyduck, if they got 5 wins in a row, they got Cool Porygon.
Re-read as a "hardcore player": Pick off 10 noobs in a row and get 3 promos that will be high in value.
Year 2 didn't have any real TOURNAMENTS to speak of or things that operated this way, but the system is still the same. Pick off "rand0ms", get quick points and promos. The people that obtained all of their promos in Week 1 or Week 2 were able to trade them for a much higher value because they weren't as widely available on trade boards and such.
Year 3 has a much more devious system.
Way system was intended to be read: Compete for points. Each win earns you a higher seeding in the tournament scene, where you can win cool promo cards!
Way "hardcore" players read this system: Pick off noobs. Get quick points and promo cards. Rack up large number of unfair wins in order to gain high seeding. The higher my seeding, the more noobs I will face in the tournament, giving me a first-class ticket to the semifinals or finals, giving me a whole lot of extra promo cards. Man, I can get some Enteis or Feraligatrs or Wigglytuffs/Sneasels/Cleffas for these...
What if the "noobs" disappeared? Then every League would be full of "hardcore" players (many with "xerox" decks that they only TecHed) and everyone would be looking for a quick win, and there would be none. Complaints would go to the GL about not being able to obtain promos because matches drone on for too long. Then those players would drop off from the League and only show up for tournaments. We would have nothing. So we've established that the "rand0ms" are necessary.
But what of their feelings? They will obviously not like losing all the time, but all of the promo- and point-thirsty players will be seeking them out like a game of cat and mouse, Erika's Jigglypuffs and Pluspowers ready. How to keep those players in the game? Hmm...not sure. Can't ban the "hardcores"...too much money lost, TPC sees it, and we lose. Can't make a format like "15-3" or "Modified" norm for the Leagues...there would be an uprising (and possibly boycotting of the Leagues). The day that it was suggested that a League I attended become "anyone under 12 can play anything but 13 and over have to play Modified only" there was talk of all the 13+ boycotting the League. TPC sees this bad image, WotC loses their renewal and we lose.
Is there truly a happy balance, where a player can win most if not all of their tournaments, yet still realizes the game is about fun? NOT WITH THIS SYSTEM.
The only way such a thing could happen is for a new system to be adopted for Leagues. Everyone should get all their promos at the same time -- rewarding based on sheer volume of wins allows for people to "break" the system as described above. Awarding seeding on sheer wins does the same. Give tournaments entirely random seeding. Award extra promos to players who help other players with their decks, and players who donate cards, players who ask other players what the main problem they're running into is. "I just needed one card and couldn't get it!" Computer search. "My opponents gets ready SO quickly!" Super Energy Removal. "My hands stink!" Oak/Elm/Cleffa.
If the leagues stay as they are and the major rewards are given out for sheer wins (not to mention the player dropoff by not offering cash prizes and such) then we are in a no-win scenario.
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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.
Viva la unoriginality!
From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Lugia909
Member # 1997
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posted July 12, 2002 02:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GreatFox:
Now.. I see how this could be a problem. We don;t want this game to look bad and have TPC switch all rights to Nintendo (the most likly candidate). Howevery, if NOA does get the game, they can do a good job with it if they wanted to. I think we all remember the Pokémon League Nintendo Training Tours and the Nintendo Summer Game Feasts. They did really good jobs with those.
However, at that point they were working with WotC's abilities to handle OP and production support. This wouldn't mirror what might happen if WotC were out of the loop.
What WOULD mirror this is the fiasco which Nintendo caused when handling the TCG by themselves in the Australian market. They nearly killed it. And when WotC finally came in to rectify matters, they were left with a pretty shambolic mess, from which the Aussie players and OP haven't ever really recovered.
This is really not one of those 'better the devil you don't know' situations. We need to try and make every effort to hold the current course of the game.
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From: Greater Metropolitan Rankin, IL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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CJ-Mich
Member # 835
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posted July 12, 2002 03:19 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that if WOTC were to loose the game from TPC, it will be over. Way too many people play this game in large part because of the the way WOTC runs and supports it. Nobody else even comes close.
From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted July 12, 2002 03:49 PM
quote:
'better the devil you don't know'
Could someone explain this cliché to me? I'm not familiar with it.
CJ: You're dead-on right. I can't say enough about the job WotC does.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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DaytonGymLeader
Member # 2615
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posted July 12, 2002 03:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak:
Year 3 has a much more devious system.
Way system was intended to be read: Compete for points. Each win earns you a higher seeding in the tournament scene, where you can win cool promo cards!
Easy fix. Don't use single elim tourneys. That does away with the seeding, which in turn does away with some of the cut-throat attitude. We don't run our End Of Season Tournaments single elim, we run Age-Mod Swiss. In fact, we've gone back to the old point systems for promos (2 stamps for a win, 1 for a loss). There are also other incentives you can offer people to INNOVATE and build decks that are normally not considered, such as MMF and some other goofy formats (one we did in the past was called Ash's Rejects - you can use any Pokémon that Ash has "cast off" except those left with Professor Oak). If you do participate in the format, you get double-points for playing with that deck. We've had pretty good success with them.
Part of what the Gym Leader needs to do is innovate, think outside of the established procedures for the GOOD OF THE LEAGUE AND THE GAME overall. Now, I know I've gone a bit off topic with this post, but I think that because this is a point of contention, it deserves some lattitude. Thanks for your consideration.
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From: Dayton, Ohio, USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted July 12, 2002 03:59 PM
CPU,
That is too bad. I LIKE the new league, reverse holo energies are cool... BUT I never get my points. I DON'T care to get my points. I don't care where I get seeded for our league end tourney.
The N00bs who can't win FIX their deck. They play against all other type of players.
I for one tho won't play everyone. My problem is I am too busy PLAY-testing that I don't want to play against anyone WHO IS NOT competitive because what good will that do. *I know bad for me*
BUT kids in my league are having fun (we just got swamped by the summer crowd) THEY understand it is a game to win AND lose. You can't win all the time (because when they start bragging THEY point them in my bro's directions almost EVERYONE in my league fears him, lol yeah we keep attitudes in check)
*hope you ain't causing your GL problems*
**Hmmm A NEW league is being offered, I must round up the fellow players around here...
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From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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