I'll say "You're the Greatest" if you Help others...

[SPARTA]

When LA came out I bought a box of it and gave out all the packs.
It made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, like I ate a brownie ^_^

 

[ShadowTogetic]

helping a person with reasons and/or evidence is one thing, but the other party refusing to listen and just says "NO" without bothering to experiment is another

 

[baby mario]

^ Agreed.

It works both ways. Sometimes you spend ages giving reasons for things and get the response 'no, just no'.

Yeah, it is more 'grown up' to give constructive criticism, but it's also more 'grown up' to be able to take a harsh comment without getting all upset and defensive about it.

 

[Spavie]

I just carry on with the knowledge that the people who you are talking about are losers and are just insulting people to feel better about their insecure lives. I try to be as nice and polite as I can, and I try to help others do the same but sometimes I find that setting an example is better than telling people off. If people are being jerks on purpose I just stay as polite as ever (actually I get more polite) and I don't lower myself to their level. They might see how much better it is to be nice to people rather than trying to look like they aren't insecure losers by pretty much acting like insecure losers.

Your threads seem to be the worst off for some reason, Rogue Archetype. Just know that there are decent people in the world who are worth talking to, even if the losers and jerks are the most vocal.

EDIT: Just read my post again and I forgot to mention another thing. When people like that insult other people usually it's to get attention because they are insecure about themselves. If you bite the hook and say something, they've accomplished what they're going for, which is to feel for a minute that they're more powerful than someone else. It's best not to encourage them.

 

[Politoed666]

This is a good thread. Honestly, I've noticed a lot of the same thing around here, and I agree it needs to change. Is this the right forum, though...?

 

[lolganium]

your example wasnt great tbh (what you're saying is generally quite right) but in the context of that example i would say that the post about smeargle was pretty valid. he has built on the idea of using phione start and suggested something else. whats so wrong with that?

the forums does get pretty heated, personally i enjoy it ... no one really cares too much how much they get insulted online ... simply because its online, id rather crap on someone on here than in real life simply because it gets alot more personal and serious.

but then you mention this bad mannerdness on here, is it not the same at a real tourney?

example (sorta malarky we get up to):

some kid: i wanna make an eevee deck

everyone else: [small laugh]

tom: do you have leafeon?

some kid: yep

tom: do you have glaceon?

some kid: yep

tom: do you have .... flareon?

some kid: yup

tom: who plays flareon ?!?

everyone: [general loud and unforgiving laughter]

-------------------------------------------------------

i think its quite fun. unless people honest to god mean it, then its fun to add a bit of the ol' derogestry terms and snide remarks.
like i remember when someone dropped an articuno against me in a kingdra deck ... me and the guy next to me started laughing (we were sorta chattin at the time) cause it was funny y'know? the guy wasnt exactly seething bout it, all part of the experience.

im not endorcing flaming, but if its all in reletivly good faith and not completely vindictive ... then embrace it.

 

[Chuckles]

Yeah but still it's good to point it out,

On the other hand, is it that hard to ignore unusefull post?

Being friendly/cool always is a good thing, if certain players don't want to act like that it says more about them and their own knowledge about the game than it says about the idea (thus start of the topic)

Cheers,

I am a player who reads the Gym faithfully, but I will very rarely post anything because I am wary of the flamers on the board. And as a reader, once a thread goes off topic with useless, negative and ignorant comments, I'll stop reading the thread. Which means maybe I missed out on a great post that got buried under the flaming comments. That, I think, is the harm that can come from "unuseful posts." Yes, we can ignore them, but it may mean that I ignore the entire thread. I'd much rather go the route of people not posting those comments to begin with. I think this would be more of a community that way, and I applaud Rogue Archetype for yet another thoughtful thread.

 

[Godzfirefly]

no one really cares too much how much they get insulted online ... simply because its online, id rather crap on someone on here than in real life simply because it gets alot more personal and serious.

I know you didn't mean this in a negative way, but that particular statement is one that kinda bothers me. Having worked in both a Customer Service Call Center and in face-to-face customer service positions, I can tell you that people are all too frequently awful to other people when they're not face to face. Just because they're strangers that they can't see, people seem to suddenly feel it is acceptable to say things that they'd never say in person, even to a stranger. But, just cause you can't see the person you're being mean to does not mean they don't get hurt by it.

And, people you talk to online are just that...people. You can say "no one really cares too much how much they get insulted online ... simply because its online," but the truth is that some of those people really do care. And laughing it off or saying that they shouldn't care won't change that fact.

Just saying, maybe you should consider treating people online like you would treat people face to face. Especially on this kind of forum where you may actually see that person at a tournament someday.

 

[P_A]

And for those who refuse to consider the feelings of others, when their posts are brought to our attention, the mods and admins should, can and will infract to the point of banning. Hopefully sooner or later that person will get the hint - otherwise, well, like they say .... Good riddance. We don't see every bad post, but eventually a lot of bad posts get reported, and they do add up. Take this as a friendly warning. Thanks for the thread. It's a good one.

 

[SPARTA]

Of course its a good thread, red face paint Archetype made it.

 

[toxictaipan]

Wow, he nailed it on the HEAD.


Thanks man, I'm not the only one who sees it this way.

 

[pokemon-dad]

Rogue, I'm very new to the Gym, and I've noticed exactly what you are talking about. It really bothers me how, if you read through the decklist forum, apparently no deck is playable (wow, that's strange... how does anyone play or win?). Everyone has a single card that will destroy your deck. "Your deck is the sux0rs! Everyone knows that [insert card here] will kill your deck in an instant!".

I also like how people seem to sometimes disregard facts like their card is a stage 2 level X with 4 energy attaches required, or may be something you may not see a lot of. I appreciate valid feedback, like the fact that Dialga G lv X is probably going to get a lot of play at states (in which case, please thoughtfully and respectfully point this out, I will actually appreciate your comment). But some posts just seem so... not helpful. :smile:

I have seen some really positive feedback, though, which I really appreciate. I got some well thought out comments on a couple of threads I posted. I just hate when I read "Kingdra is the FAIL, no one plays him anymore!" posts.

 

[ryanvergel]

Rogue, I'm very new to the Gym, and I've noticed exactly what you are talking about. It really bothers me how, if you read through the decklist forum, apparently no deck is playable (wow, that's strange... how does anyone play or win?). Everyone has a single card that will destroy your deck. "Your deck is the sux0rs! Everyone knows that [insert card here] will kill your deck in an instant!".

I also like how people seem to sometimes disregard facts like their card is a stage 2 level X with 4 energy attaches required, or may be something you may not see a lot of. I appreciate valid feedback, like the fact that Dialga G lv X is probably going to get a lot of play at states (in which case, please thoughtfully and respectfully point this out, I will actually appreciate your comment). But if your card that will destroy my deck is a Mantine or a Ho-oh... please keep your comment to yourself. :smile:

I have seen some really positive feedback, though, which I really appreciate. I got some well thought out comments on a couple of threads I posted. I just hate when I read "Kingdra is the FAIL, no one plays him anymore!" posts.

The bolded portion is just honest truth. Would you rather people lie and say the deck WILL work in a competitive metagame?

If I see a deck posted that is entirely weak to say, fighting, or relies exclusively on bodies- I will tell them the deck can't work.

I'd rather save people time than waste it.

The fact is that most people who post on the deck help forum aren't good, and don't post good decks. You can't really expect to NOT hear constantly that the decks won't work competitively or rely on a flawed strategy.

I see this as a good thing, not a bad thing like you make it out to be. Would you rather someone tell you the deck won't work at states, or keep working it blindly so that you go 0-4 drop at states?

 

[WinkWinkNudgeNudge]

First I would like to say that problem is not so bad that we should condemn the community.

I got very helpful responses to my very first thread that asked about why you would use Plus Power instead of Strength Charm http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=63261

The reponse to my second thread really did make me feel like I should stop posting. I asked where to find a thread about GG. I did finally get an answer on post #11. Re-reading the thread in hindsight the response weren't really that bad. But at the time they made me feel pretty small, particularly the first two. The most helpful answer would have been mentioning how to search threads. I don't think that ever came up. http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64288

On the other hand we have had threads where people have bent over backwards to be helpful, polite and informative. For example a Poke Grandpa in Seattle had asked some questions http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71732 Not all the posts were gems but they were well intentioned, the mods herded the posters in a good direction to help the thread more. In the the we had a good thread and a greatful Grandpa in Seattle.

Finally getting completely ignored is possible the most discouraging think that can happen. http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77963 particularly if you've put a lot of effort into the thread.

While I don't think that the problem is nearly as prevalent as this thread makes it sound. It does indeed exist. The best thing that I can think of to futher improve the situation is for the people who care in addition to adding their useful and informative replies also (in a positive manner) point out why other responses were not appropriate. For example.

Guys, throwing jargon at him isn't very helpful.
Name the Pokemon in your suggested combo.
Otherwise, you might was well be speaking in tongues.

IMHO

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

Ryan, polite and constructive comments are nearly always welcome ... and frequently lacking around here.

Rather than "OMG, your deck sucks. If you play this you will go 0-4, drop, at states" it would be nice to see constructive and polite feedback. It's OK to let someone know that a given idea may not pan out, but how that's said matters a lot in terms of building a supportive community.

Saying "I'd rather save people time that waste it." is a false argument that doesn't really address the point raised by red face paint Archetype or pokemon-dad.

I’ll also add that text based mediums like this are notoriously difficult ones in terms of expressing humor or subtly well. I’m sure that some people are just trying to be funny with their cracks here and there, but mostly they fail, and end up causing offence.

 

[ryanvergel]

Ryan, polite and constructive comments are nearly always welcome ... and frequently lacking around here.

Rather than "OMG, your deck sucks. If you play this you will go 0-4, drop, at states" it would be nice to see constructive and polite feedback. It's OK to let someone know that a given idea may not pan out, but how that's said matters a lot in terms of building a supportive community.

Saying "I'd rather save people time that waste it." is a false argument that doesn't really address the point raised by red face paint Archetype or pokemon-dad.

I’ll also add that text based mediums like this are notoriously difficult ones in terms of expressing humor or subtly well. I’m sure that some people are just trying to be funny with their cracks here and there, but mostly they fail, and end up causing offence.

Not really.

Pokemon-dad was saying that he didn't like people saying that certain decks wouldn't work, etc. I said that this is actually beneficial. It bothers pokemon-dad that people say no deck is playable... well, I guess the truth bothers him.

I never said doing it in a rude way was beneficial. However, being truthful and sometimes blunt is very beneficial to people.

I wasn't referring to RA, I was commenting ONLY on pokemon-dad's post.

I maintain my point- it is MUCH better to tell someone their deck won't work than to waste their time by giving "fixes" that won't do anything but make a bad deck a less bad deck.

 

[Scizor]

I see some constructive criticism on this site. For example, Sparta seems to post a lot of useful information, but seems to end up getting in arguments with 'Gym members who refuse to believe they are wrong in anything. Jason and Fulop have come on here and brought up relevant discussions to better the game, etc.

Also, a lot of people seem to assume that just because "great" players aren't helping on Pokegym, they aren't helping at all. This is so far from the truth. I know several great players (considering a lot of them are my friends) and they hardly shun people away that ask for help or advice. I know I have given advice to countless people over the years.

You also have to realize this is a public message board. Not everything is going to be revealed. This isn't Magic: The Gathering where there is a bunch of skill involved, with no matter what deck you play and there are hundreds of professional players. The Pokegym should be thankful when a great player takes their time to explain things on here.

 

[pokemon-dad]

Not really.

Pokemon-dad was saying that he didn't like people saying that certain decks wouldn't work, etc. I said that this is actually beneficial. It bothers pokemon-dad that people say no deck is playable... well, I guess the truth bothers him.

I never said doing it in a rude way was beneficial. However, being truthful and sometimes blunt is very beneficial to people.

I wasn't referring to RA, I was commenting ONLY on pokemon-dad's post.

I maintain my point- it is MUCH better to tell someone their deck won't work than to waste their time by giving "fixes" that won't do anything but make a bad deck a less bad deck.

Sigh.

Okay... to claify. ryan, you had some very good points. Of course some decks are just better than others, I get that. I would just like to see a little more discussion in the responses. It is a bit discouraging that some posters on the board tend to dismiss ideas out of hand without giving it much thought or discussion. Guess what? Every deck has a potential weakness! Make a front page post about your SP deck? Guaranteed someone will say, "Dialga G X is st00pid! You'll never get past my 4 pokeblowers!!11!!!1 LOLOMGROFL".

I actually like hearing feedback and thoughts from the board; in my post about whether or not Leafeon X would work with Tyranitar, I received some very well thought out and well informed, mature and helpful responses about the merits of using a stage 1 lv X as an energy accelerator. I even received some helpful feedback from you, ryan, about Eevee decks in general, which I appreciated. My problem is with dismissive, unhelpful, condescending, not-adding-to-the-discussion posts. Is my deck too slow? Help me understand why so I can make the next one better. etc. Felicity's doesn't work in the deck that I built? Please tell me why.

As a corollary, it also frustrates me a bit that new ideas/synergies seem to be not very well received (half the posts in the IPLOX thread on the front page were telling him how dumb his deck was, despite the fact that he was winning with it). Tired of facing too many GG decks at states? That guy might have brought something else to the tournament if we all had a rational, helpful discussion about his deck idea.

Anyway.... I think I've said enough. :smile:

 

[Brawler]

It seems like every thread here turns into a flame war. Some people here do some stuff that really gets on my nerves. Sometimes I post a thread, and 9 out of 10 times I get flamed. Like for example, I posted a Brawl tourney thread a while ago. I put some limits on it, and people complained. One posted a few long sets of paragraphs on the tourney, and guess what? He never joined. I also had a few people just complaining about the rules. Very few people just sat back and did nothing. I've also posted threads where everybody just starts flaming each other right after 2 different people post. Some people here just can't stand other users, and other people can't stand anybody who gives them critisisim. It's a little hostile here, and I can't stand it. Why can't anyone just have a nice, peaceful discussion(not saying debating is bad, it's just the flaming.)

 

[selerky]

Very good point, Rogue Archtype. I sort of agree that it should be on the front page- or rather, that everyone should see it at least. Hopefully everyone will take the hint.
I, for one, have decided to try to be more helpful & less critical from now on. Thank you.
And no, I'm not being sarcastic. Way to go, Rogue.