I'll say "You're the Greatest" if you Help others...

[yoyofsho16]

I agree. I also dislike when people make spammy posts somewhere along these lines:

I know a way that Regigigas can consistently beat Rampardos. Nothing can stop it. But it's a secret so I'm not going to tell.

UGH that grinds my gears. Anybody who says "You are noob" to me on the internet also annoys me. First off, I'm not a noob, I'm better than average for sure. And if you think I am awful, say why instead of saying "You just are. That's a bad idea."

 

[ryanvergel]

Sigh.

Okay... to claify. ryan, you had some very good points. Of course some decks are just better than others, I get that. I would just like to see a little more discussion in the responses. It is a bit discouraging that some posters on the board tend to dismiss ideas out of hand without giving it much thought or discussion. Guess what? Every deck has a potential weakness! Make a front page post about your SP deck? Guaranteed someone will say, "Dialga G X is st00pid! You'll never get past my 4 pokeblowers!!11!!!1 LOLOMGROFL".

I actually like hearing feedback and thoughts from the board; in my post about whether or not Leafeon X would work with Tyranitar, I received some very well thought out and well informed, mature and helpful responses about the merits of using a stage 1 lv X as an energy accelerator. I even received some helpful feedback from you, ryan, about Eevee decks in general, which I appreciated. My problem is with dismissive, unhelpful, condescending, not-adding-to-the-discussion posts. Is my deck too slow? Help me understand why so I can make the next one better. etc. Felicity's doesn't work in the deck that I built? Please tell me why.

As a corollary, it also frustrates me a bit that new ideas/synergies seem to be not very well received (half the posts in the IPLOX thread on the front page were telling him how dumb his deck was, despite the fact that he was winning with it). Tired of facing too many GG decks at states? That guy might have brought something else to the tournament if we all had a rational, helpful discussion about his deck idea.

Anyway.... I think I've said enough. :smile:

I didn't like that at all. Not only did they provide very bad arguments, but they did it in a very bad way. Bad on both accounts, and the posts are no longer there. Things were done about it, though.

It's not to say that there are decks with no counters/weaknesses- it's that many decks have a POPULAR counter/weakness about that people just REFUSE to accept.

4 pokeblower lol. That's not a legitimate answer to Dialga. You might donk it off early, and somehow do 120 damage? How? Even then, you just used 4 slots and a huge attack to get rid of a 1/1 tech.

 

[sar86]

What bothers me is when someone tells you to completely change your deck. Most people who post a list up know the strategy that they want to play, they just want it to be a bit more consistent.

About a week ago I was reading a thread about a Gallade/Cresselia list, with 4-2-4 Gallade, 2-2 Cresselia, 2-2 Claydol, 2 Unown G & 3 Uxie. Someone replied with this post

-2 Gallade
-2 Marley
-4 Quick Ball
+3 Gardevoir
+1 Garde X
+2 Uxie
+1 Premier Ball
+1 Luxury Ball
...IMO.

That is not helpful at all to try to change the deck into a PLOX varient, when it's clearly not what the person wants to play. Not everyone is looking to have the best list ever. Some people are looking to have fun.

 

[Phazon Elite]

That is not helpful at all to try to change the deck into a PLOX varient, when it's clearly not what the person wants to play. Not everyone is looking to have the best list ever. Some people are looking to have fun.

I know nothing of your skill, so don't take this as a personal attack, but if someone wants to utilize a crappy strategy, I'm not helping them; I'm just going to tell them that they need to put that deck back in the shoebox. They're not worth the time it takes to mod a bad deck. I'd rather take someone who has an obviously brilliant idea and help them get it over the next hump: there's a sense of accomplishment there. Conditional advice, baby.

Plus, to be perfectly honest, sar, he made your deck much better. If you don't like it, don't follow his advice. Complaining that people aren't helping you in the way you want them to is like being a beggar and whining because someone gave you a $10 bill instead of the roll of quarters you were hoping for.

It seems like every thread here turns into a flame war.

That's what happens when site staff try to forcibly change the entire forum's atmosphere.
I'm not going to go off on this, but I called it. LOL.

: )

The reponse to my second thread really did make me feel like I should stop posting. I asked where to find a thread about GG. I did finally get an answer on post #11. Re-reading the thread in hindsight the response weren't really that bad. But at the time they made me feel pretty small, particularly the first two. The most helpful answer would have been mentioning how to search threads.

Public humiliation is a fantastic tool to help train someone to do something. Works almost every time. Some people don't listen to reason, so embarrassment is the best way to deal with idiots like that.

 

[WinkWinkNudgeNudge]

Public humiliation is a fantastic tool to help train someone to do something. Works almost every time. Some people don't listen to reason, so embarrassment is the best way to deal with idiots like that.

I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it is hurtful, insensitive, counter productive and demeaning. However, it is just as important for someone to point out that something like public humiliation is never (no almost) just never a tool( fantastic or otherwise). What it is is cruelty plain and simple.

My heart felt sympathy to you Phazon Elite.

 

[sar86]

I know nothing of your skill, so don't take this as a personal attack, but if someone wants to utilize a crappy strategy, I'm not helping them; I'm just going to tell them that they need to put that deck back in the shoebox. They're not worth the time it takes to mod a bad deck. I'd rather take someone who has an obviously brilliant idea and help them get it over the next hump: there's a sense of accomplishment there. Conditional advice, baby.

Plus, to be perfectly honest, sar, he made your deck much better. If you don't like it, don't follow his advice. Complaining that people aren't helping you in the way you want them to is like being a beggar and whining because someone gave you a $10 bill instead of the roll of quarters you were hoping for.

1st off, that deck wasn't mine. I'm a player who is almost always in top cut, but I only have a few tournament wins, and I know quite well that it was an awful deck idea. My point was that don't post if you're just going to trash the deck. It's not helpful at all. If you not going to help make a deck better, then don't post anything. Let someone else who will help post.

 

[lolganium]

I know you didn't mean this in a negative way, but that particular statement is one that kinda bothers me. Having worked in both a Customer Service Call Center and in face-to-face customer service positions, I can tell you that people are all too frequently awful to other people when they're not face to face. Just because they're strangers that they can't see, people seem to suddenly feel it is acceptable to say things that they'd never say in person, even to a stranger. But, just cause you can't see the person you're being mean to does not mean they don't get hurt by it.

And, people you talk to online are just that...people. You can say "no one really cares too much how much they get insulted online ... simply because its online," but the truth is that some of those people really do care. And laughing it off or saying that they shouldn't care won't change that fact.

Just saying, maybe you should consider treating people online like you would treat people face to face. Especially on this kind of forum where you may actually see that person at a tournament someday.

true, and i agree, but i was talkin 'to a degree' not like relentless killer sick insults constant so they go hang themselves.

what ryanvergel is saying is true: theres optimism and origonality ... then theres loss. its good to point out metagaming errors and the truth is that people usually arent being spiteful about it but the person takes it as a personal attack and gets in a hissy about it.

the whole thing about mods posting comments about 'getting back on topic' has always baffled me slightly: how many timees have you started a conversation and that conversation to completely stay the same from begginig to end? how many conversations have you had where the subjects scew off to completely different and even useless subjects? its natural to go onto a tangent when in discussion, and i do think the tightening up that has been done with the mods trying to keep things on-topic just hasnt been welcomed. look back at say ... the old arechetype threads: they went off all over the place with an occasional poster writing straight from the article. everything seems to be tighter now, i got infraction points coming out my ears ... and alot of the time its just so petty.

welcome to nerdy card games people; nerds can be spiteful, usually self centered, often have great insults and never care about who they insult (for the record, im personally not a nerd...)

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it is hurtful, insensitive, counter productive and demeaning. However, it is just as important for someone to point out that something like public humiliation is never (no almost) just never a tool( fantastic or otherwise). What it is is cruelty plain and simple.

My heart felt sympathy to you Phazon Elite.

the best warrior's in history were built from being trashed and publiccally humiliated, relaxed 21st cetury has created no men as great as those people....because of this ideal that anything negative is bad and frownd upon. if you use carrot rather than stick to a soldier then he goes to war and gets smacked about by some afgans .... what good were you as a drill sergent?

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

I would say rather in spite of humilation ... but this isn't the place for building little Pokemon warriors anyway now is it?

Pokemon is a GAME. The people being humilated here are parents, kids, sisters, brothers, and the like who just want to learn how to play a game better.

 

[prodigal_fanboy]

Just my two cents. I'd rather be told to scrap a bad deck and then told the thematically closest deck that is in fact Tier 1 or 1.5 (if tiers truly exist in Pokemon like they do in M:tG).

In my progress as a player, what is more beneficial: playing with a good deck until I see why it's good, or playing with a bad deck until I see why it's bad?

 

[Bippa201]

In regards to the decks on the help and strategy forum - Did it ever occur to you that people may like to try creating decks that are not Tier 1, 2 or 3. They just like having fun. That is what this game is all about : Playing for fun. Sure the prizes all seem nice, but you only get their by having fun. If you like the game, you are having gun. any deck can work in any tournament, Intimidation being the best example,. Archetypes are only the cream of the crop. That does not mean that they are the only decks that win tournaments, they are just good decks. You can play whatever you want. You do not simply have to jump onto the Kingdra bandwagon if you want to win. You can create a Palkia deck if you want. Just because an archetype is there, simply does not mean you have to use it. Their are plenty of cards out there.

 

[Prime]

I don't read the deck section much at all, but when I do read over some threads and post, I try to make my posts as informative as possible. If I tell someone that a certain tactic or card doesn't work, I explain why. I feel most people only do half that much. It doesn't help someone to tell them that a tactic or card won't work if you don't explain to them why it won't work. But even when certain ideas look flimsy or weak to a popular idea, you have to try to work with the creator of the deck and try to improve their deck idea to the most it can be. Just because it has a hard counter in the format doesn't mean it is unplayable. Regigigas lv.X saw play even though there was Machamp in the format.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't post at all. Many people don't follow that guideline because they feel they have to get their '10 cents' in on the subject, even if it's just repeating what another person has said. Sometimes they will put extra emotion into their comment so that their comment stands out over all the others that are saying the same thing. Either way, it's not constructive if your not explaining your points. Even if your points are valid, it isn't constructive not to explain it so readers can understand what you mean.

There are no excuses for weak or unconstructive posts.

 

[P_A]

Well said Prime. So those who just decide they just want to chime in and say, "You're deck won't work," or use humiliation or other tactics to belittle people about their decks ... beware. You will get an infraction - either for spam, or posting unhelpful, unkind, or rude remarks. So be helpful when showing why it won't work.

 

[lolganium]

Well said Prime. So those who just decide they just want to chime in and say, "You're deck won't work," or use humiliation or other tactics to belittle people about their decks ... beware. You will get an infraction - either for spam, or posting unhelpful, unkind, or rude remarks. So be helpful when showing why it won't work.

lets be honest here mate ... there is only so many times people can feel threatened by that ... and i do believe you're starting to exceed that limit. ive noticed that since there have been mods giving out warnings ... there are more people dissin on other people. i dont think either that people just flame more so more mods give out more warnings, i think that its the same principle as telling someone not to think about purple elephants ... 'dont flame people' becomes 'flame people' in the sub-concious and people do it.

vanderblit_grad: the context is different; in pokemon context we mean not warriors but players that know 1) a good strategy 2) a good play 3) a bad play 4) people that develop the abbillity to see a strategy and make a suseptable deck while taking into acount a metagame that must be correctly predicted for each indirvisual tournement they attend.
thats the way it relates ... harsh training means that people do it because the consequences isnt what they desire to get.

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

lolganium, in the military they have to train folks to follow orders NO MATTER WHAT. They have to make people part of that chain of command. The 'harshness' has nothing to do with the skill of a soldier and everything to do with the nature of the military itself.

Pokemon is a GAME that uses the mind. Practice, thinking, and creativity are the ingredients that make a good player. You don't have to have humiliation involved to be good at all three. In fact humiliation will discourage both practice and creativity in many cases. Discipline, perseverance, and love of the game are examples of things that will bring out the best in folks.

When I was more serious about the martial arts I strongly recall one of my sensei telling me about a tournament he was in. He wanted so badly to win. He had practiced tirelessly beforehand. He ended up doing very poorly as he was too caught up in “trying to win” and not enough in responding to the moment. The event after that one he didn’t really care if he won or lost ... and he ended up doing much better against the same people.

Don’t mistake me as someone who undervalues effort. I even understand that not all pain is bad. After years of work in the gym (as in the place where you lift weights) I totally get “good pain” and “bad pain” and understand how “good pain” can lead to good things.

However Pokemon is not a place for “harsh” training and no benefit is accrued by humiliation here. Discipline, focus, effort, and such have their place. However I see no place for the things that you and some others have talked about.

Too many people here seem to have their ego tied up in being “elite” or “skilled.” You better believe that I am going to do my best to win and I have 2 CCs and one of the top 50 masters ranking spots in NA to show for my effort so far this season ... but at the end of the day I have enough confidence in myself that, should I not come in first, that it doesn’t beat me down.

The feeling that I get from the post of many here is that they think that they are “elite” and that it gives them the only sense of superiority they have in their lives. They cut others down so that they can fell big. I can’t tell you how lame and insecure some posts seems to me. “Oh that’s why the GOOD players don’t post anymore” is just an excuse so they can be selfish and hold others down so they can feel good about their “skill.” It all just ends up seeming petty to me.

Being harsh to someone here isn’t going to do anyone any good. It doesn’t help the person on the receiving end. It doesn’t help the person being harsh. It’s a wasted effort on all sides and hurts the gym as a whole.

True training comes from within, from one’s own desire. It helps when others can show you the way, but they can’t get you over the hump. Harshness isn’t going to push them over either.

 

[lolganium]

lolganium, in the military they have to train folks to follow orders NO MATTER WHAT. They have to make people part of that chain of command. The 'harshness' has nothing to do with the skill of a soldier and everything to do with the nature of the military itself.

yes, but then as i understand it the american marines have a reputation for being under disiciplined

Pokemon is a GAME that uses the mind. Practice, thinking, and creativity are the ingredients that make a good player. You don't have to have humiliation involved to be good at all three. In fact humiliation will discourage both practice and creativity in many cases. Discipline, perseverance, and love of the game are examples of things that will bring out the best in folks.

tell me mr vanderblits_grad; what is the best method of teaching disipline? is it not the stick method? by which you attack the bad and overlook the good? people become good by correcting fault, not remembering the correct

When I was more serious about the martial arts I strongly recall one of my sensei telling me about a tournament he was in. He wanted so badly to win. He had practiced tirelessly beforehand. He ended up doing very poorly as he was too caught up in “trying to win” and not enough in responding to the moment. The event after that one he didn’t really care if he won or lost ... and he ended up doing much better against the same people.

that isnt a great example of martial arts consistancy. ive won in my home area, and ive won after an all-nighter trip to scotland against the world champion. as general choi said "a martial artist should be able to train any time, any place" that includes competing

Don’t mistake me as someone who undervalues effort. I even understand that not all pain is bad. After years of work in the gym (as in the place where you lift weights) I totally get “good pain” and “bad pain” and understand how “good pain” can lead to good things.

However Pokemon is not a place for “harsh” training and no benefit is accrued by humiliation here. Discipline, focus, effort, and such have their place. However I see no place for the things that you and some others have talked about.

if someone ripped you apart in a tourney and braggd about it, what would you do? wimper away of come back next time with the intension of making them look stupid? if its the first then the player was not destined to be a top notch one ... and the ones that play for the fun of it? well, they shake insults off, they play for fun and dont care what people think

Too many people here seem to have their ego tied up in being “elite” or “skilled.” You better believe that I am going to do my best to win and I have 2 CCs and one of the top 50 masters ranking spots in NA to show for my effort so far this season ... but at the end of the day I have enough confidence in myself that, should I not come in first, that it doesn’t beat me down.

arrogence enough to not be able to take defeat is someone undeserving of a win

The feeling that I get from the post of many here is that they think that they are “elite” and that it gives them the only sense of superiority they have in their lives. They cut others down so that they can fell big. I can’t tell you how lame and insecure some posts seems to me. “Oh that’s why the GOOD players don’t post anymore” is just an excuse so they can be selfish and hold others down so they can feel good about their “skill.” It all just ends up seeming petty to me.

though i agree alot of people are so much of a bunch of loosers they insult just to make themselves feel better. but, it is generally correct that consistantly great players nevere post of this forum; ness has only posted for his tour he did. gino lombardi, isnt most loved, but only posted an interveiw (at least recently). top players dont post ... its a bear reality

Being harsh to someone here isn’t going to do anyone any good. It doesn’t help the person on the receiving end. It doesn’t help the person being harsh. It’s a wasted effort on all sides and hurts the gym as a whole.

be cruel to be kind? sometimes what must be done, must be done

True training comes from within, from one’s own desire. It helps when others can show you the way, but they can’t get you over the hump. Harshness isn’t going to push them over either.

you mentioned earlier that pokemon is just a game, and now you talk of 'true training from within.' make up your mind is is a game with desire and passion and blood, sweat tears? or just a card game?

171717171717171717

 

[Clueless in Seattle]

I may be setting myself up to be flamed by posting this, but I have to say that I've had nothing but civil, helpful and friendly replies to my posts in the PokeGym forums.

And I'm sure that many, if not most of my posts, have exhibited such utter cluelessness as to try the patience of the most self-restrained and courteous among you.

So I'd say, don't be so hard on yourselves, and give yourselves credit where credit is due. I've found you to be great bunch of folks and I'm grateful for all the help and guidance I've received here so far.

 

[Bippa201]

It is almost with this threads mere presence, the whole gym has changed. Everyone is acting more civilized, the flaming has gone down, and people are not afraid to ask for help.

Thank you so much RA.

 

[Godzfirefly]

It is almost with this threads mere presence, the whole gym has changed. Everyone is acting more civilized, the flaming has gone down, and people are not afraid to ask for help.

Thank you so much RA.

Quoted For Truth

Thank you very much, Rogue Archetype!

 

[Phazon Elite]

true, and i agree, but i was talkin 'to a degree' not like relentless killer sick insults constant so they go hang themselves.

what ryanvergel is saying is true: theres optimism and origonality ... then theres loss. its good to point out metagaming errors and the truth is that people usually arent being spiteful about it but the person takes it as a personal attack and gets in a hissy about it.

the whole thing about mods posting comments about 'getting back on topic' has always baffled me slightly: how many timees have you started a conversation and that conversation to completely stay the same from begginig to end? how many conversations have you had where the subjects scew off to completely different and even useless subjects? its natural to go onto a tangent when in discussion, and i do think the tightening up that has been done with the mods trying to keep things on-topic just hasnt been welcomed. look back at say ... the old arechetype threads: they went off all over the place with an occasional poster writing straight from the article. everything seems to be tighter now, i got infraction points coming out my ears ... and alot of the time its just so petty.

welcome to nerdy card games people; nerds can be spiteful, usually self centered, often have great insults and never care about who they insult (for the record, im personally not a nerd...)

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:



the best warrior's in history were built from being trashed and publiccally humiliated, relaxed 21st cetury has created no men as great as those people....because of this ideal that anything negative is bad and frownd upon. if you use carrot rather than stick to a soldier then he goes to war and gets smacked about by some afgans .... what good were you as a drill sergent?

lolganium speaks the truth! All hail lolganium! If lolganium is a kid, this post proves that he's on his way to manhood: his mind is already almost there!. If he's actually a full-grown man, his rightness will surely secure him at least some of what he desires.

Seriously, he's absolutely correct.

1st off, that deck wasn't mine. I'm a player who is almost always in top cut, but I only have a few tournament wins, and I know quite well that it was an awful deck idea. My point was that don't post if you're just going to trash the deck. It's not helpful at all. If you not going to help make a deck better, then don't post anything. Let someone else who will help post.

LOL, don't beat yourself up, man. I have exactly zero. Not even a BR. : )

I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it is hurtful, insensitive, counter productive and demeaning. However, it is just as important for someone to point out that something like public humiliation is never (no almost) just never a tool( fantastic or otherwise). What it is is cruelty plain and simple.

To put this in a parenting perspective: it is my personal opinion that if one babies one's kids, they'll turn out to be sub-par adults. Yes, positive reinforcement has its place, but you must be negative at times.

There was a story in the news a week ago about a kid who got terrible grades on his report card. His parents were understandably upset about that, so they did the most awesome thing ever: they made the kid stand at a busy intersection, with a sign that was making fun of his grades. He got the point, but only thanks to his hardball parents.

My (rather short) point? Negativity has it's place in every single facet of society, even self-righteous Pokemon forums. Take the damn blinders off, everyone.

My heart felt sympathy to you Phazon Elite.

You're so sweet. <3

In regards to the decks on the help and strategy forum - Did it ever occur to you that people may like to try creating decks that are not Tier 1, 2 or 3. They just like having fun.

So, these people need someone else to help them figure out how to have fun? Is that honestly what we're dealing with here?

Well said Prime. So those who just decide they just want to chime in and say, "You're deck won't work," or use humiliation or other tactics to belittle people about their decks ... beware. You will get an infraction - either for spam, or posting unhelpful, unkind, or rude remarks. So be helpful when showing why it won't work.

Well . . . I guess I just won't help people with decks, then. I'll let the P<3kem<3n Supp<3rt Gr<3up take care of them.

One thing everyone needs to remember: forums are populated with the general public. The general public is, quite simply, stupid. React according to how stupid the OP makes himself seem. For example, if the OP can't take the time to use anything but chat abbreviations, I can't take the time to really care enough about what he's saying to post an insightful reply.

(Kinda distracted, sorry if something doesn't make sense. Feel free to ask for clarity)

Edit: I didn't see the last few posts when I posted all that.

lolganium is again entirely correct. His rightness level is well over 9000. All you other kids can learn something from him.

 

[Alazor]

lolganium speaks the truth! All hail lolganium! If lolganium is a kid, this post proves that he's on his way to manhood: his mind is already almost there!. If he's actually a full-grown man, his rightness will surely secure him at least some of what he desires.

Seriously, he's absolutely correct.



LOL, don't beat yourself up, man. I have exactly zero. Not even a BR. : )

Welcome to the zero win team.