Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Prize Picking Ethics.

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pat460 said:
So, even if you go to head judge, who tells you your decks ok, it can still be marked, and judges are allowed to make proxies, but not required, and its based upon whether they want to or not. i.e. if the judge doens't like you, your screwed. Seems like a great system!
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Phazon Elite said:
"I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords."
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pat460 said:
As do I
:nonono::nonono:17
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Remember that a "Marked Card" to one Judge does not necessarily mean it is to another. Whereas this seems inconsistent, it isn't.. and that is why we Team Judge.

At Nationals, it was determined by several Members that the Red cards were marked and ultimately decided by the HJ the proper Penalty to assign with the consent of POP. As a Team, I back them up 100%.

If the HJ determines before an event cards are not marked, it doesn't mean that during the event, those same cards will be okay. Reasoning, as everyone knows, various factors come up during rounds that can produce a more visible situation to specific cards. Also notice that a 90% AH deck can be just as marked as a 10% AH deck. The basis is there is a small "pool" of cards that are identifiable.

Now, if you had a 50% AH deck where Pokemon, Trainers, and Energy were AH.. this creates a situation where though they are "marked", it is not necessarily a marked deck. Reasoning, different cards throughout the deck will have a similar curl not allowing a player to identify if it is an energy, trainer, or Pokemon. This again is at the discretion of the Judge Team, but more often than not, if I can't pick out specific cards consistently (key word there), then it wouldn't be identified as "marked".

One more Point... " Marked" is not a negative term. Noticing society has introduced it as such (ie. a Marked Man), in OP it is not. It is a term used to identify potential (key word there too) problem resulting in a Player gaining a significant (another Key word) advantage.

Hope that is clear as mud!

Fish
 
evil psyduck said:
His point is just to argue.
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Usually, with Pokemom, that IS the case, but I'm actually serious this time.

The rules regarding cards that are naturally bent are silly. Yes, if one card if forming an arch in your prizes, that obviously needsto be addressed, But if all of your holos naturally bend that way, the fact that they could all be considered "marked" and lead you into a DQ is dumb.

//is a rampant holophile
 
MrMeches said:
Remember that a "Marked Card" to one Judge does not necessarily mean it is to another. Whereas this seems inconsistent, it isn't.. and that is why we Team Judge.

What the ehad judge remains superior over the floor judges, right? So if someone asks the head judge, logically what the other judges say shouldn't matter, but thats exactly what happened. Is that why you 'team judge'?

At Nationals, it was determined by several Members that the Red cards were marked and ultimately decided by the HJ the proper Penalty to assign with the consent of POP. As a Team, I back them up 100%.

ou back him up when he told them beforehand that the cards were ok, then changed his mind and DQ'd them? Just checking here, is that what your saying?

If the HJ determines before an event cards are not marked, it doesn't mean that during the event, those same cards will be okay. Reasoning, as everyone knows, various factors come up during rounds that can produce a more visible situation to specific cards. Also notice that a 90% AH deck can be just as marked as a 10% AH deck. The basis is there is a small "pool" of cards that are identifiable.


Sure, the cards could become makred, but thats not what happened at nats, the mark was there before the event and during deckchecks.

Now, if you had a 50% AH deck where Pokemon, Trainers, and Energy were AH.. this creates a situation where though they are "marked", it is not necessarily a marked deck. Reasoning, different cards throughout the deck will have a similar curl not allowing a player to identify if it is an energy, trainer, or Pokemon. This again is at the discretion of the Judge Team, but more often than not, if I can't pick out specific cards consistently (key word there), then it wouldn't be identified as "marked".


Thats rediculous. Its the fault of the company that produces the cards on this one, though, not OP or POP or whatever. The foils shouldn't be marked this badly. However, if I want to foil out my deck best I can, and am only able to get, say, my pokemon and a few energy foils, it's not my fault for having a marked deck. Especially with the cards that are only available in foils. Essentially, every LvL X and TSD and whatever else is exclusivly foil is automatically marked.

One more Point... " Marked" is not a negative term. Noticing society has introduced it as such (ie. a Marked Man), in OP it is not. It is a term used to identify potential (key word there too) problem resulting in a Player gaining a significant (another Key word) advantage.

So a potential problem isn't a bad thing? I continue to learn things from you.

Hope that is clear as mud!

Be more self confidant, thats at least murky water-status.

Fish
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replies in bold17171717171177
 
Originally Posted by MrMeches
Remember that a "Marked Card" to one Judge does not necessarily mean it is to another. Whereas this seems inconsistent, it isn't.. and that is why we Team Judge.

What the ehad judge remains superior over the floor judges, right? So if someone asks the head judge, logically what the other judges say shouldn't matter, but thats exactly what happened. Is that why you 'team judge'?

The Head Judge has the Final say, right. However, a Great HJ always listens to the Team around them to gather as much information possible before making the FINAL RULING. Unless you were involved at the Nationals situation, then you really don't know exactly what happened. Team Judging has been in place at Nationals and World's for a long time... you may not have been aware of it.. but that is how it works!
At Nationals, it was determined by several Members that the Red cards were marked and ultimately decided by the HJ the proper Penalty to assign with the consent of POP. As a Team, I back them up 100%.

ou back him up when he told them beforehand that the cards were ok, then changed his mind and DQ'd them? Just checking here, is that what your saying?

Yes... 100%. Do you have insight as to why he changed his mind? Again, if you weren't there first hand, then it is a moot point. I was there and a Member of the Team.

 If the HJ determines before an event cards are not marked, it doesn't mean that during the event, those same cards will be okay. Reasoning, as everyone knows, various factors come up during rounds that can produce a more visible situation to specific cards. Also notice that a 90% AH deck can be just as marked as a 10% AH deck. The basis is there is a small "pool" of cards that are identifiable.

Sure, the cards could become makred, but thats not what happened at nats, the mark was there before the event and during deckchecks.

"A" mark was present yes, however, see above....
Now, if you had a 50% AH deck where Pokemon, Trainers, and Energy were AH.. this creates a situation where though they are "marked", it is not necessarily a marked deck. Reasoning, different cards throughout the deck will have a similar curl not allowing a player to identify if it is an energy, trainer, or Pokemon. This again is at the discretion of the Judge Team, but more often than not, if I can't pick out specific cards consistently (key word there), then it wouldn't be identified as "marked".


Thats rediculous. Its the fault of the company that produces the cards on this one, though, not OP or POP or whatever. The foils shouldn't be marked this badly. However, if I want to foil out my deck best I can, and am only able to get, say, my pokemon and a few energy foils, it's not my fault for having a marked deck. Especially with the cards that are only available in foils. Essentially, every LvL X and TSD and whatever else is exclusivly foil is automatically marked.

So at this point your arguing just to argue.. makes since based on the rest of your posts. Did you even read what I typed? If, now I understand this is hard to grasp, but will make it as clear as possible, YOU KNOW your deck has specific cards that are Holo and they are the only ones (ie all nrg are holo and curl the same way and easily picked out if set on the table) then the responsibility is.... wait for it.... YOURS! :eek: You say NO WAY.. how can that be... you gave me the cards.. you made them... how is it MY fault....REALLY? :eek: The Judge is there to provide a FAIR and FUN event for everyone. If I can take your deck to a JR player, and they can pick out the Holo Energy and know where they are in the deck... then it really isn't that difficult to DQ and move along. Same with Specific Pokemon/Trainers in the deck.

 One more Point... " Marked" is not a negative term. Noticing society has introduced it as such (ie. a Marked Man), in OP it is not. It is a term used to identify potential (key word there too) problem resulting in a Player gaining a significant (another Key word) advantage.

So a potential problem isn't a bad thing? I continue to learn things from you.

A Potential Problem is not a bad thing....but you need to quit picking the sentences apart and read them in their entirety. It is the GAINING A SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE portion of the sentence you decided to omit from your rebuttal that creates your learning issue. When someone is going to the store and they tell you "I am going to the store.".. do you stop listening at "I am going"? :confused: In your reply you stopped at Potential Problem.:nonono:
Hope that is clear as mud!

Be more self confidant, thats at least murky water-status.

Trust me.. ask those that know..sniper will tell you... I do not lack in self confidence.

Fish
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Have responded Blue .. though I don't BLUE know why... in BLUE :rolleyes:
 
If a marked deck makes it past a deck check, how is that the judge's fault?

Let's say I'm speeding down the road and don't get caught at speed-trap #1. However, further down the road, speed-trap #2 catches me. Traffic cop #2 would ROFL if I tried to place the blame on traffic cop #1.

If you have curled cards in your deck, I highly recommend pointing them out to the deck checker if he/she misses them. Hopefully, they'll be understanding and allow proxies. Curled foils are common-place, especially in certain climates.

WOTC did a great service to the players when they produced non-foil versions of the foil cards in some of their early and final sets (Jungle, Fossil, Team Rocket, Expedition, Aquapolis, Skyridge).
 
only read the first post.

TAKE THAT LUXRAY bro!




In all seriousness though, if that was the first time that had happened, and you had no prior knowledge to the card being overly bent, you'd be cheating yourself in not taking it etc!
 
amphyrules said:
only read the first post.

TAKE THAT LUXRAY bro!




In all seriousness though, if that was the first time that had happened, and you had no prior knowledge to the card being overly bent, you'd be cheating yourself in not taking it etc!
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So you would choose to cheat your opponent? GEE what class. Even if it is the first time bring it to the attention of a judge.
 
I hate arguments on the gym brother. I don't play bent/marked cards, and have never been in a situation like that. But you, your parents, and 100 percent of the pokemon community take that prize, i'm a CHEAT for admitting it? Yes, its wrong, but its worst to cheat yourself imo..

Bring it to the attention of a judge.. lool

also, im talking about a ONE off scenario where you are granted knowledge you shouldnt otherwise have, not repeatedly abusing bent cards over the course of a tournament etc.


chill broski
 
For the record Fish...noone ever checked their cards with me before Nationals, therefore I did not OK ANY of the cards or deck in the event.

I did not change my mind.

I think a different judge had OKd the decks at events prior to Nationals, including the HJ in his own area, but this HJ did not OK the deck, and upon review of the situation with the Pokemon "big guns" the DQs were accepted as the proper penalty for these circumstances.

Don't get this post wrong. Hated to DQ the players. Alwasys do. But, when you have the situation, you have to do what you have to do. It was what I was entrusted to do. This situation DIRECTLY lead to the no written on cards rule put in place this year.

Now, round 1, another player raised his hand, playing 59 non holo, and 1 holo card and said, "I can see this card, but I have no other option but to play the holo" We looked and indeed, the card was distinguishable through no fault of the player. We proxied the card for the event.

On these DQs, there was a lot more fuzz in some of the situations, be every situation was reviewed by AT LEAST one outside judge, myself (as HJ), and one of the leaders of TPCi.

Viince
 
meganium45 said:
For the record Fish...noone ever checked their cards with me before Nationals, therefore I did not OK ANY of the cards or deck in the event.

I did not change my mind.

I think a different judge had OKd the decks at events prior to Nationals, including the HJ in his own area, but this HJ did not OK the deck, and upon review of the situation with the Pokemon "big guns" the DQs were accepted as the proper penalty for these circumstances.

Don't get this post wrong. Hated to DQ the players. Alwasys do. But, when you have the situation, you have to do what you have to do. It was what I was entrusted to do. This situation DIRECTLY lead to the no written on cards rule put in place this year.

Now, round 1, another player raised his hand, playing 59 non holo, and 1 holo card and said, "I can see this card, but I have no other option but to play the holo" We looked and indeed, the card was distinguishable through no fault of the player. We proxied the card for the event.

On these DQs, there was a lot more fuzz in some of the situations, be every situation was reviewed by AT LEAST one outside judge, myself (as HJ), and one of the leaders of TPCi.

Viince
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Vince,

I know you weren't asked about it... that is why I asked about if they knew why you changed your mind... you didn't because you weren't aware of it :thumb:

That is the issue I had with the statement... you and I both know the entire situation and to whom this player is referring.. however YOU were the HJ of Masters at Nats. This is why I LOVE it when players don't have/know the entire story and try to argue it :wink:

Fish
 
meganium45 said:
I know Fish, just trying to clarify.

We handled some elite tough problems elitely that weekend.

Vince
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And that, my friends, is called "Team Judging"...

We have each others back!

We clarify our statements in Public and Private so that the collective "Players" understand where the collective "Judges" are coming from....

Great Times Vince!:biggrin:

Fish
 
DQs are no longer available for the Marked Cards - Major penalty, except in the case where the penalty is elevated for repeat infractions (ie., the player is known to have used Marked Card at previous events), or there are extenuating circumstances.

DQs for Mark Cards - Major will become less-frequent this season at Tier 2 events, and should be near-nil at Tier 1 events.
 
DQs are available for marked cards if it rises to the level of cheating.

For "inadverdant" marks, no immidiate DQ.

For intentional marks done to get an advantage, it could rise to the level of cheating and still be a DQ.

I am thankful we never have to deal with the idiocy we had at Nationals this year.

Vince
 
meganium45 said:
DQs are available for marked cards if it rises to the level of cheating.
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Yeah, but that's a different penalty. :tongue:

I'm talking about the unintential case of marked cards. For those, DQs shouldn't be considered except as I mentioned in my previous post.
 
evil psyduck said:
Another nonsense post. Have you read the whole thread? It can be proxied. How much would that cost ? Not a thing. I am sure most people have extra energy they would let the person use. Write the name of the warped card on the energy and put it in your deck Keep the warped card next to your deck face down until you use the proxy. Real simple isn't it.
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Only nonsense if you don't know the tournament rules. As has been stated, proxies are illegal unless made by the judge.
 
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