Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

How Late Is Too Late In Tournament Play?

dave321

dave321

<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
So I'm sure you guys are familliar with the style of play in Tournaments... unlike friendly games, where you can revoke things if you're prompt enough, once you have made your move in tournament play it's pretty much common knowledge that unless your opponent is REALLY nice, they're probably not going to let you take anything back.

So I'm wondering, what does everyone consider to be the point when the move has been undisputably estabished? I'm wondering about:

a) Energy Attaches
(Is the move final when they take their hand off? When they announce where they're going to place the energy?)

b) Deck Searches
(When the pokemon/energy they've selected have been removed from the deck? Only once the deck has been shuffled?)

c) Retreat
(If they announce retreat can they take it back before discarding energy? Or is it final once they even mention retreating?)

Just wanted to see everyone's opinion of when moves become too late to revoke, as I think it could be pretty invaluable for tournament play - of course everyone should think their moves through and not announce things they haven't decided on, but just as an informational buffer.
 
a) It's like a move in chess - when they've taken their hand off of the card, thus attaching the energy.

b) When they move the card out of the deck.

c) When they announce the retreat.

Although, most people tend to be a little lenient towards opponents with these kind of things.
 
I think it's only too late if I start my turn, or that you get information that could potentially make the decision for you (e.g., searching through your deck and finding out all your stuff is prized), otherwise you should be able to take back. Also if I cannot remember whether you did something or not then you can't take it back. But otherwise I think people should give leeway on this and not be rule Nazis.
 
In my opinion for 'a' and 'c' it's when the action has been completed and you've taken your hands off of the card. For 'b' though, I believe it's actually been ruled that a search isn't finished until you've begun to shuffle. So pulling cards out and then saying "wait, I'll get this instead" is fine so long as you haven't begun shuffling, which ends the search.
 
It is when you start to shuffle your deck, that the search is over. You can switch any card found in the deck, until you have initiated the shuffle, then ur all done.
 
I thought it was until you offered the deck to your opponent to cut...?

For example, I play a Roseanne's and grab a Hoppip and Grass Energy. I start to shuffle. As I am shuffling, I decide that I want a Luxray GL instead of the Hoppip, so I believe that I can go into my deck and switch the Hoppip for the Luxray GL because I haven't offered the deck to my opponent to cut.
 
There is an official rule from POP concerning b), and that is that a search is considered final once the player begins shuffling their deck.

a) has no such official guidance (sadly), but personally I do not support the "oh I still have a finger on it" form of play. If you take an Energy card and attach it to a Pokemon, I would consider it attached at that point, even if your hand is still on it. You are supposed to consider your move before starting to make it. (For more reasons why I think this way, look up "string bet" in poker.)

For c), once you have declared a game action, you must carry it out. See above.

Obviously, having your opponent's permission obviates all of the above.
 
Is it against the rules to search for my cards using Roseanne's Research, take a Horsea and a Water, shuffle, and then go back into my deck to switch Horsea with Uxie if my opponent is willing?
 
Qwachansey said:
Is it against the rules to search for my cards using Roseanne's Research, take a Horsea and a Water, shuffle, and then go back into my deck to switch Horsea with Uxie if my opponent is willing?
Click to expand...

Nothing is against the rules to take back if your opponent is willing to allow it.
Within reason, of course.
You can't change the rules of the game, for instance.
 
PokePop said:
Nothing is against the rules to take back if your opponent is willing to allow it.
Within reason, of course.
You can't change the rules of the game, for instance.
Click to expand...

If my opponent suggest we play the game without calculating weakness and I agree, am I not allowed to?
 
In order to promote a healthy spirit of the game environment, I always say "when your opponent puts the deck down and offers the cut.

There's just SO MUCh *shuffle*..then... "wait".. *looks at hand*.. "no, this one. Would you like to cut"
ALSO, alot of us fumble with cards while we're thinking and the entire concept of "shuffle" can become a grey area.

So, I just promote the concession of allowing the opponent to finalize his/her decision at the offering at the cut rather than the shuffle.
 
Rogue Archetype said:
In order to promote a healthy spirit of the game environment, I always say "when your opponent puts the deck down and offers the cut.

There's just SO MUCh *shuffle*..then... "wait".. *looks at hand*.. "no, this one. Would you like to cut"
ALSO, alot of us fumble with cards while we're thinking and the entire concept of "shuffle" can become a grey area.

So, I just promote the concession of allowing the opponent to finalize his/her decision at the offering at the cut rather than the shuffle.
Click to expand...
POP doesn't make very many statements about these kinds of things, so when they do make one, I pay attention.
They have ruled that shuffling the deck ends the search.
I see no reason to ignore their guidance.
 
IDK, I'm usually fine with allowing my opponent to take back pretty much any move if they just performed it.

For example, if attached an energy card to a pokemon, but decide they wanted not to, then I'll allow them to take it back. Or if they retreat and decide not to, then I'll allow them to take it back. Even if they attach an energy card then retreat, I'll allow them to take the retreat and the energy back.

My only exception to this is if they search or draw from their deck. If they put down an energy or retreat, then draw cards or search from their deck (Claydol, Roseanne's, etc.) then ask if they can take it back, I'm going to say no.
 
If I, when about to riffle-shuffle, hold the deck halves next to each other, but then it clicks in my head that I want a different card, can I go back in or does splitting the deck and positioning the halves count as initiating the shuffle? Basically, do the halves have to actually touch each other for it to count?
 
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