Preleases running out of Promos

[psychup2034]

I guess you could say that "standard" is playing it out for the full amount of rounds.
Many PTOs (including myself) have moved to the "non-standard" model of only running 3 rounds for a prerelease regardless of the number of attendees. Since no prizes are on the line, it has been deemed acceptable to do that. But it is not standard.

Also, keep in mind that playing "only" 3 rounds allows players to play in side draft tournaments (which is mainly why I go to prereleases anymore). Otherwise, I'd have to stick it out the "full" 5 or 7 rounds to get my 2 additional packs, leaving no additional time for drafts to happen.

 

[ShadowCard]

Also, keep in mind that playing "only" 3 rounds allows players to play in side draft tournaments (which is mainly why I go to prereleases anymore). Otherwise, I'd have to stick it out the "full" 5 or 7 rounds to get my 2 additional packs, leaving no additional time for drafts to happen.

What does it say about the main event when people mainly go for the side/after draft?

 

[psychup2034]

What does it say about the main event when people mainly go for the side/after draft?

It says that the main event is less skill-intensive, as it should be. Playing a couple rounds with the new cards using a sealed-format deck is fun, but playing 5-7 rounds of it gets boring.

I've done all types of drafts, Rochester, Solomon, etc. after prereleases. I'd rather pay $20 for that than sit around a couple more rounds playing with a sealed-format deck just to wait to get 2 packs. In fact, I don't attend prereleases if I know that the TOs is going to go more than 3 or 4 rounds.

 

[PokePop]

What does it say about the main event when people mainly go for the side/after draft?

It says that Prereleases are not about competition.
They are not ALL about the competitive player.
It says that parents of young players (and the younger players, quite often) want to finish up after 3 hours or so at an event and going longer makes what was a great time into a grind for them.

Prereleases are a party.
They are a chance to get the new cards early.
They are about having a relaxed time with fellow Pokemon players, experiencing those new cards all together.
They are about getting some cool freebies.
They are about fun.
They are about getting new players into organized play in a light event.
They are about new players having an even chance, card-wise, against experience players, so they can get a taste of winning a game or two without being hopelessly outclassed.
They are about side events, if the TO offers them.

They are just about the greatest thing that TPCi had done for the entire 8-9 years that they've been running organized play that Wizards of the Coast never really got a handle on and only attempted for a few sets.

Three rounds are a perfect length to run a sealed event with random packs.
It's not a bad thing that players are ready to move on after 3 rounds.

I think that competition in the Pokemon TCG is great.
Premiere events give a great ladder of events, from BRs to Cities to States to Regionals to Nats, to Worlds, for the competitive players.
Can some competitive players get over themselves for a few moments to realize that every single Pokemon event is not focused on them all the time, exclusively?

Pokemon has a wide range of fans, from those that just buy the cards to the super competitive world champions.
Pokemon needs to offer events for as wide a range of those fans as possible.
Sure, Leagues are pretty heavily focused on the casual end and that's great.
But why push PRs into the square peg of competitiveness when it works great in the wider circle of pleasing both competitive AND casual players?

 

[P_A]

What does it say about the main event when people mainly go for the side/after draft?

That may be true 'Pop, BUT:

It also says that the main event has room for improvement. :thumb:

 

[SD PokeMom]

That may be true 'Pop, BUT:

It also says that the main event has room for improvement. :thumb:

'improvement', for who?

the newer, casual, younger, poke-parent, older sibling players?

...or the competitive tourney players who already have every OTHER series of events 'pop mentioned?

 

[P_A]

'improvement', for who?

the newer, casual, younger, poke-parent, older sibling players?

...or the competitive tourney players who already have every OTHER series of events 'pop mentioned?

why not all of the above? You seem to think improvement is not possible. Let me tell you - it's ALWAYS possible. You just need to be open to the possibilities.

 

[PokePop]

Anyway, it's a false premise.

I don't restrict participation in my draft to those that played in the PR.
99% of the players in my afterdraft also participated in the PR.

 

[P_A]

Anyway, it's a false premise.

I don't restrict participation in my draft to those that played in the PR.
99% of the players in my afterdraft also participated in the PR.

So you're saying that you would permit someone to come in later and play only in your afterdraft. That's cool. Awkward, since I doubt most PTO's would do the same, but that's my opinion only. I know of 2 for sure that wouldn't allow that.

Maybe that's a solution - to advertise 2 events, the main one first, then a secondary more competitive one to start "X" number of hours later.

 

[Jaeger]

'improvement', for who?

the newer, casual, younger, poke-parent, older sibling players?

...or the competitive tourney players who already have every OTHER series of events 'pop mentioned?

More of a general question but what is this biasis you have against the competitive player? Aren't we a portion of Pokemon tournament goers as well? Thus shouldn't we be looked at when discussing changes and improvements.

Don't get me wrong I fully understand how you have to look at "everybody" but simply ruling out competitive players I think is a bad call as well.

 

[SD PokeMom]

read 'pop's post above mine. your question can just as easily be turned around to 'what do the competitive players have against the casual players?'

is it really so horrible to have ONE event, held four times a year just for the fun of it, with no prizes on the line?

 

[NoPoke]

no one is ruling out competitive players. The event isn't tailored towards competitive players but they can still play / have fun / get the swag.

[IMO release events are the strongest marketing initiative that POP has. As such that have to target new/inexperienced players and their parents]

 

[Jaeger]

Mom: Once again I don't think you and I are on as far opposites as it seems. I agree PR's should not have additional prizes such as packs, but perhaps look into something else...like all of the undefeateds getting a "winner" stamped card or pin like they did in the past. Nothing that will add pressure or anything but something small that rewards players...this is more of a suggestion and not something I would be heart broken on either way. At the same time I agree fun should be the primary goal.

I also think a great compromise between the casual and competitive player is drafting...something I think Pokemon would look more into in the future. I find the format easier to build decks and I can also do a better job of getting commons and uncommons I want from the set. Its a bit more stuctured but at the same time still the same "fun"atmoshphere as PRs

---------- Post added 08/07/2012 at 07:57 PM ----------

no one is ruling out competitive players. The event isn't tailored towards competitive players but they can still play / have fun / get the swag.

[IMO release events are the strongest marketing initiative that POP has. As such that have to target new/inexperienced players and their parents]

That is an extremely good point.

 

[P_A]

read 'pop's post above mine. your question can just as easily be turned around to 'what do the competitive players have against the casual players?'

In answer to your question: :lol: Absolutely nothing, 'Mom. They're no competition! :lol: Sorry, just had to add a little humour there.

Not trying to be argumentative and all, but it looks like it's catching on .... that prereleases CAN be improved. That's the focus of that "other" thread. Seems we're getting off the topic of this thread and bringing the argumentative spirit over to this one. Too bad, since it doesn't have to be that way at all. To many people it looks like PTO's on one side of the fence and almost everyone else on the other. Not a good sign.

 

[ShadowCard]

It says that Prereleases are not about competition.
They are not ALL about the competitive player.
It says that parents of young players (and the younger players, quite often) want to finish up after 3 hours or so at an event and going longer makes what was a great time into a grind for them.

This has nothing to do with cutting the event short in order to do an after draft.

In fact, an afterdraft that 99% of your prerelease players play in makes it sound like they are interested in staying longer than 3 hours.

Prereleases are a party.

Yet players look forward to the afterparty more than the actual party :frown: .

PokePop, SD PokeMom, it appears you missed the point of my post completely. I'm not saying anything about the competitiveness of the event or the number of rounds. I'm saying that players are putting more focus on the after event than the main event. That is a reflection of a low opinion they have for a prerelease. They don't really care about the main event--the party--it is what happens after the party that they are interested in.

If you want to wrap that in a competition perspective, players wanting to play in a booster draft afterward could be a symptom that they are seeking a more competitive event to play in using the new cards that a prerelease does not satisfy. PokePop said 99% of his prerelease players also play in the booster draft. Are there prizes for those booster drafts? If so, that's a lot of players looking to play in a more competitive format.

is it really so horrible to have ONE event, held four times a year just for the fun of it, with no prizes on the line?

Don't we have league for that, only the players don't have to settle for 4 times a year because most leagues are weekly?

 

[tutti]

99% of the players in his draft were playing in the prerelease, not the other way around.

...did the other thread spill over into this one?

 

[Charranitar]

I don't think it's good for Pokemon to not have any sealed events that are meant to be competitive. Maybe they could do one weekend of non-competitive pre-releases where you just get your 8 packs as you do now, the promo, and the deck box, followed by a second weekend of pre-relases where you get 8 packs and none of the side products, but plus the prize support of a booster box for first, half box for second, and 1/4 box for 3rd/4th.

I would venture to guess the second weekend would have much higher attendance than the first weekend. Contrary to the belief that some seem to have, I think a lot of new players and less skilled players would really like a chance at a box. Lesser skilled players will probably never win significant prizes in a Premier Event, maybe win a couple of packs at a Battle Roads if they're lucky, but most can't even do that. Having an event series where lesser skilled players would be on more even footing for playing into the prize support would probably really appealing to these players, while also being appealing to competitive players who would hope to use their skill advantage to try to take some of these tournaments, even if they don't necessarily pull the best cards compared to other players.

 

[Jaeger]

I don't think it's good for Pokemon to not have any sealed events that are meant to be competitive. Maybe they could do one weekend of non-competitive pre-releases where you just get your 8 packs as you do now, the promo, and the deck box, followed by a second weekend of pre-relases where you get 8 packs and none of the side products, but plus the prize support of a booster box for first, half box for second, and 1/4 box for 3rd/4th.

I would venture to guess the second weekend would have much higher attendance than the first weekend. Contrary to the belief that some seem to have, I think a lot of new players and less skilled players would really like a chance at a box. Lesser skilled players will probably never win significant prizes in a Premier Event, maybe win a couple of packs at a Battle Roads if they're lucky, but most can't even do that. Having an event series where lesser skilled players would be on more even footing for playing into the prize support would probably really appealing to these players, while also being appealing to competitive players who would hope to use their skill advantage to try to take some of these tournaments, even if they don't necessarily pull the best cards compared to other players.

The amount of cheating when a box involved basically puts it out of the question.

 

[bullados]

ShadowCard: You missed a word in there. "Competitive players". Every one of your references ti "Players" is actually a reference to "Competitive players".

And, like Tutti said, you got Pop's point backwards. I thought that 75% retention was pretty darn good, and I think Pop thinks the same. But that almost everybody in the Draft also plays in the Prerelease says a lot more about the popularity of the Pres.

 

[ShadowCard]

The PR happens first, then the draft. Let me know if I understand this statement correctly,

99% of the players in my afterdraft also participated in the PR.

If PokePop has 100 players in the PR, 99 of them stayed for in the draft. Is that correct?

If so, the point about time is null because the overwhelming majority of players who played in the PR showed little sign that +1hr of a new event would stress their schedules any more than +1hr caused by a 4th and 5th round would have.

If the afterdraft has prizes, it shows that the players would prefer to make time in their schedules for an event that has prizes instead of playing an additional 2 rounds that have no benefit.

That players base a decision on attending a prerelease on whether or not there is an afterdraft means that they value the afterdraft more than the prerelease. It is not the party that attracts them but instead the activity after the party.