BRAutumn: no top cut

[TheDarkTwins]

This thread is a disgrace. I'm am abhorred at the amount of negativity and conjecture by players. There are a lot more of logistics that go into stuff. Am I positive that Dan would have loved to give us all the info, yes. However, they get hamstrung with logistics. It is the adage of killing the messenger. You don't do that. They have more power, but thinking that they control everything, is unwise. They have been more than willing to take our opinions into account. I can't even begin the amount of times that they have changed the rules because we asked.

A few that they have changed because we asked are -

We wanted 40 minute rounds because of GG.
We wanted +X turns for tournaments.
We wanted them to give out more invites, at the expense of not giving out as many free trips.
We wanted cool playmats.
We wanted a Champion Points system for Worlds.
When they banned Japanese Cards, we asked to have a year grace period, which they gave us.

This is just some of the things that TPCi has done. Anything that they had some power over changing, they have. There are things, like Battle Roads and Worlds Invite Structure that is WAY more complicated that those. I don't know why people think they do a horrible job. I know I've given them grief, but that doesn't mean you don't argue your point in a respectful manner. They deserve that. Sometimes they will agree with you, but at least you are doing it the right way, rather than insulting everyone left and right and going about discuss it the wrong way. We have had plenty of issues in the past, but there is a right way to go about it. You should do so in a nice respectable manner, and not in a way that can be construed in a disrespectful manner. You are more likely to get a response if you are nice in the way you discuss it, rather than being rude.

Drew

 

[Kayle]

What really gets me is that I just don't see the point in getting SO worked up over this.

The information comes out when it comes out.

Biggie has made it clear that he cannot push the release any faster, as much as he'd like to.

What more could you hope to accomplish from him? He (and TCPi) is not the one to complain to anymore.

 

[Lawman]

This thread is a disgrace. I'm am abhorred at the amount of negativity and conjecture by players. There are a lot more of logistics that go into stuff. Am I positive that Dan would have loved to give us all the info, yes. However, they get hamstrung with logistics. It is the adage of killing the messenger. You don't do that. They have more power, but thinking that they control everything, is unwise. They have been more than willing to take our opinions into account. I can't even begin the amount of times that they have changed the rules because we asked.

A few that they have changed because we asked are -

We wanted 40 minute rounds because of GG.
We wanted +X turns for tournaments.
We wanted them to give out more invites, at the expense of not giving out as many free trips.
We wanted cool playmats.
We wanted a Champion Points system for Worlds.
When they banned Japanese Cards, we asked to have a year grace period, which they gave us.

This is just some of the things that TPCi has done. Anything that they had some power over changing, they have. There are things, like Battle Roads and Worlds Invite Structure that is WAY more complicated that those. I don't know why people think they do a horrible job. I know I've given them grief, but that doesn't mean you don't argue your point in a respectful manner. They deserve that. Sometimes they will agree with you, but at least you are doing it the right way, rather than insulting everyone left and right and going about discuss it the wrong way. We have had plenty of issues in the past, but there is a right way to go about it. You should do so in a nice respectable manner, and not in a way that can be construed in a disrespectful manner. You are more likely to get a response if you are nice in the way you discuss it, rather than being rude.

Drew

I have run out of thanks for the day, but this post nails it dead on! Thx Drew! This is a sampling issues where the players and PTOs have discussed things online and in person w/ OP Brass and they have listened and made changes/adjustments.

Keith

 

[Mykel]

Something that really gets on my nerves, is that I'm honestly seeing more people being quick to call the thread a disgrace, and say that the community has devolved into something terrible, than there are people actually posting negative or rude things. There's several posts in this thread starting from the last CP announcement that are either: 1) well written and thought out, supporting the reasons why a portion of the player base is frustrated, or 2) Many others who don't write anything that's necessarily discussion material, but it's a non-harmful, non-attacking, "I agree that I'm frustrated about this." Yes, there are a SMALL amount of those posts that are rude (I'm speaking from when CP points were announced), but I find it even more rude that all these seemingly well-established members seem to be (in my opinion, based on what I read) just jumping into discussion, saying how the whole thread is an attack on the messenger, and saying everyone who voices their concern to be some self-entitled spoiled brat. I'm new here, but I find it really hurtful to see members acting like this.

People know that it's not the messengers fault. They're not angry with the messenger. While I preferred that there was no messenger at all, I understand that some people like to get those tiny pieces of information when they can, so I guess I'll just be silent on that. But that doesn't mean people can't voice their opinion of the company on this open forum, when they feel something is wrong. Saying something about the company doesn't mean it's a complaint to whoever has an NDA, asking for information. It's, I wonder why this stuff isn't OFFICIALLY released by the company yet, not leaked/told to us in some forum thread by someone. Lastly, just because a few people address this issue in a way you don't like doesn't mean you can just insult the entire community here, calling it as an 'abhorred amount of negativity', or a 'disgrace', or 'not the community that it used to be.' Insulting EVERYONE like that (because it is an insult to EVERYONE), based off of a few select posts, when people are making LEGITIMATE discussion in the thread (even if not everyone is), is definitely not a thing to do. How's YOU insulting the rest of the thread while stating things we already know and understand (and don't say we clearly don't based on the thread, because I can see from many posts that we do) contributing to the discussion? It's not.

 

[tinox6]

Something that really gets on my nerves is honestly seeing more people being quick to call the thread a disgrace and say that the community has devolved into something terrible

We must have all been playing around too much with that newly released Devolution spray..........


But seriously, your post is spot on, if I had any thanks left I'd use one. I've mentioned a few times that just because a few posts are rude that those who share the same opinion, yet are not rude, should not have their opinions discounted.....and yet that voice in this matter seems to be ignored....

 

[Kayle]

For my part, I have nothing to say to those people with strong, civil voices and arguments, because I 100% agree with them. =\

I do believe voicing aggravation is called for (I've said it a few times), but I do think that - especially now that Biggie's spoken up - there's only so much we can or should say, that the complaints should not be directed to TCPi, and that maintaining at least a reasonable and calm attitude is still the best way to relate your concerns.

 

[P_A]

Or you could chew them out in an email - [email protected] if I remember correctly. You might actually get a reply instead of doing the public humiliation thing.

 

[Yoshi-]

Something that really gets on my nerves is honestly seeing more people being quick to call the thread a disgrace and say that the community has devolved into something terrible than there are people actually posting negative or rude things. There's several posts in this thread starting from the lasted CP announcement that are either well written and thought out supporting the reasons why a potion of the player base is frustrated, as well as many others who don't write anything that's necessarily discussion material, but it's a non-harmful, non-attacking, "I agree that I'm frustrated about this." Yes, there's a SMALL amount of those posts that are rude (I'm speaking from when CP points were announced), but I find it even more rude that all these seemingly well-established members seem to be (in my opinion, based on what I read) just jumping on the discussion, saying how the whole thread is an attack on the messenger, and saying everyone who voices their concern to be some self-entitled spoiled brat. I'm new here, but I find it really hurtful to see members acting like this.

People know that it's not the messengers fault. They're not angry with the messenger. While I preferred that there was no messenger at all, I understand that some people like to get those tiny pieces of information when they can, so I guess I'll just be silent on that. But that doesn't mean people can't voice their opinion of the company on this open forum, when they feel something is wrong. Saying something about the company doesn't mean it's a complaint to whoever has an NDA, asking for information. It's, I wonder why this stuff isn't OFFICIALLY released by the company yet, not leaked/told to us in some forum thread by someone. Lastly, just because a few people address this issue in a way you don't like doesn't mean you can just insult the entire community hear, calling it as an 'abhorred amount of negativity', or a 'disgrace', or 'not the community that it used to be.' Insulting EVERYONE like that (because it is an insult to EVERYONE), based off of a few select posts, when people are making LEGITIMATE discussion in the thread (even if not everyone is), is definitely not a thing to do. How's YOU insulting the rest of the thread while stating things we already know and understand (and don't say we clearly don't based on the thread, because I can see from many posts that we do) contributing to the discussion? It's not.

It has always been this way around here, dont bother... All Pokemon players are greedy jerks who only care about themselves and dont appreciate anything we're given, we should be thankful that we get anything at all. And we absolutly have no right to get information in time just because that would help us alot.

I think the best idea was to not anounce the rating invite structure when people kept asking for it, why should we greedy people be able to prepare / know if we had a shot at an invite ... (this is not something that anyone official would say, just the way people act around here)


@topic

Nice to atleast get some information, no one doubts that dan etc do what they can, but the fact that this kind of stuff is late really often remains. I dont care whos fault it is, I dont want to point fingers etc, I just want to point out that, no matter why / whos fault it is / etc etc, its unfortunate that this happens so often and IMO its not a way a big game like pokemon should be managed and this just should not happen.

And I think if we voice or opinion here there is a good chance that the person whos "fault" this is will hear it, will hear that we, the customers, are unsatisfied and we'd ask him to please try and fix this. Because I frankly dont believe that this is something thats absolutly impossible to fix... And I really dont care WHO that person is and even if I did I wouldnt hate him for it because I know that he doesnt do it because he likes to make people angry, but I still think it shouldt happen this way..

Or you could chew them out in an email - [email protected] if I remember correctly. You might actually get a reply instead of doing the public humiliation thing.

Wasnt one of the complains that these emails never get a reply? Just sayin^^"


@Biggie

Dont you think your reaction is pretty childish as well..? Yeah some reactions seem a bit off but I dont think its that hard to understand that people really need these informations and, although its better then nothing, your reply is still not what they were waiting for? Yes we're happy that we got that reply but this doesnt change the fact that people are angry that the information still isnt there completly a few days before brs (and br already started here in europe)

And no one in their right mind would blame you for that, Im sure that this was all you can do but you cant really expect people to be satisfied after that :/

 

[Kayle]

@Biggie

Dont you think your reaction is pretty childish as well..? Yeah some reactions seem a bit off but I dont think its that hard to understand that people really need these informations and, although its better then nothing, your reply is still not what they were waiting for? Yes we're happy that we got that reply but this doesnt change the fact that people are angry that the information still isnt there completly a few days before brs (and br already started here in europe)

And no one in their right mind would blame you for that, Im sure that this was all you can do but you cant really expect people to be satisfied after that :/

What is it about CAN'T that you people don't get?

He CAN'T say more.

He simply CAN NOT.

Why would you be upset with him for something he CAN'T do?

Being upset with the fact that we don't have the information is one thing, being upset with him for not giving you "the whole picture" is another. I'm hoping I misunderstood you.

 

[Pooka]

Even though some of the posts in this thread have been disrespectful, I hope that the guys from TPCi can look at this and see that logical, reasonable complaints have been made by several members of the community. Over the past few years, information on the season's invite structure has been released way too late. By now, everyone hoped that things have improved, but they haven't. Clearly this is going to cause frustration, and clearly this is something that needs to be improved.

As a community, we should be upset over this. Since Nintendo took over in 2003, a lot of improvements have been made, but the communication between TPCi and the player base is something that has remained poor. Whatever the reason is for this is none of our business; the only thing we want is for it to change. Hopefully we have made that very clear by now - to the point where the right people will take notice.

I am well aware that there are lots of legality issues and NDA's that get in the way, but they need to find a way around that if the game is going to keep growing. Sadly a lot of the long-time players (customers) already are fed up to the point where they are quitting the game all together, and I don't want to see that keep happening. If nothing changes, that is the unfortunate reality of where we are headed.

I love this game. Everyone posting in this thread loves this game. You have thousands of passionate, patient people that would give anything to help Pokémon thrive. Please work with us.

 

[rokman]

You have thousands of passionate, patient people that would give anything to help Pokémon thrive. Please work with us.

I would like to reiterate this point.

I'm sure I probably look like a psychopath screaming for change, but I have been patient. I didn't say a word about any of my qualms until this incident. I gave TPCI the benefit of the doubt, and allowed them time to make necessary changes.

And it never came. After an entire DECADE. It had seemed, to me, they didn't even care that they were running the company so poorly, especially with this incident. I just had enough.

 

[Cyrus]

No, perspective does lead to an extraordinary amount of good for the most loyal sections of the playing community. A lot of us can assume (or be sure of) that there's a ton of legal they need to jump through in order to get us information. But what else? Some of the most important, well thought-out decisions in the world have been made in much shorter time periods, so it's hard for us to get out the pom-poms when critical information is "late" (I say "late" because we're not entitled to the information at any given time).

No matter where you stand on this whole discussion, everybody who's a fan and customer needs to agree on one major principle:

Full, complete, final, and official information should generally be made available before a season starts. If P!P and its highers-up meet that requirement, we'll be more loyal, and their marketing purposes will ultimately be better achieved. If P!P and its highers-up don't meet that requirement, then none of those positive things will be as secure because that's really important information to an outspoken, influential minority of the fanbase (the competitor).

Of course, there are exceptions, so the clearer and more justifiable they are to us, the more acceptable they ought to be.

EDIT: Saw a post I liked on HT and wanted to quote it.

...
More than anything, I would just like to know why these things happen. Like I know that TPCI can't publicly say 'Oh, we messed up and forgot to think about CP until yesterday', but I think myself and a lot of other players would be a lot happier with the company as a whole if they were to come out the week after Worlds and say something like "Hey guys, we had a miscalculation in configuring the CP stuff, so we have to delay it a bit, also there was a small problem after Worlds that a lot of our team had to focus on. We're here to tell you that BRs will indeed have CP, but I can't give much more than that right now, sorry. Will let you know as soon as possible." Obviously too much of this would still cause frustration and I'd like to see them working on getting things done in a more efficient manner above everything else, but a few explanations would be nice. I want to legitimately know why things aren't going well for them, as I know some TPCI staff and they, the ones I know at least, all seem like hardworking people who care deeply about the game. I just don't understand.

Not assuming there was a mess-up - I just like his recommended approach.

 

[THe ONe PG 16]

We got some information. It's better we know there are some CPs than be in the dark until the morning of Sept. 1.

So how about we just be grateful and carry on until we get full info, is that not simple?

If you made plans to go to BRs already, great, there will still be CPs and your planned trip will not be in vain.

If you haven't, there is still ample time, and if there aren't many in your region or you can't seem to find the time for these BRs, we still have the added 3rd regional, and BRs in the Spring, not to mention cities and states.

Sure we all would have loved to have ALL the information, but some at this point is better than none.

So get back to testing for BRs! =]

 

[TheDancingPeanut]

"It has always been this way around here, dont bother... All Pokemon players are greedy jerks who only care about themselves and dont appreciate anything we're given, we should be thankful that we get anything at all. And we absolutly have no right to get information in time just because that would help us alot. "

I for one never meant to insinuate this at all.

I was merely saying that there's a humongous difference between forcefully making points and being personally disrespectful. Unfortunately, the tone of this thread isn't productive and it undermines the people who have been making well-reasoned arguments and well-founded complaints.

I can't speak for anyone else, but all I was trying to say is that there's a productive way to go about this issue and a counter-productive way to go about this issue, and saying that people suck and are terrible probably qualifies as the latter.

---------- Post added 08/30/2012 at 08:03 PM ----------

I also just want to add that I'm not looking for tension with anyone--just making observations. I like and respect almost everybody in this game, and even though i may disagree with some of the things stated here, I don't mean anything I say to be taken personally or directly.

 

[ChristHBK]

The way I see it, if you are going to Battle Roads u probably already mafe plans to go.. If u are waiting to find out if its worth your time then its probably not and you should skip them...

Dont make such a big deal out of it.. geez.

Posted using Tapatalk for Android

 

[Cyrus]

Players are an unpredictable lot, and could - at a moment's notice - decide to not attend an event for "any" reason. At times, my older brother and I have actually skipped tournaments at the last second and just stay home. Why give them legitimate reasons to not play?

It should be a big deal because we expect a lot out of P!P, as well as their bosses (I refuse to let them off the hook). If it isn't such a big deal, why can't we all agree that "on time" invite information comes out in full before a season starts?

 

[JandPDS]

And please tell us why you have decided to make drastic changes. For the first time EVER, there will be no Top Cut at a Première event. This is not a small change it is a huge change.

What were the problems and concerns that let you do decide that a change needed to happen in regard to Top Cuts at battle roads?

How will eliminating top cuts help mediate theses problems/issues and make things better?

If we have some understanding as to why they we can get behind the change but when you make drastic changes with no explanations it appears that you are just making changes for the sake of making changes and not necessarily trying to improve the game. No one believes that you just threw a dart at a dart board and it landed on Eliminate Top Cuts, but from our vantage point we are unable to see any difference between what you are doing and that.

I can accept any reasoning for the change, but no reason at all is very insulting. And all it ever does is lead to rumors like there will not be any championship points awarded at Battle Road events this year. Please treat the players with common courtesy and let us know why you are doing the things that you are doing. It is hard to get on board when we have no idea where the train will be going.

 

[Darkrai Trainer]

The news should have been released. Period. Hopefully TPCi sees the reaction their failure produced, and they learn from it. These kind of failures turn people away from the game.

Thank you to everyone who let their voices be heard. I must point out that I notice a pattern...those afraid to criticize TPCi are often the ones connected to them. (The judges, TOs, the personal friends.) Go figure.

 

[Kayle]

I must point out that I notice a pattern...those afraid to criticize TPCi are often the ones connected to them. (The judges, TOs, the personal friends.) Go figure.

If you were in their position, you would be reserved and professional, too.

I hope.

 

[PokePop]

Or, maybe judges, TO, and PTO have a more direct way to bring their concerns to POP and don't need to do it in public.