Suggestion for PTOs: Update round pairings and standings via your website

[ryanvergel]

It's a simple suggestion, and I think it would reduce the disorganization of players, reduce clogging of certain traffic areas, and overall reduce the length of a tournament a little bit. You also have the positives of exposure to your website, and more media access and publicity for those who aren't actually attending the tournament.

1. Reduces player disorganization. This is done by not having to go back to a pairing sheet in case you forgot, or if there was discrepancy. You can also update the round start/end times, which helps with lunch and dinner breaks and top cut breaks too.
2. Reduces the clogging of the aisles. At a big regionals or nationals, people are mashed together in the dozens or hundreds trying to read their names.
3. It reduces the effort and trouble- so many players have a smart phone, and I know I would rather refresh a page of the pairings than stand in a mass of people trying to see who I play.
4. Not having to stand in line and everything reduces the time in between rounds. Rounds start faster. It may not be much, but it adds up. Starting 2 minutes faster per round, and with 9-10 rounds at nationals adds 20-30 minutes. This could be used for longer lunch breaks or something.

--
1. PTOs- you get more exposure to your website. Put an ad up, or generate more traffic for future events.
2. Pokemon Media- now players from anywhere in the world can see the status of their favorite players and communicate results and status much more easily.





Almost every PTO has their own website. I'm sure whatever output is generated to print off the pairings could be done in a way to merely copy/paste the text into a browser. An organizer should, in theory, be able to copy the text, click the window in a browser, paste, update, and in a matter of seconds have duplicated the output method for delivering the content of round pairings, match times/ends, etc. You can do this for different age divisions, too.

Any PTOs up to the task of leading the way to more efficient, cleaner, and smoother tournaments? More publicity for your site, tournament, and players?

Maybe pokemon.com can provide PTOs with their own pages/subpages to do this if a PTO either didn't have their own website, or could not easily update it. I think any obstacles in the way of this can easily be overcome.

 

[SD PokeMom]

what about those of us without data plans/smartphones, or run events in venues without wi-fi?

 

[ryanvergel]

if you don't have the means to do it, then don't do it

this is just a suggestion i havent seen ANYONE do, despite many having the ABILITY to do so, but maybe not the knowledge or knowhow to do it. there are lots of people willing to provide the websites or solutions to get it working. within like 2 minutes of my posting this on facebook two people offered their services to build this sort of thing.

i know not every event will have internet access. but many do, and many organizers have internet access. in those cases, i think it would be a great idea to try to implement this.

 

[MiniWade]

what about those of us without data plans/smartphones, or run events in venues without wi-fi?

I'm assuming they will still have the pairing sheets up for those without data plans/smartphones. The idea is just to prevent people crowding everywhere.

 

[ryanvergel]

I'm assuming they will still have the pairing sheets up for those without data plans/smartphones. The idea is just to prevent people crowding everywhere.

yeah, this should work alongside paper/ink methods

this just doubles the output when available. usually, the more this idea would help, the more likely it would be to actually be implemented

the larger the event (and thus the more benefit from this implementation), the more likely it is for there to be internet access

 

[Tapin]

I'd be more than willing to help any of the TOs in my area (northern California) set something like this up. I've spent an inordinate amount of time thinking of how to solve about four of Ryan's six points from his original post; and if the TOs would be willing to do it (once they're set up, and obviously only in venues where access is available), it would solve everything I've been working on in one fell swoop.

 

[losjackal]

I've thought a lot about this, and was figuring how to make it part of PokeGym Labs.

Problem is, any mechanism to communicate pairings is not worth it. Text messages cost money (sent automatically from a central place) and can be unreliable given the cell service inside of a building and the different carriers. Same goes for a Web page...even if the PTO had Internet access to publish it, what about the player's ability to retrieve it? Especially knowing when? It would appear the savings is only the temporary crowding that happens at the printouts. That's easier to solve with more printouts, but PTOs barely want to bother with that. (Sorry for generalizing, I know space is often a constraint, but it's truly the easiest remedy.)

I'd agree that the biggest stages (Regionals, Nationals) would stand to benefit the most, but given how technology works I can envision people standing around with their smartphones waiting to get a page to load, rather than just walking up to a sheet of paper. I don't think significant time savings would be had by the end of the day, and in fact you're introducing more copies of the "truth" by having people perhaps going to the wrong table because they are looking at the wrong information on their smartphone.


Standings, however, could be interesting. Do most PTOs bother with standings in between rounds? Jimmy Ballard doesn't, but perhaps because he usually has really accurate computer entry. Worlds has intra-round standings, so I imagine POP could do it for Nationals if they so desired. So the opportunity is for Regionals and States and Cities, if people care that much.

 

[MiniWade]

I do think this is a great idea. I will definitely try to make this happen with my PTO's. However I don't think this idea is really that needed, as having the pairings up hasn't been much trouble to anyone. And it runs fine, but this would speed things up. It's just not necessary to be implanted, I mean if I have my smartphone and am at the event I would be/people can just be like i'll just walk up and look off the pairing sheets no need to use my phone that may take a small amount of time to reload the page. Nonetheless idea is good.

 

[Mystery Thing]

You would also need to either make sure that none of your Masters are 15-17 years old, or get all of their parents to sign off on waivers before the event starts. Yay for posting minors' information online!

Don't get me wrong, from a logistics standpoint, of course it's a good idea. But from a legal standpoint? Not so much.

Standings, however, could be interesting. Do most PTOs bother with standings in between rounds? Jimmy Ballard doesn't, but perhaps because he usually has really accurate computer entry. Worlds has intra-round standings, so I imagine POP could do it for Nationals if they so desired. So the opportunity is for Regionals and States and Cities, if people care that much.

Don't confuse standings with match records. Match records sometimes get posted, yes. Standings never do.

 

[Tapin]

Text messages cost money (sent automatically from a central place)

I love the idea of texting pairings, but the biggest issues I've run into don't involve cost (to the TOs) -- every major carrier has an email gateway. The bigger issues I've had here are getting peoples' phone numbers or email addresses into the system.

and can be unreliable given the cell service inside of a building and the different carriers. Same goes for a Web page...

I agree that cell service can be spotty or nonexistent. I don't think that's a disqualification.

even if the PTO had Internet access to publish it, what about the player's ability to retrieve it? Especially knowing when?

This one's easy. Post it to "the site", print it out. When the TO announces "Pairings are up!", or when people see a crowd forming around the printout, they'll bring out their phones.

It would appear the savings is only the temporary crowding that happens at the printouts

I don't think that's all that it would be useful for. Two examples:

- I'd like to remember who the player I played in Round 3 at Oregon States last year was, because they gave me a great piece of advice. If the pairings were kept somewhere, I wouldn't have to shrug and say "oh well".

- Frequently, I find myself not able to attend the top cut of events because I have kids to ferry around; however, my friends are in cut, and I'm curious how they're doing. I could wait a week and ask 'em at league, but I'd prefer to know as soon as possible.

There are more, but this post is long enough already.

 

[ryanvergel]

I've thought a lot about this, and was figuring how to make it part of PokeGym Labs.

Problem is, any mechanism to communicate pairings is not worth it.
Disagree. Saving time and energy with minimal effort is totally worth it.
Text messages cost money (sent automatically from a central place) and can be unreliable given the cell service inside of a building and the different carriers.
This was not a suggestion, so it's kind of a strawman. You're adding on a suggestion I didn't make to try to reduce the strength of my suggestion. No thanks.

Same goes for a Web page...even if the PTO had Internet access to publish it, what about the player's ability to retrieve it?
Uh, a smartphone with edge, 3g, 4g, etc? If they aren't able to retrieve it, it isn't a LOSS, it's just LESS GAIN.
Especially knowing when?
When pairings go up, refresh your smartphone. Not that difficult. Making a mountain out of a mole hill.
It would appear the savings is only the temporary crowding that happens at the printouts. That's easier to solve with more printouts, but PTOs barely want to bother with that. (Sorry for generalizing, I know space is often a constraint, but it's truly the easiest remedy.)
More printouts cost more money, more time, and more effort. Instead of printing out a second set, why not just upload it. No ink, no paper, no print time, no physical limitations.

I'd agree that the biggest stages (Regionals, Nationals) would stand to benefit the most, but given how technology works I can envision people standing around with their smartphones waiting to get a page to load, rather than just walking up to a sheet of paper.
Yes, this is exactly what I want. This is the whole idea. First, you don't just walk up to the sheet of paper. You walk up to a crowd of 200 people and wait for people to slowly scan their names and move away. So, that's a little bit of a poor description of the actual events. Second, yes, being a parent with a smartphone to coordinate their kid, or being able to stand or congregate in a place that isn't a mass of people is good. You can go to the bathroom, eat a snack, talk with friends instead of huddling with hundreds of sweaty, smelly people.

I don't think significant time savings would be had by the end of the day, and in fact you're introducing more copies of the "truth" by having people perhaps going to the wrong table because they are looking at the wrong information on their smartphone.
Totally and utterly disagree with this. Did you play in nationals last year? We had over a thousand players. Netx year we should break 1028 and may get ten rounds. If you shave 2 minutes off in between rounds, because you don't have to huddle people together, you add 20 minutes. At the very least, you save the collective time of all those players. If 300 people save 30 seconds a round by not going to a sheet of paper, then this is a good accomplishment.

Also, your truth comment makes no sense whatsoever. If I have my smartphone, and it clearly says "table 28", how does that make it MORE likely to add confusion? I don't see any logic from anything you said that last line. Having more copies of the data reduces mistakes and errors. It's very illogical to argue against this fact.


Standings, however, could be interesting. Do most PTOs bother with standings in between rounds? Jimmy Ballard doesn't, but perhaps because he usually has really accurate computer entry. Worlds has intra-round standings, so I imagine POP could do it for Nationals if they so desired. So the opportunity is for Regionals and States and Cities, if people care that much.
No, the opportunity is for any event. Taking 3-5 seconds to upload the information to a website is oftentimes effortless. It saves collective time, makes things more organized and less cluttered. This is a benefit for any tournament.

Responses in red.

I feel like you're one of those people who always has to be a contrarian. A vehement supporter of TPCi and any institution, even if they do something wrong or drop the ball. I've read a lot of your posts, and you consistently add virtually nothing to the conversation. And I should have expected someone like you to come along. Terrible arguments, and of course against anything leading to progress. Typical.:nonono:

 

[solo59486]

I like this idea actually!
It would be cool to have something like this except for the other tournaments.

This way my mom can also see how I'm doing while she is doing something else and she doesn't have to keep calling or txting me when I'm in the middle of a round...

Although I see no point in doing this for a BR but for maybe cities and above IMO.

 

[tutti]

For what it's worth, you don't need the Internet to do this. You just need a laptop with a web server and a wireless router. Without Internet access, the router will still set up a local network, allowing anyone connected to it to connect to the laptop's web server using the local IP. Even if you do have Internet access, this doesn't go through the Internet, avoiding the connectivity and privacy issues.

 

[Mystery Thing]

For what it's worth, you don't need the Internet to do this. You just need a laptop with a web server and a wireless router. Without Internet access, the router will still set up a local network, allowing anyone connected to it to connect to the laptop's web server using the local IP. Even if you do have Internet access, this doesn't go through the Internet, avoiding the connectivity and privacy issues.

Wouldn't stop somebody walking by the venue and grabbing the signal, so you would still need waivers. I suppose you could password protect it, but I'm not anywhere near enough of a pro on the legal side to know if that would suffice. I somewhat doubt it, though.

Also, the routing infrastructure required to get hundreds of people onto a single local network simultaneously with any degree of consistency is far outside of the budget range of 99% of PTOs.

 

[User Name]

Amigo Spiele, the german distributor for the Pokemon and Yugioh TCG made exactly what you ask for. This is what we had in german pokemon and yugioh nationals this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YaAJkfEVKvk

 

[losjackal]

I feel like you're one of those people who always has to be a contrarian. A vehement supporter of TPCi and any institution, even if they do something wrong or drop the ball. I've read a lot of your posts, and you consistently add virtually nothing to the conversation. And I should have expected someone like you to come along. Terrible arguments, and of course against anything leading to progress. Typical.:nonono:

Wow, I'm pretty insulted, thanks a lot. Did you also notice that I built and maintain the State-by-State list of tournaments, you know, to make it easier for the players? As I said, I've thought about how to make a tool like this work, and especially get PTOs to using it, but it's worthwhile in any discussion to present the possible reasons why a PTO wouldn't opt to do so.

Text messages cost money (sent automatically from a central place) and can be unreliable given the cell service inside of a building and the different carriers.

This was not a suggestion, so it's kind of a strawman. You're adding on a suggestion I didn't make to try to reduce the strength of my suggestion. No thanks.

Yeah, you did make this suggestion on the HeyFonte Facebook thread which led me here. You said:

Text message pairings

yeahhhh, thats a little more intensive
that would be ******* awesome though
kendle!

Yeah or just an app lol

You even "Liked" my comment later in that thread. I don't understand the sudden hate.

 

[tutti]

Wouldn't stop somebody walking by the venue and grabbing the signal, so you would still need waivers. I suppose you could password protect it, but I'm not anywhere near enough of a pro on the legal side to know if that would suffice. I somewhat doubt it, though.

Also, the routing infrastructure required to get hundreds of people onto a single local network simultaneously with any degree of consistency is far outside of the budget range of 99% of PTOs.

Protecting the connection with a key (above WEP strength) posted inside the venue should be enough for security.

You... probably shouldn't try this with hundreds of people intending to connect to a single router. I haven't tried this myself (I do however know it's possible in theory), but I'd imagine you'd be fine with anywhere shy of 50 connections, assuming your router allows that many, and as long as not everyone tries to connect to the server at the same time. Between 50 and 100 would probably be stretching it, but could work with a good router. I didn't really think of these huge events though, I was thinking more about the midsize ones scattered around the world in remote locations without Internet access.

 

[losjackal]

When TPCi posted Round after Round of pairings and match records on the Worlds web site, how did they get around the legal issue of minors' information then? If I recall correctly, it might be enough to just transform the last names into an initial.

 

[King Piplup]

When TPCi posted Round after Round of pairings and match records on the Worlds web site, how did they get around the legal issue of minors' information then? If I recall correctly, it might be enough to just transform the last names into an initial.

I believe part of accepting Worlds invitations is waiving those rights, but I cannot attest to that. It's worth noting that TPCI only lists last initials on the Competitors page, the "image" of pairings is the only location of a last name (and for this reason, would not be findable by any Internet bots).

 

[Tapin]

and as long as not everyone tries to connect to the server at the same time. Between 50 and 100 would probably be stretching it, but could work with a good router. I didn't really think of these huge events though, I was thinking more about the midsize ones scattered around the world in remote locations without Internet access.

The difference between a "good" and a "bad" off-the-shelf SOHO router is going to be around 10-20 people; a "bad" one will only support ~5 connections before it starts getting confused, and a "good" one will support ~20-30 (while incorrectly claiming a much larger number). And the price jump to a commercial-grade router isn't going to be within the budget.

The good news is that your average load will be tiny; the bad news is that every time it spikes ("Pairings are up!"), it'll be anybody's guess as to whether or not it'll fail.

Still and all, it would be fun to try it.