Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!

[ProHawk]

First, I just want to go on record that PMysterious is smarter than he looks. He recently was the deciding factor in our most recent game for a townie win and was able to accurately pick out the correct scum target in two successive LYLO days. While I don't agree with his current angle, I wouldn't just dismiss him to the side.

This V

ProHawk: Yes, scorri has discovered thanks to eclipse point this out that Crimsonsky is a player on Serenes as well so that could explain some of that.

And This V

scorri would also like to talk about Crimsonsky telling people to not target him at night. scorri sees no problem with this as it is a common practice on Serenes Forest where she usually plays mafia.

Crimsonsky plays WW/mafia games on Serenes Forest where roles like the one he is claiming is common practice. This has huge implications with Crimsonsky's claim in that he would know exactly how to gambit this role successfully. This combined with the potential "I saved our Power Roles from nastiness" cred he would get (and has gotten) have me more than slightly worried. This fact (his experience) alone bumps the probability of his claim from being concerned townie to scum gambit up a few notches.

I don't know about any of you, but I have only seen retaliatory roles take effect when death is triggered and not based on being a target alone. The problem is with this claim we will never be able to target him at all to find out any true information. Scum or Town, true or not, this makes Crimsonsky very dangerous to keep around.

No.

We all should be hunting wolves. That is obvious. But what drove you and Sheepbro to state the blatantly obvious before the game started?

Statements like those (similar in vein to Tables' "one usually sees two scum factions at those numbers.") can be mis/leading to members of the village, subconsciously telling them what you want them to believe.

Really? So lets see... am I scum trying to pretend that I like hunting, or am I anxious town trying to actually enunciate what I love? All I see is a ball of uncertainty WIFOM you are trying to throw into the discussion. I can see scum motivation here.

Luster isn't new to this game.

And he doesn't understand Scum-101? I may have to re-read him when he provides more content.

@H_D - Post #379 is the scum-hunting that we need to see. I completely disagree with your angle, but at least I know where you stand. My read on you is slipping, but time will tell.

Unvote: Human Destroyer

Now onto the real meat of the post.

Vegitalian

Wow. I think I see what you are doing here. Before I start consider the following question.

How close are we to revealing roles/alignments?

I am agreed with Absol and DC725. Claimed is a very strong word. I myself have not claimed anyone as town, but have them on my list of reads as town. It's important to note that reads can and should change as more information presents itself. You were also very liberal in your use of defended claims.

So I tried to come up with a town-motivated reason as to why you made post #385, but I can't.

If you were town, why not just keep the notes to yourself until it would show a useful connection? We won't see flips for quite a while.

Then I realized that you were making an early association with Absoltrainer. He is the only person on your list that you listed with conflicting actions.

a) if you're a wolf, you're definitely going to contest my post if you tried to defend a fellow wolf
b) if you're a townie, you either backed a wolf without good reason, or you have nothing to worry about

If you think I wrongly put you on my list, you can quote your post and explain your reasoning behind it (it's a long list, I'm not going to quote all of the posts) - chances are that's a bad idea though.

Ahh, yes, your intentions made clear.

Absol's points regarding your post are dead on. He hit the nail on the head.


Vote: Vegitalian

 

[Kayle]

yay I'm not crazy for thinking vegitalian is suspicious. Gotta stop putting off homework and stuff now, but I thought I'd do this much at least.

got my eyes on you jpulice. Unvote: jpulice ;; Vote: vegitalian

Let's see where this takes us!

 

[vegitalian]

yay I'm not crazy for thinking vegitalian is suspicious. Gotta stop putting off homework and stuff now, but I thought I'd do this much at least.

got my eyes on you jpulice. Unvote: jpulice ;; Vote: vegitalian

Let's see where this takes us!

No, you are crazy - you're just not the only one

Hop on the bandwagon. Everyone else please note that Kayle and ProHawk have been extremely supportive of each other, so it's not a surprise that they're banding together. I'm also going to see where this goes, but for now I'm going to retract my vote.

Unvote: Diaz

 

[Absoltrainer]

No, you are crazy - you're just not the only one

Hop on the bandwagon. Everyone else please note that Kayle and ProHawk have been extremely supportive of each other, so it's not a surprise that they're banding together. I'm also going to see where this goes, but for now I'm going to retract my vote.

Unvote: Diaz

You have yet to defend yourself in any way, shape, or form. You simply try to throw suspision on to someone else. You even did an indirect (without actually voting) OMGUS on myself AND Kayle AND Prohawk.

And you retracted your pointless and unthreatning vote for Diaz?

Get the butter out cause you're toast.

 

[DragonClyne725]

No, you are crazy - you're just not the only one

Hop on the bandwagon. Everyone else please note that Kayle and ProHawk have been extremely supportive of each other, so it's not a surprise that they're banding together. I'm also going to see where this goes, but for now I'm going to retract my vote.

Unvote: Diaz

Usually, when someone votes for you on ground of being a wolf, you don't just point fingers at whomever is voting for you and then sit back and watch what happens.

And also, ProHawk voted for you based off of his own reads combined with what Absol and myself have said. Then Kayle follows up with a vote for you, not even mentioning ProHawk's post. How is this "banding together"?

I have changed my mind: I believe I will vote for you.

Vote: Vegitalian

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't know about any of you, but I have only seen retaliatory roles take effect when death is triggered and not based on being a target alone. The problem is with this claim we will never be able to target him at all to find out any true information. Scum or Town, true or not, this makes Crimsonsky very dangerous to keep around.

I gotta agree with this. I'm still suspicious of Crimsonsky's coming out and telling nobody to target him. I myself have not heard of a role that does harm when someone merely targets them.

Angry Pointy Finger: Crimsonsky

Only time will tell what Crimsonsky's motive is. At the moment, I would suggest we abide by his wish not to be targeted at Night, just in case this is some new mechanism that does something bad to any who targets him. However, I'm keeping an eye (and a finger) pointed in Crimsonsky's direction.

 

[ProHawk]

@mod. Would you please add the voting person in your vote count?

@Mod - I second this. It's very important for voting analysis post-flip.

 

[vegitalian]

You have yet to defend yourself in any way, shape, or form. You simply try to throw suspision on to someone else. You even did an indirect (without actually voting) OMGUS on myself AND Kayle AND Prohawk.

And you retracted your pointless and unthreatning vote for Diaz?

Get the butter out cause you're toast. Go right ahead, but don't be too disappointed when I flip townie.

I defended my point - not even sure what an OMGUS is (nor do I care, really).

After some more thought, I don't think Kayle is a wolf. She has voted a ton of different people, which seems disorganized and out of character for a wolf (may be my lack of experience, but Kayle's not even on my radar now). Consequently, the link between ProHawk and Kayle is probably no more than just mutual respect for each other.

In response to ProHawk, what would be the point of me sharing notes if I were a wolf? Specifically, if I was a wolf defending SS7 and Tables (who theoretically were also wolves), what would be the point of me drawing attention to that?

How does my initial post point a finger at AbsolTrainer? It doesn't. I'm not even sure I suspect AbsolTrainer as a wolf after the performance he just gave.

 

[PikaJewel]

Explain?

Before the game started she said to me exactly 'this is going to be interesting' after she got her role she also said she was really happy with it and in the last games she has played she was town, THREE TIMES IN A ROW, so there is a good chance that in this game she isn't.

[DEL]And you are not pointing a ton of fingers, just one atm ;][/DEL]

Well me and her being sibblings we ALWAYS get along (sarcasm) the truth is, me and her tend to poke and prod at each other every where, it is unavoidable:smile: but we get over it.

(last post read: #407)

Alright, here's what I've got so far:

First off, here's just something that's annoying me, it's Vablakes, not Valblakes, Valbakes, or Vablake.

Next up, moo2 told me at school today that he's been having some computer problems, and so he hasn't been able to keep close track of the thread. I'll ask him tomorrow when he'll be able to get back on/if he needs a replacement or not (yep, the replacement might need a replacement :/)

I haven't been able to post too much, either, as I have school, and then homework on top of that. And I don't have a cell phone, so if I'm out and about, my 3DS is my only hope. Sorry for being kind of inactive. :/ I really do try my best.

Now on to Vablakes:

Vablakes truly is a new player at this, he wasn't playing nooby for the gambit (if it really was a gambit, that is). The only game he's played that's at all like Werewolf is Virus on 6p.

On to the gambit itself. I think that he really was trying to play the gambit, but as a new player, he treated Cabd's/SS7's Werewolf guide as the instructions on how to play the game. I'm not saying that the Compendium is bad, I'm just saying that it's not mandatory to play the game, and everything listed there isn't required to play the role that you have. (I really don't want that statement to come off as offensive to SS7 & Cabd, as I love the work that you two put into it. I read the thing myself, and personally loved it. I just want to say that you don't need to follow everything it says, that's all)

Now, just because I believe that he truly was trying to pull of that gambit doesn't mean I don't think that he might be a wolf (does that make sense?). He could've been coached into using it, trying to make him look pro-town (obviously that didn't work). Or maybe I'm wrong, and he was just coached into using that as a cover-up.

I also want to point out that, in this post:

he tries to make send SMP88 into a guilt trip. :/

All in all, I'm sitting on the fence about Vablakes. I really don't know what my stance is on his plays. As of now, he's just a suspicion of mine. I don't think I'm going to place a vote on him quite yet.


Next up,



UNVOTE: Vegitalian

Didn't want to forget about that before I decide on my vote lol.




Trying to crumb something, Sheepbro? Are you trying to suggest that you're a vig?

Maybe I'm just overthinking things. . . .



Well, this isn't Serenes, and on both here and 6p, mass-reads like that are quite helpful. Oftentimes townies have suspicious players give their ISO's to try and tell if they're buddying up with people and such.




In this quote, I see a lot of exaggerating people's posts. I did defend Vablakes to an extent (as I did above), but I never said that I didn't think he could be scum. It's kind of the point of the game. We don't know.




Why do you and JQ seem to keep going at each other? It seems that, just because you two are sisters, you're beating at each other. :/ Really, guys?





Well, this is what I've got as of now. I think I'll

Like I said before, we are the opposite sides of the same coin ( Not to mention I may have overreacted a little. forgeting that this is supposed to be fun.) we have half fights and stuff like that but we can be really good friends in the end.

VOTE: Vablakes

, but once I see the posts that were bound to ninja me, I might change my mind.

Hopefully I'll be a bit more active and a bit more helpful. :smile:

...So, just because I Fos you, I'm suddenly suspicious? If you think that I am acting suspicious, please point out why.


Well, part of it is because I want her to realize right off the bat that I am not going to be easy on her because she is my sister and this is her first game.
The other part is that she really is acting suspicious in my mind. Her post before this one was full of really ridiculous arguments, and she hasn't bothered to even try to match against any of the points shown to her.

Yes:biggrin:

No, you are crazy - you're just not the only one

Hop on the bandwagon. Everyone else please note that Kayle and ProHawk have been extremely supportive of each other, so it's not a surprise that they're banding together. I'm also going to see where this goes, but for now I'm going to retract my vote.

Unvote: Diaz

This sounds like a case of a bad attitude, but I have to admit he has a point with the whole buddy buddy thing.

 

[Absoltrainer]

How does my initial post point a finger at AbsolTrainer? It doesn't. I'm not even sure I suspect AbsolTrainer as a wolf after the performance he just gave.

Oh when did that change?

I'm not going to outright vote you (yet), but your overreaction seems a bit scummy.

 

[vegitalian]

Oh when did that change?

"I'm not even sure I suspect AbsolTrainer" doesn't imply that I'm ruling it out.

"but your overreaction seems a bit scummy." A bit scummy.

Not contradictory - I'm on the fence about you.

 

[ProHawk]

In response to ProHawk, what would be the point of me sharing notes if I were a wolf? Specifically, if I was a wolf defending SS7 and Tables (who theoretically were also wolves), what would be the point of me drawing attention to that?

Did you read my post? Your wolf-motivation was to paint Absol in a bad light subtly, but he caught on real quick.

I don't understand the whole SS7 and Tables theory thing, care to elaborate?

 

[Pikamaster]

@Mod - I second this. It's very important for voting analysis post-flip.

Yes, future vote counts will include this.

 

[Absoltrainer]

"I'm not even sure I suspect AbsolTrainer" doesn't imply that I'm ruling it out.

"but your overreaction seems a bit scummy." A bit scummy.

Not contradictory - I'm on the fence about you.

1.) You should probably worry a bit more about yourself. Your accusation of me being scummy isn't really scary right now. I have no reason to fear wolves.

2.) It does it you use the WHOLE quote, not just part of it (see bold)

How does my initial post point a finger at AbsolTrainer? It doesn't. I'm not even sure I suspect AbsolTrainer as a wolf after the performance he just gave.

Oh when did that change?

I'm not going to outright vote you (yet), but your overreaction seems a bit scummy.

Implies that you think my reaction was a bit scummy but you won't call me a wolf

the way I see it is:
a) if you're a wolf, you're definitely going to contest my post if you tried to defend a fellow wolf
b) if you're a townie, you either backed a wolf without good reason, or you have nothing to worry about

I want to go back to this post. If vegitalian is a wolf, than I would STRONGLY suggest we target Vablakes next. If vegitalian flips wolf that it would not be a stretch that he assumed Vablakes was going down was banking on Vablakes flipping wolf so he could go after me next using that as a basis.

 

[vegitalian]

Did you read my post? Your wolf-motivation was to paint Absol in a bad light subtly, but he caught on real quick.

I don't understand the whole SS7 and Tables theory thing, care to elaborate?

My initial post did not post him in a bad light - at least that was not my intention.

Ok, assume that I am a wolf:
-I list myself as defending SS7 and Tables
-I get lynched, flip wolf
-Tables and SS7 become targets

The reasoning behind posting what I posted is that one of the following scenarios take place:
a) Player X dies, flips townie... Player Y and Z that defended Player X's credibility are also revealed as likely townies and avoid the lynch vote
b) Player A dies, flips wolf... Player B and C that defended Player A have a higher likelihood of being wolves

That was my logic, and reasoning as a townie to share the information I had collected.

 

[DragonClyne725]

Firstly, PikaJewel, it would be helpful if, in the future, you bold comments you insert into posts you quote so that we can easily see where you are speaking and what is in the quote.

This sounds like a case of a bad attitude, but I have to admit he has a point with the whole buddy buddy thing.

The only way (or at least, the only way that I can see) that Kayle and ProHawk have been "buddy buddy" is the fact that both voted for vegitalian. Not much of a "buddy buddy" situation.


And, vegitalian: Calling someone scummy does imply that you suspect them.

 

[Absoltrainer]

b) Player A dies, flips wolf... Player B and C that defended Player A have a higher likelihood of being wolves

That was my logic, and reasoning as a townie to share the information I had collected.

Oh thanks, I'm glad your brought that up, let me re-quote this real-quick

the way I see it is:
a) if you're a wolf, you're definitely going to contest my post if you tried to defend a fellow wolf
b) if you're a townie, you either backed a wolf without good reason, or you have nothing to worry about

I want to go back to this post. If vegitalian is a wolf, than I would STRONGLY suggest we target Vablakes next. If vegitalian flips wolf that it would not be a stretch that he assumed Vablakes was going down was banking on Vablakes flipping wolf so he could go after me next using that as a basis.

Since you pretty much endorsed what I just said there....

 

[Sandslash7]

Really? So lets see... am I scum trying to pretend that I like hunting, or am I anxious town trying to actually enunciate what I love? All I see is a ball of uncertainty WIFOM you are trying to throw into the discussion. I can see scum motivation here.

I'm calling them like I see them. I'm not going to sit back and let something that has scum motivation slip by, but I'm going to apply pressure to read reactions.

Throwing WIFOM into the discussion would be accusing you and Sheepbro of being wolves right now, just due to that statement. I'm not doing that.

Maybe it's just how you worded this, but I'm confused. You didn't find Tables' suggestion of there being a second enemy faction "suspicious", but you were bothered by it? Doesn't being bothered by something make you suspicious?

Not necessarily. I'll note that I said "I never said Tables was suspicious." Jpulice read that into my post himself. As did you. These things are important to note.

I'll reiterate to be clear on my thoughts on Tables. I'm wary of someone plopping meta ideas into a game without specific in-game evidence (or relevant data). I'm bothered by the way he did it. Am I suspicious? I'd chose a term closer to wary. I have seen little of Tables' play and do not have much to read him on.

Though to be fair I also missed that little gem at the end of Table's post that jpulice reposted.



Vegi ~ Minus the fact that wolves go for WIFOM when they can. A wolf would be very willing to "defend" a townie to get br/townie points. Or was that your point? I'm confused as to your scenarios.

 

[jellyfisher]

There's this game, it's called werewolf. Basically, if you're a towny, the objective is to kill all the wolves. You do this by lynching them, unless you have a certain powerrole.

Oh and I didn't feel like typing: "Role received 1717171717."

Trying to crumb something, Sheepbro? Are you trying to suggest that you're a vig?

Maybe I'm just overthinking things. . . .

No. No. No.

This was NOT a good idea. Did you seriously just point out what you think might be a player crumbing a power role? Why? Why did you feel that it was necessary to do this? Seriously, if you are correct, then you might as well have just put a sign with neon lights flashing the words "Kill me!" onto Sheepbro.

You have not only potentially caused the town a great deal of harm, but you have also caused me to start to question your alignment. Last game, when I brought forward Glaceon's post that indicated that he might have been hinting that he had information that proved PM to be a townie, I also made sure I questioned him. I was trying to figure out if he had a good reason for having his beliefs that did not involve having information from a night action. Jpulice followed up on that questioning, and went even more into it then I did. With the information we received, we were able to make the most helpful night kill of the game.

It seems like you might be doing the same thing now. Now, I am not accusing you of being a wolf. In fact, I still don't have a read on you at all. I do however think that we should keep this possibility in mind when speculating on what your alignment might be.

With that being said, I do believe that you are correct in saying that you are over thinking things (assuming that you are a townie). You should consider this a warning. If I see you pointing out posts that you think might contain bread crumbs again during this game, I will do everything in my power to have you lynched.

@vegitalian: To be honest, I'm not sure what to think of your situation right now. You have done some things that could be considered wolfy, but I do not think that it is enough reason for me to vote for you yet. I do however have a question to ask you. When you made your list of the players that had defended other players, you neglected to have a link to any of the posts. If I am correct, you didn't even have a post number for any of them.

So my question is this, why didn't you have some way for everyone to access the posts that you were referring to in your post? Would it really have been that hard? After all, you already went to the trouble to look at all of the posts that could be considered defenses of other players.

I was going to post the above, but I felt I had to comment on this post as well. Some of the information in the above portion might not be consistent with the below portion of the post. So if something in my post looks a little off, it is simply because I was to lazy to correct it.

I defended my point - not even sure what an OMGUS is (nor do I care, really).

Unvote: Vablakes

Vote: vegitalian

Do you care now?

I'm not going to put up with this. Seriously, I have seen this sort of play style before. I didn't tolerate it then, and I'm certainly not going to tolerate it now. Attempting to discredit AT's argument by acting as if you couldn't care less about it does not do anything to make me want to keep you around. And if that's not the case, then perhaps you could explain what your true intents when you made that comment were. Because right now, I am only seeing evidence to support what I just said. Seriously, its not as if it is hard to Google something.

I would also like to add that just because I unvoted Vablakes does not mean that I do not think that he is no longer a good lynch option. I still believe that we should consider him for the lynch. But I also think that we should consider vegitalian as well.

 

[vegitalian]

"I want to go back to this post. If vegitalian is a wolf, than I would STRONGLY suggest we target Vablakes next. If vegitalian flips wolf that it would not be a stretch that he assumed Vablakes was going down was banking on Vablakes flipping wolf so he could go after me next using that as a basis."

Sound logic, actually. I'm not a wolf, so it doesn't apply, but I see where you're coming from. The question is, what is the reaction when I flip townie? If I get killed by the wolves and flip townie? Could draw a lot more suspicion to you. Only one way to find out, I guess.

"The only way (or at least, the only way that I can see) that Kayle and ProHawk have been "buddy buddy" is the fact that both voted for vegitalian. Not much of a "buddy buddy" situation.

And, vegitalian: Calling someone scummy does imply that you suspect them."

For your first point, there were two quotes prior to voting for me:
"Prohawk, I like your defense and your contributions and pretty much everything about your second impression. I directed some suspicion at you and you responded appropriately so gj." -Kayle
"Kayle - Leaning Town. Actively Hunting, very thoughtful." -ProHawk

Those were what I was referring to. Moot points though, now that I've had time to think about it.

 

[Kayle]

After some more thought, I don't think Kayle is a wolf. She has voted a ton of different people, which seems disorganized and out of character for a wolf (may be my lack of experience, but Kayle's not even on my radar now). Consequently, the link between ProHawk and Kayle is probably no more than just mutual respect for each other.

There isn't a link between me and ProHawk. I was critical of him early on and liked his response, so I backed off. Stop trying to push this.

Also, I completely understand you getting confused about my gender, I confuse people. sometimes I confuse myself a little. But I am male.

I'm not going to put up with this. Seriously, I have seen this sort of play style before. I didn't tolerate it then, and I'm certainly not going to tolerate it now. Attempting to discredit AT's argument by acting as if you couldn't care less about it does not do anything to make me want to keep you around.

I can't help but think of g_landers (Uryuu I believe) in XVIIA. He took this position and it turned out to be a terrible lynch (...for the town heehee). The whole "I don't care" attitude shouldn't be your reason for voting for him. I'm voting for him because he's playing very scummily, so I won't disagree with your vote, but I'd want to caution people reading your post against this kind of attitude. JMO.