Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!

[butter nut ninja]

Based on point a) you are indirectly calling me a wolf if Vablakes is a wolf because I called you out for wrongly saying I defended him? You are saying that if I was town, I would not contest that you were displaying wrong information about my actions? But it goes past defending now, you go on to say that if I was town, I "backed" a wolf without good reason.

Point b certainly comes off funny. Assuming Vablakes is a wolf, you are telling me I either contested your false information because I was a wolf, or I "backed" a wolf without a good reason. Now this is interesting. You changed your whole point. It went from "defend" to "backed." Those are very, very different things. But yeah, I think I WILL quote my post.

Here's the link: http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2362265&postcount=215
to where I attack HD and his case against Valblake. Nowhere did I defend Valblake and I will tell you something vegitalian, twisting words like that, changing intensity like from "defend" to "backed." These are all very, very scummy tactics. Your entire post above is a sublte accusation of me without actually coming out and saying it.

Unvote: Vablake
Vote: vegitalian

Clearly I was not the only one who disagreed with your post:




To which you responded:


Wait what? You are of course saying it means something, you went the trouble of pointing it out, and are implying it will mean something later. Also what’s with this “you’re right you were defending his point (but more subtly his playstyle.) You have no proof of that either. You are doing exactly the opposite of what you just said:


Vablake may be doing some really fishy stuff, but what you just did really raised a red flag.
-You posted False information
-You didn’t bother to even cite or back up your own opinions, which you just contradicted in your next post

Because you didn't back up ANY of your points


-You further went on to accuse me of either being a wolf who doesn’t like that you said I was falsely defending Vablake or I am a dumb townie who backed a wolf without a good reason. Do you know for sure Vablake is a wolf? You sure seemed confident in that second statement.

Scrolling back up, I happen to see this:



This whole post is off. It’s one thing for him to make a point and say “I think it’s safe to assume the wolves can talk,” but that part at the end really gets me. It’s a loaded question and no matter how it would be awnsered it would put the person he was asking [PokemonFreak5] in the wrong. Not the mention it’s unnecessary and unprompted given the situation.

But then there’s this post as well:


What? Don’t post a lot? It helps the wolves? You make a point to say you’re new? Who cares? I don’t. You make a point to say that you agree with everyone, but won’t hop on the bandwagon. This post is entirely filler and fluff, adds nothing to the conversation, and is useless.

No, no something is going on with you vegitalian. You are indirectly trying to accuse people without just out and saying it, you are posting just enough to stay active, but most of your post contribute nothing, and you say “back-up your points” and post information on people (including some false one) without backing up any of it, claiming it is just “how you perceived it.”

Your move.

Why mount a huge defense against vegitalian over listing players that defend/attack another? I think it's helpful and might be useful to us later on. It's awfully scummy to defend yourself against something as silly as a list. There's not much of a reason to do that so early in the game.

VOTE: Absoltrainer

 

[Innocent_Shine]

Hey, I've been barely able to keep up with the thread, but school and holiday stuff have almost my full attention. I'll try to post more after school tonight, but I can't guarantee that depending on homework. (I would post more now, but I leave in a few minutes and still have to get ready.)

This is Vablakes's first game, right? He sounds like someone who did a lot of research, but went overboard in practice. Not sure if Wolf or Town (also not sure if Wolves have Day chat again), could still go either way at this point whether he's stumbling around as a Townie, or just badly covering his tracks as a Wolf.

1) No she is not faking a posting restriction, that would be stupid.

One thing I have to say about the whole lurking thing though is that you say town has no reason to lurk, but that doesn't mean people should be posting just for the sake of posting.

Biggest game I've ever been in was ~21 people.

I figured it was probably something that didn't actually have to do with the game.

I didn't see anybody else quote the (very annoying) contradiction.

Voting a person for "faking" a posting restriction appears to be an attempt at getting an easy bandwagon going to scorri since it would be easy to push scorri for "lying". This appears to scorri as if Sandslash7 is voting for her for an easy reason and not a valid one.

This is a very valid reason as you started too late for it to be legit, and lying is anti-Town, if it's faked.

Basic point: scorri most likely would not have known that all warnings would be done privately unless she had been told so by the mod, therefore having received a warning herself for her speech imped.

4a) All warnings relating to roles, post restrictions, etc. will be private. If you break a restriction, you will get a warning. The third time you receive a warning you are likely to be modkilled.

Either she didn't get mod-killed for breaking the restriction three times, or it's fake.

I have to go in about five minutes so I'm jumping off. There hasn't been a vote count in awhile for me to reference easily, but it looks like the most likely lynch targets are Human_Destroyer, AbsolTrainer, and vegitalian? Those are the names I see most often when I look through quickly, I'll pay attention to their posts when I come back. (Will try to read the thread on my phone on break in school.)

 

[Human Destroyer]

We kinda starting realizing the speech imped might not be fake when we realized it said 3 "warnings" instead of "infractions". It was possible she got one warning for all 3 infractions.

Speaking of lynching though, I'd like to request a vote count if I'm allowed to. (Am I?)

 

[Pikamaster]

There will be a vote count tonight when I am able.

 

[Sheepbro]

I'm not sure on the whole AT vs vegi whinefest yet. I am sure glad AT won't be cluttering for a tiny while.
Glad you joined IS, just a few more left I think.

I wanted to mention, as of the last votecount we had 23 votes total. That's right, the minimum voting count to lynch, and we have it in total. Inb4 no lynch?

Other than that, I don't think I can really say many useful things at the moment, my reads (from "practice") seem to only get interesting after real hard evidence, ie flips.
I'm keeping my eyes open for big scumtells though and I'll share them if I find them.

Also, it's "I couldn't care less", not "I could care less". If you're going to hyperbole "I don't care", please do it right.

 

[Kayle]

Okay, AT, how I about I read all of your posts in your exchange with Vegitalian's? Don't worry, I'm reading his, too.

Let's start by examining everything you said that I perceive as being helpful, constructive, or informative, starting from #443.

(Nothing helpful in 443.)

[...] You’re making assumptions off something I said and putting words into my mouth without a basis of fact or truth. You should worry more about defending yourself which you have failed to do again and again, you have made no case for your own township, and rather you have pointed fingers and tried to cast dirt on others. [...]

This will be the third time I've noted this, but I really think it holds water.

Vegetalian's predicament is where it is now because he was trying to subtly smear me and plant the seeds that I may be a wolf if Vablakes flips wolf because I “defended him,” which of course was false information. I called him out and it has led us here. I believe that Vegetalian was banking on Vablakes going down and flipping wolf and was planning to use what he was saying about me “defending” Vablakes as a platform to target me.

This is further cemented by this:

If (when) Vegetalian flips wolf I STRONGLY suggest we go after Vablakes either during the night, or during the next day.

(Not much helpful in 451, mostly point-by-point aggression against Vegitalian.

(Nothing useful in 454 at all.)

I eagerly await [Vegitalian's response].

Okay, so what might I have learned from your discussion with vegitalian? That he is attempting to smear and mislead, and exactly what you feared he was 'smearing' you with, along with a theory about what vegitalian may have hoped to accomplish if things had gone his way. That's pretty much it, in six posts you accomplished about that much.

Next, let's examine everything that seemed meant to draw an emotional reaction out of vegitalian:

You should worry about getting lynched today, not getting killed by the wolves at night (though being a wolf yourself, you shouldn't worry bout that). Are you trying to scare me? I told you, I have nothing to fear from wolves.

Cocky, mostly. "You should worry about your own problems because you're getting yourself killed the way things are going. Also, you're a wolf."

You're putting words into my mouth, role-fishing, and trying to call me a wolf again. I never said any of that; I simply said I have nothing to fear from wolves. I said that in response to you trying to scare me into what “might happen if you flip town.” I’m not scared of that. Anymore read into that statement is silly. [...] I’m having a lot of fun with this though so if you would like to continue this dance, I will be more than happy to accommodate.

OMGUS except with logic (but still irritating), plus an invitation for him to continue because you enjoy beating up his points.

(449 was devoid of this)

You seem hell bent to ignore all the information I gave you.

[...]

Anyways, I see what you’re doing and it won’t work. You’re trying to keep my talking, hoping I slip and say something. I won’t, all I have to do it keep shooting down you’re points, but you are welcome to keep trying.

"You're being ignorant, and your little tricks aren't going to work on big old scary me. I'm going to just keep beating you all day." Quoting multiple posts by the same person in different contexts or from different times to find contradictions is often a frustration tactic, as well - just because a person thought two different things at different times doesn't necessarily mark them as suspicious, but a person caught by it can't say much in defense and is left frustrated that they have now been publicly misunderstood. For calling him out on a smear campaign, it seems odd that you'd make post 451 such that it could potentially be seen as a smear as well.

I'd say I'm a really good townie and I'd say you're a really stubborn wolf. Speaking of shooting down your points, I noticed that every time I shoot one down, you watch it crash to the ground and blow up, then lauch another five more hoping the results will change.

An analogy. I am Anit-Aircraft Artillery (AAA) and you are the Air-Force, and you keep sending planes into my fields of fire hoping that even though my rounds tore through every wave so far, maybe they won't this time.

You are going out of your way to NOT counter any of my points. Meanwhile I've countered all your points, and you never even counter-countered my counter points. Thus why you have already lost this battle.

Wow, this entire post. This is where I got upset. Nothing that contributes to any helpful aspect of the town at all; all this post could possibly hope to accomplish is to frustrate vegitalian further, and posing as a distraction to reset discussion.

I eagerly await it.

So basically, "come at me bro"?

Instead of providing useful scumhunting information for the town you seemed much more interested in deflating, derogating, and disparaging Vegitalian, which as I see it did not accomplish much. As a matter of fact, it actually hurt your case: ProHawk observes that vegitalian has fallen into an inexperienced mindset that defeats his argument, and vegitalian's response today gives some thought to his inexperience:

Post #424
re: Kayle and Prohawk
After gathering my thoughts, I realized that I did pull an OMGUS (on them, not necessarily you).

Post #429
re: changing my mind
Despite what I said in Post #430, I was contradictory. I am still on the fence about you - you're a lot more experienced at this game, which makes me wonder: why are you playing in the newb sandbox? I don't understand.

This is why I am no longer so suspicious of vegitalian. It is now easy to characterize his avoidance of controversy as a mistake - either failure to recognize, or fear of getting involved in something he doesn't understand (I remember that feeling from my first few games). It is now easy to characterize his inaccuracies in his relations post as just misreads.

Let's go for a triple feature! How about I examine all the parts of your posts that felt oddly defensive to me?

Are you trying to scare me? I told you, I have nothing to fear from wolves.

You're putting words into my mouth, role-fishing, and trying to call me a wolf again. I never said any of that; I simply said I have nothing to fear from wolves. I said that in response to you trying to scare me into what “might happen if you flip town.” I’m not scared of that. Anymore read into that statement is silly.

I believe that Vegetalian was banking on Vablakes going down and flipping wolf and was planning to use what he was saying about me “defending” Vablakes as a platform to target me.

(451: Less defensive, more overconfident)

I'd say I'm a really good townie and I'd say you're a really stubborn wolf.

You are going out of your way to NOT counter any of my points. Meanwhile I've countered all your points, and you never even counter-countered my counter points.

(That one is more of a stretch but w/e.)

And let's continue into after my post, at which time I actually start calling you on things, rather than just accepting the beating like vegitalian:

-Are you saying I should not have argued with Vegitalian? I went out of my way to accuse a person of being a wolf and they attempted to fight back by calling me a wolf, taking things I say out of context, lying, ignoring my points and accusation. I reacted accordingly and argued my point, countered his points, and countered 30 more of his points. I did nothing wrong.

It's not my fault, I did nothing wrong!! Why are you interested in appearing innocent?

Nothing I have done has stopped anyone else from scum-hunting. My conversation with vegitalian in no way, shape, or form, prevents anyone esle from having their own disscussions, doing their own scum-hunting, or participating in conversation. Any halting of disscussion has occured from people "watching" and not "talking." That's not my fault.

It's like I'm listening to a politician making a statement about a scandal. "I in no way shape or form had [explicit] relations with that woman." Not to mention it's outright wrong and you know that, but you're going to pin other people being distracted by your emotionally charged and frustrating conversation as "not your fault". Vegitalian's, then? Or ours? Smear smear. Blame blame.

I never said that at all, don't put words in my mouth.

But I didn't. You said - AND I QUOTE - "Nah I'll go after new scum after the old scum is dead [...] If I see something I can contribute to I will[.]" There was no reasoning, no justification that we - or you - should stop hunting, just that you are going to stop because you're SOOOO SURE that vegitalian is scum that it's a waste of your time to find "something out of nothing", which is pretty much all we have to go on if you haven't noticed. Deride deride, not to mention illogical and a clear attempt to incite anger and frustration by acting superior.

My quote, which this post is responding to, for context: "...so you're going to up and just decide not to contribute to the town anymore unless it suits your preferences and fancy? Fine, I guess, but really? "

Post #487 deserves a response and not responding to anything in it looks bad, but honestly I don't feel compelled to answer your challenge. I don't like defending myself. Not because I'm suicidal - but because I don't learn much. I lose my ability to focus on other players because I've got to go back and focus on what you're trying to say about me and why on earth you'd try to say that. It's frustrating. But, still, I think I've got some things to share...

You make some pretty valid points that I'm willing to concede. Sure, 2-4 people is a bit small to call it a bandwagon when it's a 23-man lynch. And sure, if you just want to go after scumtells blindly that's fine. (That does not mean you are looking for hard targets necessarily, however.) The whole bit about me not seeing the game in terms of "easy" versus "hard" targets? That's because wolves look for easy targets. Wolves look for targets in general. I look for wolves. As a townie I have no reason to see the players as "easy" or "hard", but any wolf just LOVES it when people make themselves easy to lynch - or when they can tweak things (like HD's post) to make them easy to lynch.

Sorry you don't seem to understand my disagreement with your reasoning regarding Vablakes. Here's how I've seen it, in my limited experience: a bad town player tries to hunt scum, ends up looking scummy, and apologizes and (if they survive) attempts to improve. Vablakes and HD remind me a lot of Yachiru from XVIIA who was not only town-aligned but very strong town-aligned by endgame. A bad wolf player tries to look like a townie, ends up looking scummy, and panics. Vablakes didn't seem as panicked, but showed all other symptoms of inexperienced play. Thus I read a bit of town from the same actions you chose to condemn him for. I actually had not read closely enough to see his little quip about how he was going to reveal - all I saw was the gambit business which was also strange - but the idea that he was considering revealing at 4 votes is certainly scummy.

But my point really is, I don't disagree with your vote for Vablakes. I thought I made that implicitly clear by stating that I saw some of his actions as scummy already. I disagreed with the reasoning that I read in your post. If people are consistently mis-reading your posts and you have to constantly correct them, maybe you need to work on communicating a little better?

What is the whole "Wait a darn second....that contradicts what you JUST posted" thing when you're quoting my posts out of chronological order? I'm not allowed to change my mind after seeing a scummier player come along and make him look fine by comparison?

I don't really care if you fail to see why I connect you with jpulice and I don't really care whether that connection comes out or not (I mean, it'd be great to have more information one way or another, but gotta avoid that deadly confirmation bias). Yeah, I changed my mind between posting "You don't seem scummy to me" and then making another post about "Oh, wait, he seems scummy": I thought about it. People think. That's a thing people do. It takes time. I stepped away so I would stop being frustrated with your discussion with veg - at which time, I was intent on not making a poor decision about who was and wasn't scum based on emotional bias - and realized that my instinct had some more foundation to it than I thought. So I came back and posted as such. Is that weird somehow??

Sorry, my point about HD was convoluted at best, I was having a hard time getting it out. It's the whole "if-he's-scum-he's-bad-scum" (and he did kind of act like scum so I don't disagree with pressuring him), but added on with if he's not scum, he's trying to help the town and it's funny how eager you and ProHawk were to tear that down. It made for a fairly good opening conversation as a townie but a great opening play as a wolf. A weak point, but one I felt worth sharing at least.

You've learned a lot about vegitalian? Do tell. You haven't told anyone yet, and I sure didn't learn anything incriminating about vegitalian from your discussion with him or your defense of that discussion with me. Apparently most of the town seems to agree that not much was gained from your accusations, so you've a lot of people to convince on that one. What I've learned is that you're aggressive, you're acting suspicious, and vegitalian looks like he's just making newby mistakes.

I've pointed out now that I handle votes differently from how I'm apparently expected to. I've only got one at a time, guys, and I hold it close to my chest until I really feel ready to use it. It bothers me to have a vote randomly sticking out on someone we're not even talking about anymore unless I ACTUALLY want to talk about him. No one's discussing HD; no one's discussing jpulice; now we're discussing you and vegitalian, and I was ready to move on from vegitalian and was preparing to start talking about you instead. Thus the unvote. I don't blame you for not getting that since it's evidently not the norm.

uuuugh. I'm tired now. I will try to do some homework and come back to this, but I don't know if I'll be able to.

 

[waynegg]

I told you, I have nothing to fear from wolves.

Not taking vegi's side in the least because he does come off scummy, but there's only one way to not be afraid of wolves in this game... Methinks you made a big slip. While that would be uncharacteristic of you, I know the hours you are keeping with school, CORPS, and all which could easily cause you to goof up.

And say we lynch vegitalian today, that doesn't take this stink off you. It would neither be the first time a wolf has crucified another wolf in an attempt to gain town cred for the long game, nor would it be the first time a wolf has attempted to control the flow of conversation.

That said, I believe the current tide has put forth a good candidate for day 1 lynch.

VOTE: VEGITALIAN

EVERYONE should keep AT on his toes and not let him slink out of sight going into the next game day!

 

[scorri]

Innocent_Shine: scorri would like to point out that in fact her forgetfulness has been pointed out multiple times in thread and has been explained. scorri was forgetful three times before the mods realized this was happening (fun fact: scorri pointed out the fact that she had forgotten to follow her speech imped to the mod because she realized what she had done before the mods noticed) and because of that scorri only received one warning due to the mods only noticing after her mistakes had already happened.

In other news, scorri's head hurts from trying to understand what all is going on in between A_T and vegi but she will try her best to get a post up soon explaining her thoughts on that.

 

[Shinori]

Not taking vegi's side in the least because he does come off scummy, but there's only one way to not be afraid of wolves in this game... Methinks you made a big slip. While that would be uncharacteristic of you, I know the hours you are keeping with school, CORPS, and all which could easily cause you to goof up.

And say we lynch vegitalian today, that doesn't take this stink off you. It would neither be the first time a wolf has crucified another wolf in an attempt to gain town cred for the long game, nor would it be the first time a wolf has attempted to control the flow of conversation.

That said, I believe the current tide has put forth a good candidate for day 1 lynch.

VOTE: VEGITALIAN

EVERYONE should keep AT on his toes and not let him slink out of sight going into the next game day!

So wait. You think that absol slipped but yet you would rather lynch someone else.

Also in regards to human_Destroyers question earlier. Yes I do know that town can argue with town.

 

[Human Destroyer]

"It looks like he's kind of voting him for not doing much, yet he hasn't said a word about me that I know of."

Please elaborate on this, because I'm honestly not quite sure what you mean.

And this? What does this mean? (Probably my last post for the night unless I feel Shinori's explanation elicits a response)

 

[Pikamaster]

Vegitalian- 7 ( Absoltrainer, Prohawk, Dragonclyne725, Jellyfisher, SMP88, Sheepbro, Waynegg)

Kayle- 1 (Tables)

Prohawk- 2 (Crimsonsky, Luster Purge)

Vablakes- 4 (Eclipse, DarthPika, G landers, Pokemonplayer101)

Human Destroyer- 1 (Scorri)

Jpulice- 2 (Thunderjolt, Human Destroyer)

StrongRhino- 1 (TheKing)

G landers- 1 (JewelQuest)

Tables- 2 (Pokemonfreak5, Benzo)

Your Face- 1 (Jason)

Pokemonrocks777- 1 (Jpulice)

Absoltrainer- 3 (Kayle, Shinori, Butter nut ninja)

I went from the very beginning of the day to do this vote count, so I know it is correct. If you are voting for someone you don't want to, just fix it now as you did not do so correctly earlier.

---------- Post added 12/04/2012 at 09:48 PM ----------

Also, The Bank will be subbing in for Ultimatedra. He will be receiving his role shortly.

 

[pokemonplayer101]

I promised a long post refuting your points; here it is. I work during the day, otherwise I would've responded sooner.

I'm going to make this as quick and painless to read as possible, so that everyone sees it:

Post #388
re: AbsolTrainer reacting to me saying he defended Vablakes (on post 215)
You defended Vablakes by alleviating suspicion - several people voted him for role-fishing, which you counter-argued... In his defense.
In a later post, you voted for him. I was laying down my perception of your posts. I perceived that you defended him (and I'm sure others do, too).

Long Wall Post #405
re: miscommunication
Only "The best defense is a good offense? I don't know what you're worried about - you voted for him, so if Valblakes is a wolf, it actually makes you look more like a townie." was meant for you. I responded, saying it was miscommunication and that my comments were directed to people that contested my points.
re: backed vs. defended
Semantics - backing someone and defending someone are not the same thing by definition, but ultimately mean the same thing in context. Picking me apart for this is about as pointless as me picking apart your spelling. NOT scummy tactics - semantics. It's scummy that you're using those two words as an excuse to lynch me.
re: accusation
See miscommunication.
re: no proof he was defending his playstyle
Read post #284. HD outright says "Not to answer for Diaz, but that's the kind of thing he says all the time." I was assuming he was referring to his playstyle.
re: false information
An editorial is not false information - it's based on an opinion. My opinion was formed based on my perception of the posts.
re: backing up my opinions
You're right. It's a lot of information - I was pretty lazy about it.
re: accusing you of being a wolf
See miscommunication. I wasn't directing that at anyone specific.
re: Pokemonfreak and Diaz
I wanted to put some pressure on the both of them (just like the pressure votes earlier). I was looking for a reaction - yours I wasn't expecting.

Post #407
re: threat
See miscommunication above and that I wasn't directing it at anyone specific.

Post #416
re: addressing other people
Two parts of my post demonstrate that it wasn't directed specifically at you: "These were all my impressions" (why would I get several impressions from a few sentences?) and "(it's a long list, I'm not going to quote all of the posts)" - if it was a matter of quoting your post, that would be easy.
re: broadcasting false information
It's false to whoever sees it as false. I'm broadcasting my perceptions - of course people will disagree.
re: "lala I can't hear you"
Now who's spreading false information? I answered you - maybe not all of your posts, but the general point. Most of your attacks were based off of miscommunication, and I thought explaining that it was a miscommunication would be enough.
re: calling me a wolf
I can say "I'm a townie", but how will that make anyone believe me? Call me a wolf if you'd like - I know that you're wrong, and others will get their own impressions.
re: touching a nerve
The whole feud we had paints targets on both of us, so I think we both touched a nerve. As a result, we both look like scum.

Post #424
re: Kayle and Prohawk
After gathering my thoughts, I realized that I did pull an OMGUS (on them, not necessarily you).

Post #429
re: changing my mind
Despite what I said in Post #430, I was contradictory. I am still on the fence about you - you're a lot more experienced at this game, which makes me wonder: why are you playing in the newb sandbox? I don't understand.

Post #433
re: not fearing wolves
You repeatedly saying that you don't fear wolves doesn't necessarily clear the scummy image off of you. You haven't responded to my point - why are you not afraid of wolves?
re: not calling you a wolf
I'm not convinced, so why would I vote? I also don't necessarily want to look like I'm OMGUS'ing more unless I'm more certain of your affiliation.
re: Vablakes
Addressed in Post #439

Post #443
re: not fearing wolves
Again you bring this up? I don't know what reason you have for announcing it. I'd like to hear what some of the more experienced players think.

Post #446
re: putting words in your mouth
I cited exactly what you said, and analyzed it. How is that putting words into your mouth? Good evasion of providing an explanation, though.

Post #449
re: plot to smear you?
Yes - trying to smear you by listing you among 4 other people this early in the game. My initial post wasn't intended to smear anyone, and logically you're not the one most affected by it were someone to refer to it later.

Post #451
re: trying to get you to slip up and say something
You have, my friend. You have.

Post #458
re: Offense on Kayle
You're by far the jumpiest person in the game thus far. I thought my wall of text would be it for you, but you appear to be jumping on everyone. The question is - why?

Questions for AbsolTrainer:
Why are you playing in the newb sandbox with me and letting what I say get through to you?
Why are you not afraid of wolves?
Why are you going full offense on everyone that disagrees with you?

Questions for everyone else:
Why would AbsolTrainer post that he's not afraid of wolves? I feel like that's worth consideration.
How experienced is A/T in this game? How has he played in other games?

Quote the posts (or at the very least link them), or I won't read. I'm not gonna bother figuring out which post is which. To me, the above post = nothing.

This post contains a contradiction in regards to Vablakes' read, and thus, I find it scummy.

I do apologize for the contradiction. I wanted to place a vote at the end of my post, as I had none at that moment. I just shouldn't have voted if I didn't know who I thought was scummy. I apologize for that.
UNVOTE: Vablakes

Guys, just a reminder to separate gameplay critique and irrelevant insults, and cut the latter out.

*cough*Absoltrainer & Vegitalian*cough*

Oh yeah, forgot this:
VOTE: Vegitalian

*cough*bandwagoning*cough*

Sheesh, I really should take a cough drop. :/

hey sorry i have been busy with school i will try to post more this weekend sorry if i seem bad but just been super busy i can post today

The majority of us are also in school/college. I oftentimes can't post until 6 or 7, but does that stop me from posting? No. If you can't get on the computer "that late" (I'm assuming you're a/an Elementary/Middle school student), then drop from the game and get a replacement. You're basically just dead weight if you're not posting.

Valblakes

Just a pet peeve of mine, but please spell people's usernames right. Vablakes is how you spell it.




. . . . .

I wanted to post more, but my mom wants me to get off the computer. Hopefully I'll be on later tonight, but if not, I'll continue my post tomorrow.

 

[StrongRhino]

I've felt sick, and sort of skimmed over, but what really stood out to me was AT saying he isn't afraid of wolves. Those words imply he is a wolf himself (or a selfish doctor that can protect himself)

FoS:
Absol Trainer
Vablakes
Human Destroyer
Sandslash7

 

[Shinori]

And this? What does this mean? (Probably my last post for the night unless I feel Shinori's explanation elicits a response)

It means how come he didn't say anything about me doing nothing at all. Considering all I've done until today was pretty much say "I'll read and post later" and I did that like 3-4 times.

 

[vegitalian]

I have nothing to hide.

**Duplicate post with links for ease of use**

Response to AbsolTrainer

Post #388
re: AbsolTrainer reacting to me saying he defended Vablakes (on post 215)
You defended Vablakes by alleviating suspicion - several people voted him for role-fishing, which you counter-argued... In his defense.
In a later post, you voted for him. I was laying down my perception of your posts. I perceived that you defended him (and I'm sure others do, too).

Long Wall Post #405
re: miscommunication
Only "The best defense is a good offense? I don't know what you're worried about - you voted for him, so if Valblakes is a wolf, it actually makes you look more like a townie." was meant for you. I responded, saying it was miscommunication and that my comments were directed to people that contested my points.
re: backed vs. defended
Semantics - backing someone and defending someone are not the same thing by definition, but ultimately mean the same thing in context. Picking me apart for this is about as pointless as me picking apart your spelling. NOT scummy tactics - semantics. It's scummy that you're using those two words as an excuse to lynch me.
re: accusation
See miscommunication.
re: no proof he was defending his playstyle
Read post #284. HD outright says "Not to answer for Diaz, but that's the kind of thing he says all the time." I was assuming he was referring to his playstyle.
re: false information
An editorial is not false information - it's based on an opinion. My opinion was formed based on my perception of the posts.
re: backing up my opinions
You're right. It's a lot of information - I was pretty lazy about it.
re: accusing you of being a wolf
See miscommunication. I wasn't directing that at anyone specific.
re: Pokemonfreak and Diaz
I wanted to put some pressure on the both of them (just like the pressure votes earlier). I was looking for a reaction - yours I wasn't expecting.

Post #407
re: threat
See miscommunication above and that I wasn't directing it at anyone specific.

Post #416
re: addressing other people
Two parts of my post demonstrate that it wasn't directed specifically at you: "These were all my impressions" (why would I get several impressions from a few sentences?) and "(it's a long list, I'm not going to quote all of the posts)" - if it was a matter of quoting your post, that would be easy.
re: broadcasting false information
It's false to whoever sees it as false. I'm broadcasting my perceptions - of course people will disagree.
re: "lala I can't hear you"
Now who's spreading false information? I answered you - maybe not all of your posts, but the general point. Most of your attacks were based off of miscommunication, and I thought explaining that it was a miscommunication would be enough.
re: calling me a wolf
I can say "I'm a townie", but how will that make anyone believe me? Call me a wolf if you'd like - I know that you're wrong, and others will get their own impressions.
re: touching a nerve
The whole feud we had paints targets on both of us, so I think we both touched a nerve. As a result, we both look like scum.

Post #424
re: Kayle and Prohawk
After gathering my thoughts, I realized that I did pull an OMGUS (on them, not necessarily you).

Post #429
re: changing my mind
Despite what I said in Post #430, I was contradictory. I am still on the fence about you - you're a lot more experienced at this game, which makes me wonder: why are you playing in the newb sandbox? I don't understand.

Post #433
re: not fearing wolves
You repeatedly saying that you don't fear wolves doesn't necessarily clear the scummy image off of you. You haven't responded to my point - why are you not afraid of wolves?
re: not calling you a wolf
I'm not convinced, so why would I vote? I also don't necessarily want to look like I'm OMGUS'ing more unless I'm more certain of your affiliation.
re: Vablakes
Addressed in Post #439

Post #443
re: not fearing wolves
Again you bring this up? I don't know what reason you have for announcing it. I'd like to hear what some of the more experienced players think.

Post #446
re: putting words in your mouth
I cited exactly what you said, and analyzed it. How is that putting words into your mouth? Good evasion of providing an explanation, though.

Post #449
re: plot to smear you?
Yes - trying to smear you by listing you among 4 other people this early in the game. My initial post wasn't intended to smear anyone, and logically you're not the one most affected by it were someone to refer to it later.

Post #451
re: trying to get you to slip up and say something
You have, my friend. You have.

Post #458
re: Offense on Kayle
You're by far the jumpiest person in the game thus far. I thought my wall of text would be it for you, but you appear to be jumping on everyone. The question is - why?

Questions for AbsolTrainer:
Why are you playing in the newb sandbox with me and letting what I say get through to you?
Why are you not afraid of wolves?
Why are you going full offense on everyone that disagrees with you?

Questions for everyone else:
Why would AbsolTrainer post that he's not afraid of wolves? I feel like that's worth consideration.
How experienced is A/T in this game? How has he played in other games?

 

[Vablakes]

Hey guys, that post that I wanted will have to wait. My day was rough and I have a migrane now, I will write that post as soon as it goes away.

 

[vegitalian]

I have nothing to hide.

**Duplicate post with links for ease of use**

Response to AbsolTrainer

Post #388
re: AbsolTrainer reacting to me saying he defended Vablakes (on post 215)
You defended Vablakes by alleviating suspicion - several people voted him for role-fishing, which you counter-argued... In his defense.
In a later post, you voted for him. I was laying down my perception of your posts. I perceived that you defended him (and I'm sure others do, too).

Long Wall Post #405
re: miscommunication
Only "The best defense is a good offense? I don't know what you're worried about - you voted for him, so if Valblakes is a wolf, it actually makes you look more like a townie." was meant for you. I responded, saying it was miscommunication and that my comments were directed to people that contested my points.
re: backed vs. defended
Semantics - backing someone and defending someone are not the same thing by definition, but ultimately mean the same thing in context. Picking me apart for this is about as pointless as me picking apart your spelling. NOT scummy tactics - semantics. It's scummy that you're using those two words as an excuse to lynch me.
re: accusation
See miscommunication.
re: no proof he was defending his playstyle
Read post #284. HD outright says "Not to answer for Diaz, but that's the kind of thing he says all the time." I was assuming he was referring to his playstyle.
re: false information
An editorial is not false information - it's based on an opinion. My opinion was formed based on my perception of the posts.
re: backing up my opinions
You're right. It's a lot of information - I was pretty lazy about it.
re: accusing you of being a wolf
See miscommunication. I wasn't directing that at anyone specific.
re: Pokemonfreak and Diaz
I wanted to put some pressure on the both of them (just like the pressure votes earlier). I was looking for a reaction - yours I wasn't expecting.

Post #407
re: threat
See miscommunication above and that I wasn't directing it at anyone specific.

Post #416
re: addressing other people
Two parts of my post demonstrate that it wasn't directed specifically at you: "These were all my impressions" (why would I get several impressions from a few sentences?) and "(it's a long list, I'm not going to quote all of the posts)" - if it was a matter of quoting your post, that would be easy.
re: broadcasting false information
It's false to whoever sees it as false. I'm broadcasting my perceptions - of course people will disagree.
re: "lala I can't hear you"
Now who's spreading false information? I answered you - maybe not all of your posts, but the general point. Most of your attacks were based off of miscommunication, and I thought explaining that it was a miscommunication would be enough.
re: calling me a wolf
I can say "I'm a townie", but how will that make anyone believe me? Call me a wolf if you'd like - I know that you're wrong, and others will get their own impressions.
re: touching a nerve
The whole feud we had paints targets on both of us, so I think we both touched a nerve. As a result, we both look like scum.

Post #424
re: Kayle and Prohawk
After gathering my thoughts, I realized that I did pull an OMGUS (on them, not necessarily you).

Post #429
re: changing my mind
Despite what I said in Post #430, I was contradictory. I am still on the fence about you - you're a lot more experienced at this game, which makes me wonder: why are you playing in the newb sandbox? I don't understand.

Post #433
re: not fearing wolves
You repeatedly saying that you don't fear wolves doesn't necessarily clear the scummy image off of you. You haven't responded to my point - why are you not afraid of wolves?
re: not calling you a wolf
I'm not convinced, so why would I vote? I also don't necessarily want to look like I'm OMGUS'ing more unless I'm more certain of your affiliation.
re: Vablakes
Addressed in Post #439

Post #443
re: not fearing wolves
Again you bring this up? I don't know what reason you have for announcing it. I'd like to hear what some of the more experienced players think.

Post #446
re: putting words in your mouth
I cited exactly what you said, and analyzed it. How is that putting words into your mouth? Good evasion of providing an explanation, though.

Post #449
re: plot to smear you?
Yes - trying to smear you by listing you among 4 other people this early in the game. My initial post wasn't intended to smear anyone, and logically you're not the one most affected by it were someone to refer to it later.

Post #451
re: trying to get you to slip up and say something
You have, my friend. You have.

Post #458
re: Offense on Kayle
You're by far the jumpiest person in the game thus far. I thought my wall of text would be it for you, but you appear to be jumping on everyone. The question is - why?

Questions for AbsolTrainer:
Why are you playing in the newb sandbox with me and letting what I say get through to you?
Why are you not afraid of wolves?
Why are you going full offense on everyone that disagrees with you?

Questions for everyone else:
Why would AbsolTrainer post that he's not afraid of wolves? I feel like that's worth consideration.
How experienced is A/T in this game? How has he played in other games?

Sorry about that - apparently I don't know how to link on here. Fixed!

 

[PMysterious]

Questions for everyone else:
1. Why would AbsolTrainer post that he's not afraid of wolves? I feel like that's worth consideration.
2. How experienced is A/T in this game? How has he played in other games?

Guess I'll take this. I really don't care if anyone else does it.

1. I would think Absoltrainer is either cocky town, BP Townie, wolf, or indie. That' my guess.

2. You probably haven't noticed, but A/T is a Vet at this game and his playstyle differs from game to game. I suggest looking at the past games for how he plays. I might look in there myself if a lot of the players weren't new and easily able to be sniped by past experience comparison. Oh well, what can you do sometimes?

 

[DragonClyne725]

Why would AbsolTrainer post that he's not afraid of wolves? I feel like that's worth consideration.

Honestly, seeing AT's cocky rant, I took that quote to mean something like: "I don't fear wolves, wolves fear me". :nonono:

How experienced is A/T in this game? How has he played in other games?

From a quick search, he started playing in WW V here on the 'Gym. He has modded WW IX, XII, and XV. I would say that he has experience in playing Werewolf.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Although rather aggressive, AT did bring up a lot of dirt on vegitalian. For anyone that skipped over the argument, at least try to read through some, if not all, of it. If vegitalian does flip Wolf, we'll have a good head start on finding more wolves by looking at his interactions and who tried defending him. If vegitalian flips Town, we still have a good start as far as reads go.

As far as pointing fingers goes, I'm a bit suspicious of PF5 and the rest of the inactives (desufnoc, HoM, dave, G landers, and the list goes on). PF5 has made one alright post against Tables (#302), returned again to point fingers at Vablakes and Rhino in post #326 (both of whom were already under suspicion), and then disappeared. This "posting a few times early on then disappearing when the questioning starts" just bugs me, and has been his play the last few games where he was a Wolf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. I would think Absoltrainer is either cocky town, BP Townie, wolf, or indie. That' my guess.

Wow, "Absoltrainer is either a Townie, a Wolf, or an Indie". That sure narrows things down :lol:

 

[DarthPika]

Could someone provide a brief summery of what's been going on? I just don't have time right now to keep up with the thread at the rate it's moving. I'm mostly interested in what the case against vegetalian is.