Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!

[DragonClyne725]

With that, you are saying Jellyfisher was pro-town, yet the update says nothing about that. The front page says nothing about that. Speaking in such definites is never a good thing in a game where everything is unknown and in my eyes casts a shadow of doubt on you.

The line you bolded from my quote was a half-response to the debate that was occurring at that time, which was whether or not a "Pokemon Win" win condition should be treated as dangerous. What I was trying to say was that I didn't think a Pokemon killed Jelly, but rather a different faction (Enforcer, Indie, whatever). I'm not entirely sure where you got that I said/inferred that Jelly was pro-Town.

In any game of WW, the wolves have to have a majority win. Factions mean nothing from the viewpoint of a werewolf, and someone as experienced as you knows that. In that light, all you said was 'blah, blah, blah look I want to appear pro-town myself' with absolutely no substance.

Really? You think that Wolves do not fear another faction with a Night Kill? The Wolves' power comes from the fact that they are in control of the Night and who dies. If they run the risk of dying during the Night from another faction, they would want that killing role gone ASAP. It was merely a fact I was pointing out for those saying we should go after the Indies we could find and not prioritize finding Wolves, which I completely disagree with.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, mind telling us your win condition?

Vablakes stated his wind condition to be "Town Wins" in post #868:

Is it not possible that all the Pokemon have different win conditions? I know that mine is "Town Wins".

 

[Benson]

Okay, been catching up on the happens and so far, I'm inclined to wait and see what Vablakes has to say to go with further his current argument. Other than that a few comments have been made that seem deceptively scummy if it weren't for the irregularity and variety of people posting them, so I'll put that down to my own over-eager eyes.

Anyhow, my own contribution to the day is another point regarding the update and, although not the most constructive thing to be doing, a role-victim correlation.

A shadow moves quickly by you, his footsteps quiet. ...

Finally, you come across someplace inconspicuous to get some sleep. From here, you can see someone climbing one of the castle towers, moving awkwardly. After a few moments, you realize it's because he's carrying someone else's body with him, as he ties the other figure to the battlements.

-----

... Kirbyking is unaccounted for, as well. ...

Sounds to me that unless Jellyfisher's corpse was dragged up there, Kirbyking was as aforementioned by someone else, "kidnapped" which sounds either indy or scummy to me. Either way, if it's only a temporary role/day-block then we may be able to glean some anti-town information from Kirbyking's potential return.

 

[TheKing]

So, what you're saying is, that you would rather hunt for Indies than hunt for Wolves, because more Indies have won in the past then Wolves? The Wolves move as a unit; if we take out one, another will just make the Night Kill. Usually, Indies work alone (hence the name "Independents"), and taking out the one with a killing role will end the +1 NK. The Enforcers and Pokemon (to me, at least) do not seem to be as threatening as Wolves.

With Giratina dead, I don't see too much chance of there being another killing role as part of the Pokemon group. It's possible, but I don't see it as very likely. I see there being a greater probability that Jelly's killer was either an Enforcer (leading to them not being all friendly) or another type of Indie we have yet to see (which is entirely possible).

To Sum it Up: I believe we should focus on finding the Wolves, and not get distracted with the different groups, as we do not know their motives/goals as of yet. Honestly, TheKing, I see your statement about not wanting to prioritize finding Wolves as rather scummy.

Suspicious Pointy Finger: TheKing

I don't understand how you can make all these assumptions. There's no reason that the enforcers are "not very friendly" and the pokemon "might not be anti-town". Using logic, if they don't have the win condition "town wins" they're anti town. Also we have a claimed pokemon who seems to be acting suspiscious (vablakes) while no idea whp any wolves are. You seem to favor the pokemon while trying to make the other independent group (the enforcers) look more anti town. Which leads me to believe you're a pokemon who knows that your faction is antitown.

VoteragonClyne725

also, what's with this pointy finger thing? is it a speech impediment or what?

 

[waynegg]

I'm not entirely sure where you got that I said/inferred that Jelly was pro-Town.

Jelly's killer was either an Enforcer (leading to them not being all friendly) or another type of Indie we have yet to see (which is entirely possible).

By inferring that jellyfisher was killed by a non-town you are, de-facto, saying that he was pro-town (because logically bad people kill good people).

Something else interesting (which I admittedly didn't pick up on earlier; thanks for having me revisit these posts) is that you immediately jumped to "Enforcer or other indie" as being his killer. Why not wolf? Maybe because you have info to KNOW FOR SURE wolves didn't kill him?

Yep. You're a wolf, and you have my vote regardless of how this day plays out.

 

[DarthPika]

And you, The King, are making it look like your trying to place greater importance on hunting down pokemon, rather than wolves. This is rather scummy behavior, is it not? I agree, Vablakes is looking bad right now, and should be lynched today (unless something better turns up, which is unlikely), BUT, we can't just ignore the wolves. If we ignore the wolves, we will be doomed.

FoS: TheKing - For implying pokemon hunting/killing is more important than scum hunting.

 

[Pikamaster]

VOTE COUNT:
41 Remaining
21 to lynch


Scorri- 1 (SMP88)

Vablakes- 4 (Scorri, StrongRhino, Jpulice, DarthPika)

Scottistru- 1 (Human Destroyer)

Dragonclyne725- 2 (Waynegg, TheKing)

 

[DragonClyne725]

I don't understand how you can make all these assumptions. There's no reason that the enforcers are "not very friendly" and the pokemon "might not be anti-town".

Yes, I do not think the Pokemon have another killing role. In my mind, it's just illogical for them to have 2 killing roles. Therefore, I think it is more likely the Enforcers or another group have the killing role.

We have very little knowledge about the Enforcers or the Pokemon groups. They could both be anti-Town, or they could both be "survive till the end". The point is: we don't know at this point.

Using logic, if they don't have the win condition "town wins" they're anti town. Also we have a claimed pokemon who seems to be acting suspiscious (vablakes) while no idea whp any wolves are. You seem to favor the pokemon while trying to make the other independent group (the enforcers) look more anti town. Which leads me to believe you're a pokemon who knows that your faction is antitown.

I think the Pokemon are less dangerous than the Enforcers may be, if that is what you mean by "favor" then yes. No, I am not a Pokemon.

By inferring that jellyfisher was killed by a non-town you are, de-facto, saying that he was pro-town (because logically bad people kill good people).

I think you may be reading what I said wrong. Here is the full quote:

I see there being a greater probability that Jelly's killer was either an Enforcer (leading to them not being all friendly) or another type of Indie we have yet to see (which is entirely possible).

I stated that Jelly most likely wasn't killed by a Pokemon, and that he was more likely killed by an Enforcer or another Indie. This is in no way implying that he was "pro-town", as an Enforcer killing role could take out anyone: Wolf, Town, another Indie, whatever.

Something else interesting (which I admittedly didn't pick up on earlier; thanks for having me revisit these posts) is that you immediately jumped to "Enforcer or other indie" as being his killer. Why not wolf? Maybe because you have info to KNOW FOR SURE wolves didn't kill him?

Yep. You're a wolf, and you have my vote regardless of how this day plays out.

I don't really know for sure, but I don't think Wolves would be given an additional NK role. It makes more sense that another faction had done the kill, and not the Wolves. Do you believe the Wolves might have another NK role?

also, what's with this pointy finger thing? is it a speech impediment or what?

What's wrong with liking to point fingers at people? Isn't that the point of WW?

 

[ProHawk]

Just a few quick observations while I continue to wait for CrimsonSky to return from vacation.

I find it somewhat odd the way that DC725 is defending the other factions. While I agree with waynegg that he seems to know something we don't, I do not believe it is because he is a wolf.

DarthPika, for someone who talks so much about wanting to lynch wolves, and finding wolves I am not seeing any scum-hunting come out of you. Why is that? Remind me again, why is your vote on Vablakes? Do you believe he is a pokemon-wolf?

Glaceon, why are you skimming the thread and not paying attention? Do you know how many votes it takes to lynch someone?

 

[Crimsonsky]

My thoughts on the Enforcers is that they are the majority from the anti/non town factions because of that big restriction (assuming everyone of them has this restriction that is)

Welcome Levity! I hope that you had enough time to sift through Day 1. I would like to know your general impressions of the happenings if you would be so kind.

I know it has been a while, but I do recall Vablakes looking very scummish toward the end of the day which we didn't get to resolve properly. I would like to see a lot more from him this week to solidify my read on him.

Regarding the events, I think it is fair enough to say that Vegi being silenced is a decent indicator that he was indeed innocent and that there is something that he was onto that someone didn't want to get out there today. I will have to re-read through his posts to get a better idea of what that could be.

The most important issue I would like to get resolved at the moment is with CrimsonSky. He completely blew off his attack on me with some cryptic message and bs to legitimate and valid questions.



^This is the post to which I failed to see a proper response. 0> -1? How does that mean anything?

How does you referencing me in each of your posts find out my alignment? All I see from it is you fixating.

Don't understand your #2 answer....

You seem to be looking at my reactions, yet fail to provide any evidence? Please enlighten us as to my reactions and what about them have been interesting.

0>-1 means that I look better without any credit than having negative credit

you yourself said I posted something to taunt you in every post, why do you think I did that ?

I don't see any reason to explain point 3 and 4 cause they are self explanatory (so were 1 and 2 and I do not really get why you didn't get them)


also, I have very bad net connection (which isn't even mine) so, I could easily be considered as an inactive

Kind of forgot about this. Sorry! :X

That is all you can say???
Vote: Shinori

HELLO LEVITY
[DEL]too bad Proto is gone though[/DEL]

 

[DragonClyne725]

I find it somewhat odd the way that DC725 is defending the other factions. While I agree with waynegg that he seems to know something we don't, I do not believe it is because he is a wolf.

*Sigh* I'm not trying to defend the other factions, I'm defending my view that we should be hunting Wolves while keeping an eye on the Enforcers, who, in my opinion, may possess the other killing role, and that Pokemon should be kept an eye on as well, but odds are that they do not have another killing role.

 

[waynegg]

I think you may be reading what I said wrong. Here is the full quote:

I stated that Jelly most likely wasn't killed by a Pokemon, and that he was more likely killed by an Enforcer or another Indie. This is in no way implying that he was "pro-town", as an Enforcer killing role could take out anyone: Wolf, Town, another Indie, whatever.

No, I read what you wrote. Then I analyzed what you wrote. Then I applied basic psychology to what you wrote. End result says scummy.

Let me briefly explain that psychology so it'll be easier for you and others to understand. By immediately crediting a night kill to any faction other than wolf, and doing so as fervently as you have, it subconsciously gives a tale to first hand knowledge of either:

a) Knowing the wolf faction didn't do it because you are part of the wolf faction.

or

b) Knowing the wolf faction didn't do it because you are jellyfisher's killer.

Especially given that only one game day has elapsed. Those are the only two ways to have the intimate knowledge you have stated as cold fact.

 

[DarthPika]

DarthPika, for someone who talks so much about wanting to lynch wolves, and finding wolves I am not seeing any scum-hunting come out of you. Why is that? Remind me again, why is your vote on Vablakes? Do you believe he is a pokemon-wolf?

I have my own methods of scum hunting. Just because I'm not actively going around pinning people down trying to find out who's a wolf and who's not doesn't mean that I'm not looking for scum. I'm just a bit quieter about it is all. I much prefer to sit back and observe, and then draw conclusions from those observations when I think I see something of interest. As of now, I don't see much to go off of as far as scum reads on anyone yet. Right now, it's very dangerous to accuse someone of being scum, because there's not much evidence and it's easy to accidentally get a townie lynched.

My vote is on Vablakes because he is a Pokemon. I do not know if we can have a pokemon-wolf, but I think that is improbable. However, we do not currently have any leads on actual wolves, so my vote will stick with Vablakes until we have one. I already said I would change my vote should something more interesting come up. I'll be looking over the thread to see if there actually IS something more interesting.

Do I need to explain my self farther?

 

[waynegg]

892

Of course you need to explain yourself further. You are DarthPika. No one ever understands you, as you see here. You horrible human being... :tongue:

 

[DarthPika]

Being the horrible human being that I am, I'm ignoring the valid points you make, and just posting to counter your argument.

I'm not quite sure what to think of the DragonClyne situation yet, but it has my interest. I think looking over his old posts would be worth while.

 

[ProHawk]

0>-1 means that I look better without any credit than having negative credit

you yourself said I posted something to taunt you in every post, why do you think I did that ?

I don't see any reason to explain point 3 and 4 cause they are self explanatory (so were 1 and 2 and I do not really get why you didn't get them)


also, I have very bad net connection (which isn't even mine) so, I could easily be considered as an inactive

What credit are you talking about, and what negative credit are you referring to? Are you saying that you refuse to answer my question because you think it is going to give you negative credit to answer it?

2) Do you agree or disagree with my post that you claim "discredits" you in which I explained in greater detail HERE? Why or why-not?

^Never answered that one.

Please quote where I said that you are trying to taunt me. (#misrep)

Thank you for at least explaining point #2. If I now understand it correctly, you mentioning me in every post is your way of determining my alignment?

You seem to be looking at my reactions, yet fail to provide any evidence? Please enlighten us as to my reactions and what about them have been interesting.

^Still need to answer this as well as your results from your experiment of mentioning me in every post.

Honestly Crimson, your evasion of my questions to try and determine if you are scum or not leads me to believe that you are indeed scum.

VOTE: CRIMSONSKY

I think that you don't really have an answer to any of my questions which is why you are providing cryptic responses as a place holder, or flat out ignoring them to confuse or diffuse any suspicion that would come your way.

If any of you understood what Crimson was trying to say as he said I should have, please let me know so I can dismiss the scummy-vibes coming from him as poor-reading comprehension.

 

[DragonClyne725]

a) Knowing the wolf faction didn't do it because you are part of the wolf faction.

or

b) Knowing the wolf faction didn't do it because you are jellyfisher's killer.

or

c) Thinking it is unlikely the Wolves would be given a second killing role, and therefore stating that it is likely to be an Enforcer/Indie/whatever.

I see where you're coming from, but I made the assumption that the Wolf faction would not be given a second killing role.

Once again I'll ask (directed at everyone): Do you believe the Wolves might have an additional NK role?

Especially given that only one game day has elapsed. Those are the only two ways to have the intimate knowledge you have stated as cold fact.

Care to point to the quote where I stated this "cold fact"? I do not think I've played in a game where the Wolves had an additional kill along with their traditional NK, so I think it was likely not a Wolf.

 

[DarthPika]

Not to my knowledge have the wolves ever had any additional night killing power. If they do, then they'll likely have to skip a night or something. I think it's more likely that it was some other group who did the killing.

 

[ProHawk]

So here is the problem DC725. What makes you so sure that Kayle was a wolf kill? I don't see anything in the update that would lead me to believe that it was a wolf that killed Kayle.

Honestly, if we are talking about roles and which belonged to which... would a kill that resulted in no role-flip be more advantageous for a wolf or an independent? I would think that a wolf-role that would allow one kill to not flip alignment would be pretty advantageous for the wolf considering we have a game full of other factions and unknown roles. So why wasn't Jellyfisher the special-wolf kill?

Do you see how you seem to know more than you are letting on DC? I don't think it has as much to do with thinking that wolves could have two night kills as much as why you chose Kayle to be the wolf kill, and Jellyfisher to be the third-party kill.

 

[Sandslash7]

I will reiterate for those who might have missed it.


To make any assumptions at this point about any of the Night shenanigans at this point is unwise. With the kind of roles that have flipped already we must plan for complete role madness. Thus, the deaths seen N1 could have been from ANY number of possibilities.


Jellyfisher could have died to a Wolf NK, and a "janitor" cleaned him up to stop his role card from flipping.

Jellyfisher could have died/committed suicide, but his role allows him to return to life after X cycles.


At this point we do not know what or how caused his death. And to assume with fierce resolve that he was the target of Y role or faction is, again, unwise. Same goes for Kayle's death. It could have been wolves, it could have been Pokemon or Enforcers. It could have been a Vigilante or any number of other independents and factions, whose WC's are hidden from us.



However, one thing that seems logical, is based on the Enforcer role flip, and someone might have mentioned this before, that there is likely 5-6 Enforcers in play.

If their votes only count after 3 have died, then they must have 4 members minimum. And since they aren't the primary anti-town faction, which is again logical, since wolves and pokemon have a different alignment-flip-color in the OP, their numbers cannot be overwhelming. 5-6 seems logical and reasonable.

 

[waynegg]

Once again I'll ask (directed at everyone): Do you believe the Wolves might have an additional NK role?

I try not to get caught up in such thought because it isn't productive. It is possible. In LEX's last game there was.