Burninating_Torchic
New Member
BT Wins that on me
But still we need a story for Heatran
There is one.
It's the guardian and creator of that volcano it lives in.
Where did pokemon come from?
- Thread starter B_B_C
- Start date
There is one.
It's the guardian and creator of that volcano it lives in.
(TYranitarFReak)
New Member
And, remember regigigas?
It pulled continents and causes earthquakes!
Nintendo needs to make some 'bible of pokemon' to clean this fuzz....
It pulled continents and causes earthquakes!
Nintendo needs to make some 'bible of pokemon' to clean this fuzz....
homeofmew
Active Member
That is kinda lame though because thats a Groudonish type title.
The truth is we don't know. They have always been ambiguous about it and will probably be kept that way that is why they always mention the Pokemon world is full of mysteries. The whole they came from space thing has been used a lot as theories not to mention Mew and Arceus but we dont' know.
BTW Pokedex entries are not reliable information, the entries seem to be more like urban legends than anything else the way they are described.
Oh and there is more than one of each legendary with the exception of Mewtwo.
BTW Pokedex entries are not reliable information, the entries seem to be more like urban legends than anything else the way they are described.
Oh and there is more than one of each legendary with the exception of Mewtwo.
Burninating_Torchic
New Member
homeofmew - Last time I checked, volcanoes spew lava, which is most commonly associated with fire.
Marril - They're referred to as gods in the Japanese version of the movie, but not in the English version. The reason for this is that Shinto (the predominant religion in Japan) is polytheistic, whereas Christianity and Judaism (the predominant religions in America) are monotheistic. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't even release Arceus to the US, ever.
Marril - They're referred to as gods in the Japanese version of the movie, but not in the English version. The reason for this is that Shinto (the predominant religion in Japan) is polytheistic, whereas Christianity and Judaism (the predominant religions in America) are monotheistic. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't even release Arceus to the US, ever.
imho, 'god' is a lousy translation for 'kami'.
kami are more like guardian spirits, rather than a creator/judgemental 'god' who rules all. trying to force the concept of 'kami' through the western all-powerful creator 'god' mold just won't work, if one is looking for any type of accuracy as to what was meant by the concept of something like 'umi no kami' (lugia).
'mom
kami are more like guardian spirits, rather than a creator/judgemental 'god' who rules all. trying to force the concept of 'kami' through the western all-powerful creator 'god' mold just won't work, if one is looking for any type of accuracy as to what was meant by the concept of something like 'umi no kami' (lugia).
'mom
Good for them. You're going to argue the finer points of "the English version is more correct than the original written intent" with me?
Also, hypersensitive Christians/Jews can suck it up and just accept that in a fictional world, there might be a different god or even multiple gods, and that this is perfectly fine and they have to live with it.
IMHO, "god" being made to mean specifically "all-powerful creator" is worse than translating "kami" as "god".
Edit: On reflection, I don't believe translating "kami" as "god" is bad, given proper context, so adjusted the above sentence to reflect that.
Westerners respect such pantheons as the Greco-Roman or Norse ones as still being "gods", after all. All else fails, North American children can have Lugia explained to them as being on the same level as Triton.
Last edited:
Burninating_Torchic
New Member
I believe you misunderstood my post.
I am not trying to say that the English translation of the movie is better than the original Japanese.
In the Japanese version of the movie, they were called Kami, because that concept best describes what they are truly intended to be. They're not supposed to be Gods, and are never claimed to be, in either the English or Japanese versions. As Pokemom said, Kami =/= God.
Because "Kami" was used to describe them in the Japanese version, that's what they're supposed to be - nature spirits, in lamens terms. NOT Gods. Again, Kami =/= God.
Because "Kami" is not a word that is recognized by the majority of America (Christianity/Judaism/etc), the English translation of the movie could not refer to them as "Kami". The Japanese version referred to them as Kami due to the fact that this term was easily recognizable for its true meaning by the majority of moviegoers there (Shinto), but America couldn't do that.
There are two reasons why we can't call them gods in the English version. Most importantly, that's not what Kami means. The other reason is that there's a vast cultural difference. Pokemon really are "Nature Spirits", so in Japanese culture, it's okay to refer to them as Kami. In English culture, however, we can't call them "Gods", even if we mean it in the sense of the Norse and Greco-Roman gods. Am I saying that one culture is right and one is wrong? No.
As for comparing Lugia to Triton, there's quite a difference between the two. We know and respect that there were at one point people that worshiped Loki, Thor, Zeus, and Triton as very real gods, as real as Christians today believe in God.
Pokemon, however... save perhaps for a few people that are in need of psychiatric help, nobody worships Lugia as a god. Lugia and the other Pokemon are admittedly fictional characters, and this fact is commonly accepted by everyone. While non-Christians may claim that the Christian god is fictional, there is a body of people that believes that that god is real. By the same token, there were people that believed Zeus and company were real. Nobody believes or believed that Lugia is real.
Lugia =/= Triton.
Anyways, while I've made several points, the main point here is, again, Kami =/= God. Because America is mainly monotheistic, we as a whole most commonly define "God" as similar to the definition used by Christianity and Judaism rather than the definition used by polytheistic religions.
Moza suggested to me over AIM a decent term that might be the closest English translation of Kami - Demigod. *shrug*
Hope that wasn't terribly hard to figure out. I have a solid argument against what you said, I'm just really bad at putting my arguments into words.
Who cares about who in the real world worships Lugia? In the Pokémon world, there is definite religious significance applied to him. If you're arguing anything else, you're missing the point and thus are wasting your time.
Also, Lugia is a real figure in Shinto mythology.
Anyway, as I've said, my arguments are that "god" is not a bad translation for "kami" when you don't ignore the fact that "god" is not universally synonymous with "all-powerful creator figure".
The Greco-Roman ancients had gods, demigods, and all sort of animistic "elementals", or nature spirits. And in that respective order was represented the hierarchy of non-human powers. I think it's fine to say that Kami are related to the lowest rung - the nature spirits. However, a traditional nature spirit isn't of a power to be able to create other "new" forms as Mew apparently is able to. Mew, in this creator aspect, is definitely on the highest rung - a god. Perhaps it's not culturally appropriate to describe Pokemon other than as Kami in Japan, though there is a case that they can be more than Kami-cum-nature spirits.
I'd like to know, though, how the original "Pocket Monster" came to be identified with Kami? I'd have thought a monster was more of a unique physical manifestation of some grotesque form, rather than a form that represents species of creatures that have some spiritual aspect.
I'd like to know, though, how the original "Pocket Monster" came to be identified with Kami? I'd have thought a monster was more of a unique physical manifestation of some grotesque form, rather than a form that represents species of creatures that have some spiritual aspect.
Burninating_Torchic
New Member
There is a religious significance applied to Lugia because the Pokemon world is based off of the Shinto religion more than any other philosophy or religion.
The issue here is that America is quick to censor that religious significance. America as a whole does not deny that people believe/believed that the Christian God, Loki, Zeus, etc really exist. The problem is that Pokemon is a fictional world, and as such, it should not have religious significance. In Japan, the Pokemon world's beliefs are similar to those of the predominant religion, so there's no problem. In America, however, there's a problem with promoting religion in a fictional universe.
I am not denying that there's a religious significance applied to Lugia in the original Japanese version of the Pokemon world. I'm merely trying to explain why America does not want to apply that same religious significance.
What you're saying is that American society is quick to censor fictional religions. As I've said above, the hypersensitive Christians and Jews need to accept that, hey, depicting a non-Judeo-Christian religion (even to children!) isn't going to corrupt society beyond repair.
It's something I've said since the beginning here, you know. ¬_¬
It's something I've said since the beginning here, you know. ¬_¬
He is 100% right. People in America can be INSANELY crazy about their beliefs. I started a thread talking about Lucifer in the RTC about a week ago, and it got deleted when there were good discussions going on, and I was banned. The reason was for trolling. Obviously the mods on this site are such religious people. Anyway, with people protesting things like abortion because it goes against "their" religion (THEN DON'T GET ONE), and with no one having the guts to tell them to shut up, its no surprise that people take their religion seriously for everything.
I wondered why that thread went, to be honest. I certainly never saw any trolling or even very much religious disrespect in that thread.
Burninating_Torchic
New Member
I think the explanation that the mods would like to use (I may be wrong, so mods, please feel free to correct me) is that Satanism is child-inappropriate, or something like that.
z-man
New Member
If Pokemon had a bible, it would be like a religion. If Pokemon was like a religion, they would get sued by people who think that their kids are perticipating in a different kind of religion than the one their family wants them perticipating in. Even if Pokemon wins, they would be too scared to publish more of the bibles (like with that Kadabra thing). In the end, if Pokemon were to make a bible, they would not publish any after the first 6 months because of being attacked by law suits. They should put their time and effort into making something that wouldn't make them the biggest law suit target on cartoonnetwork.