Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Suggestion for PTOs: Update round pairings and standings via your website

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Protecting the connection with a key (above WEP strength) posted inside the venue should be enough for security.

You... probably shouldn't try this with hundreds of people intending to connect to a single router. I haven't tried this myself (I do however know it's possible in theory), but I'd imagine you'd be fine with anywhere shy of 50 connections, assuming your router allows that many, and as long as not everyone tries to connect to the server at the same time. Between 50 and 100 would probably be stretching it, but could work with a good router. I didn't really think of these huge events though, I was thinking more about the midsize ones scattered around the world in remote locations without Internet access.

The debate then is what happens if somebody signs up for the tourney, gets the key, and passes it on.

But if you're only going to do it for a 50ish person tournament, is there any point in doing it at all? It's not like it takes 50 people that long to look at a piece of paper, especially if you post it twice.
 
I'd really love it if PTOs posted the matchups and results online round-by-round. For the past two years I've been coordinating live updates throughout North America and Europe for the video game and it would be so much easier if we could just grab info from the PTOs directly rather than having players on the field reporting back via WhatsApp / Twitter / Facebook / Texts.

Mystery Thing, considering you need to fill out a registration form and deck list anyway, I don't see an issue with adding a quick waiver to that? I mean, isn't the waiver allowing TPCi to use images of you already a part of that?

With TOM exporting the rounds in HTML anyway I don't see this being too hard.
 
Mystery Thing, considering you need to fill out a registration form and deck list anyway, I don't see an issue with adding a quick waiver to that? I mean, isn't the waiver allowing TPCi to use images of you already a part of that?

What happens when little johnny from 2 states over that came with friends forgets his decklist? All it would take is one minor in the entire tournament doing that to blow the entire thing up.

I don't know what all the stock "you showed up, ergo we own your soul" thing covers. I'm sure it covers likeness, but I doubt it covers identity. I honestly don't know.
 
The debate then is what happens if somebody signs up for the tourney, gets the key, and passes it on.

One of the benefits for this overall idea was to widely share the information, like seeing what's going on in a tournament you couldn't attend. So attempting to have a local WiFi network doesn't help meet that at all.

Mystery Thing, considering you need to fill out a registration form and deck list anyway, I don't see an issue with adding a quick waiver to that? I mean, isn't the waiver allowing TPCi to use images of you already a part of that?

With TOM exporting the rounds in HTML anyway I don't see this being too hard.

Agreed, but only if everyone signs the waiver. A PTO couldn't make the waiver a requirement to participate in the tournament, so it becomes difficult if the net result is that some people's information can be shown and some cannot.

Tichris is still working on a few things, it should be possible to spread AirCutter when things are complete.

This is very close to what I was imagining, though it's interesting he has no problem showing full names for Juniors and Seniors.
 
One of the benefits for this overall idea was to widely share the information, like seeing what's going on in a tournament you couldn't attend. So attempting to have a local WiFi network doesn't help meet that at all.



Agreed, but only if everyone signs the waiver. A PTO couldn't make the waiver a requirement to participate in the tournament, so it becomes difficult if the net result is that some people's information can be shown and some cannot.



This is very close to what I was imagining, though it's interesting he has no problem showing full names for Juniors and Seniors.

I think that maybe he has a different sort of contract since it's in Europe and done through LDs. Or the minors there have different treatment? Not sure, really.

I know this has a lot of potential, and from what I've read and heard, this idea is being thought of and people are trying it in different places, like that European site for example.

The legality issue is definitely an important issue. I think it can be worked around, though.


I hope we are all in agreement that this could be a great thing for the game. Being able to see other tournaments, and being able to streamline the events even just a little bit more makes everything look and feel better as a player, and I'm sure from an organizing standpoint.

This idea isn't intended to replace paper pairings, but to work alongside it. I think it will make the event a little faster and smoother, and allow for more media and publicity for each event.

---------- Post added 11/07/2012 at 09:09 PM ----------

The debate then is what happens if somebody signs up for the tourney, gets the key, and passes it on.

But if you're only going to do it for a 50ish person tournament, is there any point in doing it at all? It's not like it takes 50 people that long to look at a piece of paper, especially if you post it twice.

I made a bunch of different points to highlight the versatility this could offer. Not only does it make things easier for players, but it makes match pairings viewable to those not at the tournament. It can be archived to retain information for people in the future. I would love to be able to look up who I played in what round at a past event- wouldn't you?

Ultimately, yes, the goal is to reduce the mob effect around pairings, and to speed things up. However, the implications and what results can be used in far-reaching ways, like being able to see other tournaments, and being able to archive the information for the future.
 
What happens when little johnny from 2 states over that came with friends forgets his decklist? All it would take is one minor in the entire tournament doing that to blow the entire thing up.

I don't know what all the stock "you showed up, ergo we own your soul" thing covers. I'm sure it covers likeness, but I doubt it covers identity. I honestly don't know.
Wouldn't Johnny need to fill out a new decklist to enter? In any case, I didn't realize you could enter tournaments without signing the waiver so I guess it becomes a lot harder. The software would need to be able to tell who wants to stay anonymous. Too bad considering their names are usually online from players taking images and reporting results anyway.
 
Wouldn't Johnny need to fill out a new decklist to enter? In any case, I didn't realize you could enter tournaments without signing the waiver so I guess it becomes a lot harder. The software would need to be able to tell who wants to stay anonymous. Too bad considering their names are usually online from players taking images and reporting results anyway.

The names generated are in file formats where they can be manipulated by software to eliminate or alter names.

While this is a hiccup, it is something that can be worked around.

---------- Post added 11/07/2012 at 10:17 PM ----------

I've thought a lot about this, and was figuring how to make it part of PokeGym Labs.

Problem is, any mechanism to communicate pairings is not worth it. Text messages cost money (sent automatically from a central place) and can be unreliable given the cell service inside of a building and the different carriers. Same goes for a Web page...even if the PTO had Internet access to publish it, what about the player's ability to retrieve it? Especially knowing when? It would appear the savings is only the temporary crowding that happens at the printouts. That's easier to solve with more printouts, but PTOs barely want to bother with that. (Sorry for generalizing, I know space is often a constraint, but it's truly the easiest remedy.)

I'd agree that the biggest stages (Regionals, Nationals) would stand to benefit the most, but given how technology works I can envision people standing around with their smartphones waiting to get a page to load, rather than just walking up to a sheet of paper. I don't think significant time savings would be had by the end of the day, and in fact you're introducing more copies of the "truth" by having people perhaps going to the wrong table because they are looking at the wrong information on their smartphone.


Standings, however, could be interesting. Do most PTOs bother with standings in between rounds? Jimmy Ballard doesn't, but perhaps because he usually has really accurate computer entry. Worlds has intra-round standings, so I imagine POP could do it for Nationals if they so desired. So the opportunity is for Regionals and States and Cities, if people care that much.

I just wanted to come on here and apologize for redirecting my frustration at others' oppositions on you. I know you're trying to argue from both sides to try to get the issue more fleshed out. I know we can all work together to achieve this common goal, which I think has been shown to be beneficial on a number of different levels.
 
Another idea is to print to PDF as well as to the normal printer, and have the PDF be saved on the TO's site. Three PDFs would be linked to on the site (i.e. juniors.pdf, seniors.pdf, and masters.pdf), which would be replaced for each round. Very little hassle, and with the right configuration, could simply be two additional keystrokes.

EDIT: Well, with the anonymity issue, this wouldn't quite be the best idea, unless it were a local network that the file was saved on. I'm not sure how other TOs handle standings, as, like losjackal, I only know how Jimmy does it. In addition, at Top Cut Gaming, the Wi-Fi is password protected, so unless something is changed, there goes any internet- or intranet-based ideas.
 
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Wouldn't Johnny need to fill out a new decklist to enter?

Yes, but if he's from out of state and his parents aren't with him, there would be nobody there to sign off on him being allowed to have his name released. I suppose the legal guardian probably legally could, but that doesn't make it a good idea. It's one thing to be responsible for the person, but quite another to be responsible for what somebody else does to the person.

This would take the output programming of TOM being changed (and thus probably won't happen), but it would solve all the problems (on the legal side) if there was a way to output painings/match records/standings sheets that lets you choose between full names (for at the event) and only last initial (for outside posting).

Because yeah, obviously logistically it's a good idea, both in terms of the debusify the pairings boards at large events, and so those who couldn't attend could see what's up. But knowing the legal web that is all over the place so crazy much, I just don't see it :/
 
Why wont TOM ever support this?
Why won't TPCi put up pairings like this at nationals?

Answer : The litigious culture: TPCi are big enough to be worth suing. So unless they can show that they have to put up players names on a website as there is no other option that provides more privacy or that they have unequivocal permission it isn't going to happen.

If I publish names at one of my events then it is me that gets sued and not TPCi.

Your best hope is that TPCi might be able to link TOM's standings and pairings reports to a live update on your My Pokemon account. I'd really like to see that.
 
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RE: juniors

You don't have to put juniors' pairings online, how many of them have a smart phone or will be carrying a laptop around?
 
Why wont TOM ever support this?
Why won't TPCi put up pairings like this at nationals?

Answer : The litigious culture: TPCi are big enough to be worth suing. So unless they can show that they have to put up players names on a website as there is no other option that provides more privacy or that they have unequivocal permission it isn't going to happen.

If I publish names at one of my events then it is me that gets sued and not TPCi.

Your best hope is that TPCi might be able to link TOM's standings and pairings reports to a live update on your My Pokemon account. I'd really like to see that.

-or-

You remove the last names and replace them with first initials.

Problem solved.
 
..which will lead to confusion at an event.. Wasn't the primary motivation to avoid the crush at the pairings boards?
 
I'm very much interested in reducing potential confusion in any way possible...

The abbreviated last names could be for just the Juniors and Seniors. The biggest throngs of people are the Masters, their full names could be displayed.
 
STL is working on the problem as well.

WOW Worlds pairings were sent via twitter, and it was a 300+ person event.

There are multiple venues working on this.

Vince
 
This is what I believed when I came up with the idea of Aircutter: given the TO the possibility to automatically upload tournament reports on the web without any effort, even if 3 or 4 people with Internet data plans could jump the queue on pairings posting, that would have been a major success.

When we first tested AirCutter (at Milan SPT, last season's biggest in Europe), most of the players were not aware of the service until that very day and the location had no WiFi and poor signal. In spite of that, at the end of the tournament AirCutter received many positive feedback and raised a lot of interest among the players, even those from abroad. This even led (as my friend Zarmakuizz said) to a French, further developped version by Tichris.

What I'm saying is, people are asking for that. I would be very useful both for players and TOs. Large tournaments could even save HOURS. Privacy issues can be overcome in many ways, and SMS/Twitter/Facebook/whatever notifications are nothing out of this world with some basic programming skills and good organization.

That's some good stuff to think about.
 
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