Thieves caught on video at Worlds, TPCi does nothing

[Benzo]

Fair enough. I assure you there are at least 99 things I'd rather be doing than posting on a Pokemon forum about someone I've never met (and hope to never meet). It just seems to me that TPCi has made an error here that needs to be corrected.

I accept your reply. And agree. Improvement all around will benefit the Pokémon community from all aspects. I do think this thread would have been better productive if it was presented differently though...................

 

[KG1337]

I can't speak to every aspect of the criticism being directed our way in this thread, but I did want to touch on one issue that I think is a source of confusion.

There is a lot of talk in this thread about precedent. What most of you could not possibly know is the number of reports we get from hotels about various kinds of bad behavior that can happen at a hotel or on their property. Everything from wild 18th birthday parties to players a bit too hyped and loud on energy drinks at 2am.

In the vast majority of these situations we have allowed the hotel to handle these issues, because legally, this is their responsibility. It’s part of what they are paid for. In fact, we know for a fact that the stuff they end up telling us about is only a portion of what the hotels actually end up dealing with, because the Pokémon is a tight community and we probably hear more than you guys think we do.

What I am getting at is that from our perspective, those incidents vastly outnumber the exceptions that have been made and makes our recent decision very much in line with the precedent we have set. I believe that the majority of players would prefer that we continue to allow the hotel to handle these kinds of issues.

So some hotel parties get loud or obnoxious? Okay, great. These complaints you mentioned do not involve players doing anything that could threaten another player's personal property at a future event. You completely ignore the majority of the arguments put forth in this thread, and presumably you do so because you are unable to refute them. TPCi's actions are indefensible at this juncture.

The reality is, players are concerned about the safety and security of their property at events where there are known thieves. You have been exposed to a substantial amount of evidence which would suggest that these individuals absolutely pose a threat to other participants at future events, and yet you refuse to do anything about it because of some purely perceived parallel you have found in what TPCi feels is a logical comparison? The reality is, it is not a logically equivalent benchmark.

As a company hosting events for profit-making purposes, the primary concern of your business should be to maximize the safety of your customers at events. Does TPCi's decision do this? Absolutely not. You are knowingly exposing players to thieves which is absolutely unacceptable, and quite frankly, as a long time player, I'm furious.

 

[Glaceon]

@ franjime:
I didn't say this was a court of law. That was an example was all. I also do not wish to have future incidents like this happen to any one. And I did say I found it ok to vent and the sort.
What I do not like is the "mob mentality" type postings that are acting like a judge and jury that is going beyond reasonable discussion on this matter. Just how I see it.
There are a lot of entities that play a part or surround this topic, it is counter productive to bash or single out those entities out of frustration for a discussion to continue before people do stop caring or contributing because the discussion has gone into that direction or is further fueled by not knowing all the facts and simple blaming without reason.

@Glaceon:

The number of criminals in this world are outnumbered by those who choose NOT to do criminal deeds or participate in illegal activities. Theft prevention is a result of trial and error methods of future safeguarding of valuable items. Everyone is capable of committing a crime, it is only so many who act on those criminal actions.

So wouldn't you rather limit crime as much as possible to reduce the crime rate?

 

[Benzo]

@ Glaceon:

I would rather limit the value of items that are in high "demand" so those items are less desirable for people to want to steal those items. Since neither of these options will ever happen, we all will be a continuous loop of victim and criminals.

 

[TAndrewT]

Andrew - problem is it was at the hotel, not at the event so I think the main question you bring up is good morals among pokemon players.

Nope, from a public relations perspective, it really does not matter whether it took place at the hotel or at the event, TPCi still inherits some of the public's blame. And from a legal perspective, TPCi, event organizers, and venues (at least in the U.S.) retain the right to allow or disallow players to play at events for cause, as long as that cause is not discriminatory. They are not required by law to demonstrate that a crime occurred on their event's premises to invoke this right. TCPi's decision not to ban these players is their decision alone.

 

[Swordfish1989]

Theft sucks. In a court- how much strength does "feelings" hold in a theft case? A judge IMO who has served 20+ years on the bench would strait up ask the victim why they would leave something so precious to them just sitting in a hotel Lobby.

How would YOU answer that question? I am sure the judge would point out that the victim has some level of responsibility in this and should accept it.

This is the most hilarious things I've read on pokegym so far. And BY FAR THE WORST

A judge would not ask the victim why they didn't do X. You know what the judge would do? The judge would uphold a court room while the two lawyers argued, the jury would deliberate based on the evidence provided, and if found guilty the judge would assign the sentence. AT NO POINT DOES THE JUDGE QUESTION THE VICTIM ON WHAT THEY DID!

What the heck are you watching, Judge Judy? And even Judge Judy doesn't do that!

My goodness... this blew my mind in its absence of the lowest level of knowledge on how our court system works.

Oh, and the victim blaming. Exactly HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?! Seriously. I had my house broken into a few years ago. We keep our doors locked and live in a gated community under heavy security. Someone STILL broke in and took over $50,000 (yes, 50k!) worth of stuff from me and my folks. But I guess it was my fault because I didn't stay at home 24/7.

 

[Ness]

What most of you could not possibly know is the number of reports we get from hotels about various kinds of bad behavior that can happen at a hotel or on their property. Everything from wild 18th birthday parties to players a bit too hyped and loud on energy drinks at 2am... I believe that the majority of players would prefer that we continue to allow the hotel to handle these kinds of issues.

Well, first of all, let me point out the obvious: Wild parties and loud hotel rooms are not nearly as serious a threat to the community as two known thieves roaming the tournament hall.

But more importantly, I think most of would agree we prefer the hotel be the ones to step in when someone's behavior is ruining someone else's trip, and in Mees's instance, the hotel did everything it could. They provided the video evidence, they allowed Mees to view it, and they wrote a detailed report, even including the pictures Mees and his friends were allowed to see to identify the thieves.

This is where you guys at TPCi need to step in. The hotel did its part, and now its up to you guys to take steps to protect your players so these two don't find a way to steal from players at a future event.

 

[Benzo]

This is the most hilarious things I've read on pokegym so far. And BY FAR THE WORST

A judge would not ask the victim why they didn't do X. You know what the judge would do? The judge would uphold a court room while the two lawyers argued, the jury would deliberate based on the evidence provided, and if found guilty the judge would assign the sentence. AT NO POINT DOES THE JUDGE QUESTION THE VICTIM ON WHAT THEY DID!

What the heck are you watching, Judge Judy? And even Judge Judy doesn't do that!

My goodness... this blew my mind in its absence of the lowest level of knowledge on how our court system works.

Oh, and the victim blaming. Exactly HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?! Seriously. I had my house broken into a few years ago. We keep our doors locked and live in a gated community under heavy security. Someone STILL broke in and took over $50,000 (yes, 50k!) worth of stuff from me and my folks. But I guess it was my fault because I didn't stay at home 24/7.

Perhaps a little bit more clarification is needed, on my part.

First- I do not think that something such as this would even require a jury to decide anything, it comes off as more of a small claims court issue. Thus, part of the influence on my line of thinking and reasoning. I am glad it humored you though- better then me posting in a bashing manner or taking a shot at someone for a comment, right?
Second- Sorry that your house was broken into, but you saying that proves that theft can still happen regardless.
Third- Victim blaming- I should rephrase what I said for clarification: A hotel Lobby is still a place where the general public can enter and exit, thus leaving open the opportunity that anyone has access to items left out in the open. I myself would question a person who left items out in the open in such a manner as to why they believed that it is 100% secure and would in a way would like to see the person "learn" by accepting a part of the responsibility of being more so responsible in the future- the learning from that experience is the "accepting" part is all. But that is just me.
Fourth: How much did your "feelings" play a part in getting the result you were wanting for an result to your loss? Just asking is all, not a jab at you.
Fifth: Presentation to a subject plays a big part on getting positive attention to a subject faster with better results when it is thought out and the discussion is productive in moving forward, and those who participate do not focus on just bashing or generalizing/nit picking comments to prove a point- which I do see a good amount of this in this thread- as how I perceive it.

 

[Glaceon]

@ Glaceon:

I would rather limit the value of items that are in high "demand" so those items are less desirable for people to want to steal those items. Since neither of these options will ever happen, we all will be a continuous loop of victim and criminals.

You can't lower the price of a Macbook...

And I repeat: Why not take preventative action when you can? What is the benefit?

 

[Benzo]

@ Glaceon:

I will rephrase that as well, for better clarification:
You are correct that I do not put the price tag on the item, but the value would increase to me personally if I put/placed/added more value onto the item after obtaining it. The more I put on the personal value of something, that would determine the "priceless" value on my own terms and that would prompt me to keep better watch on what I value.

I would take preventative action of course when I can. Same as anyone else. But it would have to start with ME, no one else. The benefit would be that I took the first step to be preventative in the first place. If my own preventative methods fail, I would still accept some amount/degree of responsibility of not fully protecting my belongings. I guess I am "old school" per say in that area, since I do have past history and work experience in theft prevention.

 

[Malocide]

I am not sure if TPCI has the "jurisdiction" for lack of better word to ban someone who did not do something during the event nor on direct event grounds. I do feel like more should be done but I am not sure its their place. I never even heard what happened with the police but I am sure its worse than a ban.

That all being said I do feel like we the community have a right to "ban" them in a sense and what I mean by this if the evidence is clear and we feel threatened as a Pokemon community should watch them like hawks and catch them when they do it again. If they have to walk on eggshells and everyone gives them the cold shoulder at every event is that just as bad as being banned if not worse. Every game pile shuffle them. Every time they are around watch your stuff. Warn the staff at the event. Speak up about this offense and past offences. I am sure this is not the first nor the last time. Its a matter of time before they get banned for a new offence.

 

[JandPDS]

I am not sure if TPCI has the "jurisdiction" for lack of better word to ban someone who did not do something during the event nor on direct event grounds. I do feel like more should be done but I am not sure its their place. I never even heard what happened with the police but I am sure its worse than a ban.

That all being said I do feel like we the community have a right to "ban" them in a sense and what I mean by this if the evidence is clear and we feel threatened as a Pokemon community should watch them like hawks and catch them when they do it again. If they have to walk on eggshells and everyone gives them the cold shoulder at every event is that just as bad as being banned if not worse. Every game pile shuffle them. Every time they are around watch your stuff. Warn the staff at the event. Speak up about this offense and past offences. I am sure this is not the first nor the last time. Its a matter of time before they get banned for a new offence.

Have you even read this thread?? Pokémon banned someone for getting into a shoving match at an airport on the way home from Worlds once. I kinda think that counts as their jurisdiction extending beyond event grounds.

 

[eauxmar]

I feel as though TCPi is sweeping this entire situation under the rug and calling it a day. There should definitely be reconsideration on the decision made.

 

[Articjedi]

Have you even read this thread?? Pokémon banned someone for getting into a shoving match at an airport on the way home from Worlds once. I kinda think that counts as their jurisdiction extending beyond event grounds.

I remember that one, that was also after 2006 worlds. They handed out suspensions like candy that year. 5 years for underaged drinking (among other things), 1 year for a shoving match at the airport in london, 2 years for stealing from players after the main event was over sunday night....​

 

[Yacine Machine]

I was one of the players in the lobby when all of this went down. I assured a panicked Mees that, with the evidence stacking up, he would hopefully get his stuff back and at the very least there'd be no way that Gino and Jon's actions would go unpunished. I sit here dumbfounded by TPCI's response.

Let's imagine a very possible scenario in the future if the decision to not 'take any disciplinary action' stands. Mees, Jon and Gino are all competent players. It is not unlikely that they will all be at Worlds next year. It is ridiculous and unfair that Mees should have to be in the vicinity of the people who STOLE from him. If I found myself in Mees' position, I cannot imagine behaving in a manner that doesn't warrant a 'suspension to players who disrupt other players or the events they attend.' We have a situation in which Mees is forced to keep his cool because the powers that be have turned a blind eye.

Disgraceful imo.

 

[littleryan18]

I think its completely unthinkable to allow Gino to keep going to tournaments if he thinks he can get away with anything. Pokemon tournaments have always been a place where everyone can feel safe and know that this community respects each other enough to not steal anything. This honestly is like a game for him.
TPCi can't just sit back and let thieves play in the game, especially when they have basically admitted to doing it and made cute remarks about it over Facebook!
Mees deserves to have even a small amount of justice given to him since he is losing the most (his laptop) out of what happened. There can't just be no punishment and everyone just hopes this won't happen again. Look how easily they got away with this?? Why wouldn't someone just do this again?? Get as many free cards as you can and steal valuable possessions and just walk away with no punishment?? Its just unbelievable.

 

[homeofmew]

Also just remembered another VGC ban that took place in 2012:

At the UK Nationals in 2012 (the same one that Ruben ended up winning) Daniel Nolan (Worlds Top 8 2011, competed in Worlds 2013) was banned for the rest of the season (remaining European Nationals + LCQ in Hawaii) because he took one of the very small Pokemon signs (less than 8"x11.5") that said "Bathroom" on it. (He says a staff member told him it was OK). He later went on to post on a forum about taking the sign, and received a swift ban from TPCi. This meant he could not compete in another European National the following week, which he already booked his ticket for. This one wasn't like Ruben's case where it blew up all over social media, the only players who really knew of the incident were those who read that forum.

A six month ban for taking a small sign after the tournament was over.

Think about that one.

Perhaps I'm a bit bitter after seeing my VGC friends receive severe punishments, and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they shouldn't have received any repercussion for what they did... still trying to figure this one out though.

The Sign story I find odd. but yeah depending on the sign it is TPCI property, yeah but always ask the person running the event aka the Tournament Organizer for the event, not some random staff.

 

[Ditto]

It boggles my mind that this didn't warrant an immediate ban for the thieves. As many people have pointed out, other players have been banned for far less. This seems pretty cut and dry based on everything we know. It's not too late for TCPi to do the right thing.

 

[thefleeee]

Hey guys, my name is Rahul Reddy, I am 17 years old and from Virginia, and I wanted to respond to a post where I was accused of cheating at the Last Chance Event at Nationals.

Unfortunately… yes, it is true. I did cheat at the LCE.

I had always been an honest, fair player. It was at Nationals that I began hanging out with some new friends, including Gino Lombardi, and he began showing me how easy it was to cheat. For some reason, I looked up to Gino, and wanting to make friends, was happy to let him teach me his tricks. Besides using hand signals and intimidating his opponents into conceding, one trick Gino showed me in particular involved pulling a card out of my discard pile ("palming" it) after distracting an opponent. At the Last Chance Event, with a Worlds invitation on the line, and Gino pressuring me to get my invite "under any circumstances," I experienced a moment of weakness and succumbed to pressure by trying to palm a card from my discard pile. I was caught by the judge and disqualified.

I take full blame for what I did. I don't blame Gino. I was foolish and naive to believe Gino was cool or this kind of behavior was acceptable in our game. When I tried to pull that card out of my discard pile, I didn't realize how damaging to the game it actually was. Looking now at how many great people there are in the community, it's obvious to me this kind of mentality and behavior have no place in Pokémon.

After everything that happened, reading Mees's posts, and all the drama, I had an epiphany. Gino isn't cool. He isn't a role model. He's an arrogant thug that thinks he is above the rules. There's no doubt in my mind he took Mees's computer. I watched him swipe a bottle of water from one of the restaurants at the food court in Vancouver, then boast about it.

I screwed up. I made a bad choice and I sincerely regret it. Whatever the consequences of my poor choice, I'll face them. I just hope the community isn't above giving second chances, because I truly learned my lesson.

 

[Ness]

Hey guys, my name is Rahul Reddy, I am 17 years old and from Virginia, and I wanted to respond to a post where I was accused of cheating at the Last Chance Event at Nationals ... I screwed up. I made a bad choice and I sincerely regret it. Whatever the consequences of my poor choice, I'll face them. I just hope the community isn't above giving second chances, because I truly learned my lesson.

Rahul,
As disappointed as I am to learn that you cheated, I admire you for having the courage to post what you did. I certainly am not above giving second chances, and I'm sure there's plenty of other people in our community that feel the same way. I'm not sure what the consequences are for admitting to cheating on a forum, but one thing is for sure: Whenever your next tournament is, I'm sure judges will be watching you like a hawk.

While many people may be open to the idea of second chances, few are open to the idea of third or fourth chances. I hope you are sincere when you write that you have learned a lesson, and I hope you make a clear transition to the "good side." The longer you play Pokémon, the more you'll notice that the people worth hanging out with at events are also the most honest and fair players of the game, too.