Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Please stop giving me packs!

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FunnyBear

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I'd like to make a suggestion to TOs. We are now paying $5-$10 to enter premier events and I've found most TOs use this money to bring prizes deep into the tournament rankings. Most masters do not need these packs (LT packs least of all) and most competitive players in any division don't either. I'd like to suggest that TOs think of ways to use the additional funds to make the tournament experience better for everyone. How about coffee and donuts before Rd 1 or ordering a dozen pizzas for lunch?

I can think of so many ideas better than giving product to players that don't need it. Or maybe I'm just hungry now.

What are some of your ideas?
 
I'd like to make a suggestion to TOs. We are now paying $5-$10 to enter premier events and I've found most TOs use this money to bring prizes deep into the tournament rankings. Most masters do not need these packs (LT packs least of all) and most competitive players in any division don't either. I'd like to suggest that TOs think of ways to use the additional funds to make the tournament experience better for everyone. How about coffee and donuts before Rd 1 or ordering a dozen pizzas for lunch?

I can think of so many ideas better than giving product to players that don't need it. Or maybe I'm just hungry now.

What are some of your ideas?

Please note- That TPCI/P!P set the base prizes of the tournament. These prizes pay out to T16 and yes does include the packs you are not a fan of. These prizes may not be reduced or changed, but things can be added to this. I haven't heard of TOs adding anything else beyond this though.
 
I would be down for paying a additional fee to fund food over the day for everyone. Food normally cost me at least 10-15 at events while Im there. Adding 5 bucks from each person could cover everyone getting drinks, at least 2 slices of pizza or paying the staff of a cafeteria (if at a school or location that has one) and snacks. I think this can go a long way if the community supports it. It will be cheaper for everyone.
 
Please note- That TPCI/P!P set the base prizes of the tournament. These prizes pay out to T16 and yes does include the packs you are not a fan of. These prizes may not be reduced or changed, but things can be added to this. I haven't heard of TOs adding anything else beyond this though.

Several of the Leagues Challenges in Washington are doing a $5 entry (all age groups), and everyone gets a booster pack. A few TO's did something similar with Cities - the $10 entry includes one pack of cards.
 
I disagree. As a collector, new-ish player, and TCG teacher to my young nephew I am loving these prizes. If I don't want the packs for whatever reason I just sell them for $3 each on campus so I can buy whatever cards me or my nephew need. It also helps to pay for travel expenses, food, etc.

P.D.: If you don't want yours I can give you an address to send them to and I'll gladly pay for shipping. I'm sure it would make my nephew extremely happy. :p
 
For better or worse, packs/boxes indeed have a value. They are a common currency among players. Players can of course open them, or keep them to trade away, or sell in person or on eBay. Yeah that takes some effort, but it's not unreasonable.

 
Yeah, I paid $10 this weekend and would have liked AT LEAST to have gotten a pack. I usually buy one box for each set but I STILL love opening up packs! Especially "free" ones.
 
It's also the matter of the set. Yes, LT is a bad set, we all know that. But you can sell, give away, trade, or open the packs and sell the contents. If you don't like the set, there's things you can do with the prizes. But when XY (and other good sets, frankly) comes out, and everyone is clamoring for the new set, nobody's going to complain about the one pack they got at the tournament.

I'm actually in full support of getting at least one pack at every premier tournament. We pay a minimum of $10 now, we should get something as compensation, instead of making an 0-X day a complete waste. One Cities, all masters but the bottom 4 got at least a pack--and I walked away empty-handed and $10 shorter. Our next Cities, I did better but still placed low, and got one pack (as did all the masters). I was happier the day I got one pack, because it didn't feel like a complete gamble anymore. We should get something more for our money and participation, even if it's a (bad) stamped card and a pack.
 
I think the reasoning behind giving packs with an entrance fee is to give players the feeling that they "at least got something" for coming out, as let's face it, the bulk of people who play aren't going to top cut, and it's those masters fees that are helping to subsidize the larger prizes for the ones that do top cut and the event in general.

That being said, having pizza or something is a pretty good use of the money as well, though the problem with that is that you aren't going to reach an overall consensus with food; maybe most want pizza, but what about the ones that don't or can't eat it due to dietary restrictions? Do you just tell em too bad, you lose out? So in that regard, card packs are safer in that even though you might not like them, they're a lot easier to get rid of via trading/selling and considering its the TCG, it keeps with the theme. I'd personally like to see entry fees reduced over a free card pack with entry fee, but that's not happening.
 
I used to supplement prizes at events with random prizes like Japanese sleeves / deck boxes / toys / Japanese gaming supplies. They were all pretty much a hit. If a TO can think ahead in the schedule and order in time, some of these could be available for prizes as well. Those who want packs can be given packs. Those who want other stuff can be accommodated (to a degree - sometimes Japanese products and supplies cost considerably more than the players entry fee). TO's should know their players and what works well for them. By all means suggestions about alternative prizing should be talked about with your TO.

EDIT: Hmmm .... after thinking this post over, I realize it might not be all that feasible. I don't know the ins and outs regarding the prize structure anymore, considering that I'm no longer a PTO anymore. However TPCi may have mandated a certain amount of supplies to be available for prizing to the top X number of players, which probably the PTO's have to pay for. If they weren't giving out those packs (and giving alternative prizing that I mentioned above instead), then they'd be stuck with a certain amount of prize support that they paid for but can't use. The chances are greater that it wouldn't happen. However, perhaps well established PTO's with brick and mortar stores could make it work. It's a suggestion nevertheless.
 
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Most masters do not need these packs (LT packs least of all) and most competitive players in any division don't either.
I used to think this. My more recent observations is that masters division players do not own all, if any, of the cards in their deck. They borrowed them in the time before the registration cut off time. This may not serve as a point about if they need the packs/cards or not because providing them with packs does not mean they will keep the cards on hand for use in decks but it does show they are not unneeded. If they aren't using the cards they win in decks, they must be using them for something else.
 
The point of the thread is not to argue that packs are useless, as they are for only some people. I find that in order to build the decks that I need to, I must pretty much buy everything I need before the tournament series starts.

The point is that I am now paying $10/event and I would hope that the quality of the event would improve because of it. Giving a 2-3 two packs as a participation prize is, IMO, not the best use of the additional funds.
 
What if instead of packs, you got points that could be redeemed for cards/packs on a website?

For example, making Top 4 at a City Championship currently gives you 10 packs.

Say these "packs" instead get converted into credits. So 1st gets 36 credits, 2nd 24 credits (or whatever it is now), 10 credits for 3/4th, etc.

Set the shop up as:

1 Credit - 10 PTCGO Booster Credits
1 Credit - 1 Pack of Old Set (That's still in stock)
1 Credit - 1 Pack of Current Set
1.5 Credit - 1 Pack of Future Set
3 Credit - Darkrai EX Promo
4 Credit - Sleeves
5 Credit - Genesect EX PLB
10 Credit - Playmats, Elite Trainer Boxes, etc.
25 Credit - Giant Plush Pikachu
50 Credit - Tropical Beach Promo
100 Credit - Life Size Snorlax Bean Bag Chair

Haven't put too much deep thought into it, but I think something like that would be more attractive of a prize structure than what we currently have. I know Magic the Gathering does something similar where you can cash out your online collection for real cards, so Pokemon can look to them for guidance on how to come up with such a system (on a smaller scale of course).
 
The point is that I am now paying $10/event and I would hope that the quality of the event would improve because of it. Giving a 2-3 two packs as a participation prize is, IMO, not the best use of the additional funds.
I'm not sure I understand what you are looking for. "the quality of the event would improve..." This is saying a lot. I'm be concerned if I ran events in Michigan. What kind of events are you talking about? League Challenges, City Championships, State Championships?
 
I play all over the Midwest as well as East coast, so this is not about Michigan.

I come from organized chess, in which you pay a lot more in entry fees as there is no corporate parent. Tournaments have rounds on a schedule that is published in advance. Play areas are nicer in general, with most scholastic events having tablecloths and sets. There is a lunch break that is announced in advance. At many events there are bagels and coffee in the morning rounds. Overall, it just seems like a higher quality experience.

If I were in charge of OP, I would not allow a tournament to go longer than 4 hours in a lower division without a lunch break. I consider this irresponsible and unacceptable and I have seen it happen too many times at both City and State level events. I was at a Cities this season where the venue did not even have a working water fountain or vending and the TO decided to play through top cut in Juniors and Seniors without a lunch break. Its this sort of thing that just gives the impression of poor organization and a lower quality experience.
 
I play all over the Midwest as well as East coast, so this is not about Michigan.

I come from organized chess, in which you pay a lot more in entry fees as there is no corporate parent. Tournaments have rounds on a schedule that is published in advance(1). Play areas are nicer in general, with most scholastic events having tablecloths and sets(2). There is a lunch break that is announced in advance(3). At many events there are bagels and coffee in the morning rounds. Overall, it just seems like a higher quality experience.

If I were in charge of OP, I would not allow a tournament to go longer than 4 hours in a lower division without a lunch break(4). I consider this irresponsible and unacceptable and I have seen it happen too many times at both City and State level events. I was at a Cities this season where the venue did not even have a working water fountain (5)or vending and the TO decided to play through top cut in Juniors and Seniors without a lunch break(6). Its this sort of thing that just gives the impression of poor organization and a lower quality experience.

1. We've tried this. The problem in Pokémon is there's a lot of variation in play time. You can have entire decks organized around different paces of play. 'Aggro' decks that swing hard and fast, or 'stall' decks that milk the clock. So a round may finish 15 minutes early, or go till time and then some. In the past organizers have tried giving out guideline schedules, but players tend to get mad if their guidelines are even slightly off, never mind the fact that there's nothing organizers can do short of cutting games off that will guarantee the rounds complete at time. Hopefully with the introduction of draws we won't see an entire tournament delayed for one game at +5 because no one can take a prize.

2. Not sure about where you've been playing, but organizers try hard to make sure their event space is at least neat and orderly, if not pretty. I've seen tablecloths used before, but one thing to keep in mind is that most organizers are going to be focused on speed. There's a lot of stuff involved in setting up a tournament - flyers, deck lists, the computer, the printer, table numbers, etc. Our goal is to set up fast, run the event smoothly, and then pack up fast. A lot of players bring their own mats, and even if they don't as long as the tables are clean there's no need to have anything underneath. All that's necessary is the deck, which the player is in charge of.

3. This refers back again to #1, but schedules are very fluid in Pokemon. Most often what you'll get is an announcement that lunch will be "after round X". But as we have no way of knowing exactly when that will be, we have no way of announcing it in advance.

4. Time schedules can get very tight. What's a better option, having no lunch break so the players have to go when they finish a game early, or having a lunch break and then getting kicked out of the venue because you went too long? Particularly with all-day events, tournaments often run from as soon as we can get in the shop until they're about to close. Problem is that once a venue closes, the TO may have to scramble for an alternate venue. I was at a tournament once where we had to reroute to a fast food place for Top Cuts. Not fun. Rest assured that any decision made regarding breaks has likely been thought out by the TO, and that they're under just as much crunch as the players if not moreso.

5. Hey, I had this happen! It actually happened at our Regionals this year. Yes, it was ugly. Players were thirsty and we had to tell them to go across the street. Yes, we contacted the venue. What did they do? Nothing. What could we do? Nothing. Things break, and it's generally bad timing when they do. Again, it's out of our control. We try our hardest to make sure that everything is working and available for players, but sometimes things happen.

6. Concerning schedules with Juniors and Seniors, there's a lot to think about. Depending on the attendance gaps between divisions, Juniors and Seniors generally run (in my area) about 2/3 the time of the Masters. This can get awkward. First off, we want everyone to be on the same schedule, so we want Juniors and Seniors to take any lunches they have at the same time as the Masters. Second, there are a lot of families that have ONLY Juniors and Seniors (again, I'm speaking of my area). At the time we'd LIKE to give everyone a lunch break, sometimes the Juniors/Seniors only have one more round left to go. I'm supposed to tell a family of tired, cranky, possibly crying children that they have to wait 45 minutes for one more round that may take 10 minutes? It's better just to push through.

In conclusion, there's a lot that goes on on the organizer end that most players don't have to deal with. It's our job to make sure they don't have to deal with it. If it means that a few people get unhappy or think that our events are "a lower quality experience" and our people are "irresponsible and unacceptable", well, that's the price we pay for trying. But we will always, always work to make sure we can run the best events we can.
 
FunnyBear, I agree that broken water fountains and no vending is unacceptable. However, in line with what AyameHikaru said, I think more people are looking for efficiency to be the experience instead of add-ons. Both players and parents appreciate that. Question parents always ask: "when will the event end" / "when should I be back to pick up my child?" Prolonging the set up time by setting up bagels and coffee means starting the tournament later. Seeing that should be a red flag to players. It signals "we're going to take our time getting this event going so here is something to hold you over until round 1."

While tablecloths look great in pictures--I saw a picture of a Florida event using the old theme deck paper playmats giving out at prereleases--but most players bring their own mats. Play mats are even given out as prizes. It is a mute point. Unless the table is unfinished wood (that happened at one event I went to when we ended up playing on tabletop games table), tablecloths prove more cumbersome because they make it difficult for the players to pick up or move the cards.
 
Depends on the tournament and the location. When I was running tournaments in the middle of nowhere, Illinois, the venue had these cute little 5-foot by 1.5 foot tables. You can't play a game of Pokemon on a table like that. So I had to double the width of the tables. But then there was the crease in between the tables, and cards kept falling between that. So I bought one of those giant rolls of plastic tablecloth so that wouldn't be an issue. For most venues, this wouldn't be a problem. But for this particular venue (and you couldn't ask for a better library venue than this), it needed the extra TLC.
 
Like I said about the event where the players ended up playing on an unfinished wood table, a tablecloth is a nice solution to an existing issue of the table.
 
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