2 Questions regarding Heatran LvX (Discuss)

[ShuckleLVX]

So, I posted this on "Ask the rules team" over a week ago, and have yet to recieve a response, implying to me that they are stumped and need to ask Japan (Or just want to double check). So, until we get an official response, I would like to open it up to everyone ^_-

Heatrans Power Heat Wave says its activated at the end of your turn, which brings up these questions:

If your opponent has an Active Glaceon LvX (Preventing use of Poke-Powers), and you knock it out with Moltres's Scorching Wing (Discard all fire energy attached to Moltres), would you be allowed to use Heat Wave to reattach up to two of those energy? My understanding is yes, as Pokemon are knocked out at the end of the Attack phase, while End of Turn would take place after the Attack phase was completed.
This is the way it was ruled at Citys last night, just wanted to double check.

My other question is in regards to Mespirit (Or similar effects) which prevent use of powers "Until the end of your opponents next turn". The way its worded could be veiwed as 'Up until the point "End of Turn"', allowing an effect that took place AT the end of the turn to still work. Or, it could be 'Up to and including the point "End of Turn"', in which case you would be unable to use Heat Wave.
This never came up, but the question came up in my mind after the first situation arose.

The first question is cut and dry, and I only asked to double check, the 2nd one is the doosie.

Now, I spoke to BDS personaly today, and he said, at least for the duration of the tournament, the ruling would be that yes, Heatran would be allowed to use the power. But I would love to hear other oppinions, and bring the issue to light, as I wouldnt be surprised if, with the popularity of Gardevoir(Not so much anymore but...)/Mespirit and Heatran LvX, this were to come up in other tournaments.

What do you guys think? Judges/TO's, how would you rule at your own events, at least until we have an official ruling?

 

[pikachu*]

The first one is an obvious yes cause of the fact that Glaceon X has been knocked out and thus out of the situation meaning that you can use the power.

The second one, I would think that Mesprits power would still apply, cause it says your 'opponents next turn', and heatran says attach at the end of your turn. So, Mesprits power would still apply since the end of your turn is still your turn.

Cheers.

 

[Prime]

If the 'end of the opponent's turn' is a singular event, in which multiple events cannot be stacked upon, then in theory, both Mesprit and Heatran would activate and deactivate each other at the same exact time, which would mean that by the time Mesprit's effect wears off, it wouldn't be the 'end of the opponent's turn' phase, it would be inbetween turns, and thus Heatran lv.X's Poke-Power wouldn't be given a chance to use it's ability.

On the other hand, if the 'end of the opponent's turn' is considered a phase, like so much else is, then there could be layers to it, or windows of time, in which both Mesprit's effect and Heatran's effect could resolve, but in which order? Nobody knows. If Mesprit's effect resolves first, then Heatran would be able to use it's ability. If Heatran's ability resolved first then Mesprit's effect would disable it.

So, it really comes down to if the 'end of a turn' is a phase or just a singular moment. From there, if it turns out to be a phase, then the question becomes, which effect triggers last?

 

[NoPoke]

I only have two parts in the round structure.

my turn
between turns
your turn
between turns
my turn
between turns
etc etc.
​

So I'd be thinking that since Heatran does not activate between turns it must be during the turn, even if right at the very end.

With more things pilling onto the very end of turn it would be good to know if end of turn is a distinct time and that the actual structure is

my turn
my end of turn
between turn
your turn
your end of turn
between turn
etc.
​

The main action taking place at the end of turn would be the removal of pokemon who are out of HP. Heatran would join it and there would be others too. If this is the case then we really do have a game with many phases, instead of the much simpler my turn - your turn

 

[Rogue Archetype]

This is how I see it...
(could be wrong but... )

You reattaching energies using a power is NOT between turns. You're still performing actions and utilizing powers.
Your opponent is still waiting for you to finish. So, what you're doing is FINISHING YOUR TURN...

Mesprit would block the power. So, I'd say NO to Heat Wave there.

Glaceon LvX is no longer on the Playmat. So the BODY is gone.
Glaceon is removed from active position and you'd reattach energy w/ Heat Wave.

There the RA ruling . .. :biggrin:

 

[Chairman Kaga]

It would probably help if someone would actually look at the correct wording on Mesprit. It makes no mention of "end of turn" as the OP suggests:

powr: Psychic Bind
Once during your turn, when you put Mesprit onto your Bench, you may use this power. Your opponent can't use any Poke-Powers on his or her Pokemon during your opponent's next turn.

The end of your turn is still during your turn. No Heat Wave for you.

 

[fragnito]

mesprit is the easy answer because mesprit's power ends after the turn and heatran power initiates after the attack phase but during the turn: it reads "once at the end of your turn, " clearly indicating that the effect doesnt trigger between turns, which doesnt get around mesprit's power which lasts the entire duration of the opponents turn

glaceon is tougher because does the pokemon die during the attack phase? obviously the damage is applied in the attack phase so the answer would be yes, therefore stopping glaceon's power at the end of the attack phase which allows heatran's power to trigger after the attack phase and before the end of your turn