A change for the better.....

[meganium45]

It is also another version of advertising for them, and point of pride for the players.

Older player probably don't care...but I know a lot of kids who would get a REAL KICK out of seeing their "name in lights" on the OP site, highlighting their deck list and announcing their win!

More traffic to the OP site (Grandma has to see too!), and more encouragement for other players to get their "name up in lights"...essentially another prize in the pool!

Talk to you all soon!

Vince

 

[PokePop]

I consider Netdecking when a player goes online with out any sort of pre made list and copies 90%-100% of a list. Look at Turn 2 who made it vrs how many people were playing it in the end, same with ambush Jimmy and a small hand full of people built the deck but at nats there were quite a few people playing it.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

At the very least can everyone agree POP should post more lists from the top cut at Worlds.

How can you say "Ambush" was netdecked?
It was never on the net before Nats!
It was shared amoug friends, passed along by word of mouth.
Sure, a lot of people did play it at nats, but not a single one of them got it from a public internet website.
That's the "net" part of "net"deck.

And, in fact, that's what posting decks would do; level the playing field for those players not lucky enough to be in the clique that a good deck gets passed among.

How is Player A (who know someone who knows someone who knows someone who can build a good deck) more deserving to do well at an event than Player B who just doesn't happen to be friends with the right people?

 

[bullados]

Not a single one of those should be called "netdecking".

Thx for that. Still, I got plenty of comments during the entire year about netdecking and not playing original decks, which I was kinda hurt by. I don't netdeck, I never have, and I never will. I only take ideas, and fit those ideas to my play style. My Flygon deck was pretty much the epitome of that, being pretty much a modified MegaQueen deck.

I have no problem with netdecking, though. Actually, I kinda like it. In general, netdeckers don't take the time to properly test their deck out. They tend to just pick up the list and run with it. You could give my exact Electranite list (2 2nds, a first, and a 4-2 at Rockford) to somebody else, not give them the chance to playtest with it for even a single game, and they will not be able to do as well as I did with the deck. Practice makes perfect, and a lack of practice with a particular deck means that you cannot possibly bring out its full potential.

I welcome netdeckers, I just view them as an auto-win. "What are you playing?" "The Infernape that won States" (end of game) "Why didn't this thing work for me?" "You didn't take the time to make the deck yourself"

I'd love to see this. Much better than "word of mouth" or anything like that.

 

[SLOW DECK]

I think net decking is fine for those who have too.

I don't like the fact that you would have to reveal a winning deck list to the public. Read some of the elite players world reports, they will try to find out how many Warp Points or Switches does this player run. Do they run a 1-1 line or a 2-2 line, How many DRE's, etc.

If you had to reveal winning deck lists, it should be between premier series and new set releases.

Thus the winning cities decks shouldn't be made available until after cities, assuming a new set is coming out.

 

[GinoLombardi21]

Ok net decking isnt copying 90-95 % of the list. Its copying 100% of the list. I view someones metanite and he played 2 mr. brineys compassion. I go I take one out and add in a switch. So im not decking? Im basicially fixing what I thought was clearly better. Even if u fix 1 to 2 cards its technicially not netdecking. Maybe we should call decks with 2 cards off the actual list a ALMOST NETDECK.

 

[The Gorn]

Ok net decking isnt copying 90-95 % of the list. Its copying 100% of the list. I view someones metanite and he played 2 mr. brineys compassion. I go I take one out and add in a switch. So im not decking? Im basicially fixing what I thought was clearly better. Even if u fix 1 to 2 cards its technicially not netdecking. Maybe we should call decks with 2 cards off the actual list a ALMOST NETDECK.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I'd call it a netdeck.

Copying someone's deck and changing a card or two is still copying the deck. If you feel better not calling it netdecking, then call it what you want.

But the principle is the same.

 

[Prime]

I think many players make this game out to be more competitive than it is. To the point where you just can't take a loss, and want to take advantage of every single thing so you don't lose because of luck. Because if they lose, they are just as good/bad as everyone else who didn't make the top cut at Nationals/Worlds/etc, and they don't like that one bit. That is where the groups and the SDs come from. These offer them a way to hide information from the majority, lowering the public's information and knowledge on certain ideas and in return, giving the group an advantage.

But I think it's silly. There is luck in this game for a reason. If I lose to some n00b because of luck, so what? I'll try it again next time. It's not the end of the world, even if there is a trip to Worlds on the line. Everyone seems so focused on now, and if they don't get their trip to Worlds NOW, they aren't pleased. But I see this entire thing as a journey, not just a single experience or year. If I don't get my trip to Worlds NOW, then I'll try harder next year. And if I never get my trip to Worlds, that's fine. Because I tried my best to get it and I'm going to feel proud of myself either way. But I'm going to let luck make me cut-throat to the point of hurting the community so that I have a small advantage. It's silly. It's just silly.

I look at KingGengar's Mario thread. He brought Mario into our community a little after DP came out. He supplied ample information about it, and I'd like to argue that many players learned a bit about how the deck was run and some even liked the deck and played it at tournaments and did well. Nationals came a long and it did well there too. It did as well (talking 15+ here) as the "secret deck" that was kept secret from the community. Don't you think that says something? That maybe keeping ideas secret from the community isn't the best practice? Many players might argue that releasing their "secret deck" to the public before they play it would hurt their chances tremendously, but how many players have actually tried it?

Have you tried it? Raise your hand if you have. Let's count those hands...a whopping 0. Yeah, you haven't tried it. You assume it will hurt your chances tremendously, but again, you assume. It didn't hurt KingGengar's chances, did it? And after people saw how well it did at Nats and at Battle Roads, guess who got the credit? KingGengar. He got more credit than any of those groups do that work on decks. When people think Mario, they think KingGengar, and I am proud of him for starting the ball in motion of releasing good ideas before tournaments. It's a sign of guts and it shows that you know you can play the deck better than anyone who just netdecks it the night before.

 

[Magnechu]

I don't really want to get into the main discussion, as I'm torn in both ways about it, but I wanted to reply to something Tom said.


"Decks should constantly change and evolve anyway. The enviroment should be constatnly changing as well. So one week a deck is killer and the next it is only ok."

That SHOULD be the case.
For this year, at least, this certainly was not. We saw the same general decks Cities through Regionals this year. Why? Because Power Keepers a was a generally horrible set with little new things. I think the only two archertypes that emerged were Destiny and Speed Spread, and they had little to do with PK (Absol was big in the latter obviously, but still). This format was very dull this year because you had the same card pool for all the "big" tournaments up until Nationals. Even with DP the metagame didn't shift very much.

I liked it last year and the year before in respect to getting Legend Maker and Deoxys, respectively, for the February set. Both sets added a lot of fresh ideas to the metagame after Cities. However, the Spring sets in the past two years were generally poor and needed more. Emerald brought Medicham ex while Holon Phantoms brought Castform and Delta. Anything else? No, not really I don't think.

So, if we want the metagame to be constantly changing, and therefore the top players more inclined to post their decklists, I think the sets need to spread their wealth a little bit. The past few years as well, the Summer and Fall sets have been generally very good and shape the metagame for the rest of the season. What's wrong with taking a little out of them and put it in the Spring set?

Idk, I'm rambling now. Let the debate continue.. ;x

 

[GinoLombardi21]

The Gorn- Yea its pretty much netdecking. But some people see it different if its not the exact list. I personally think it is even wit 1-2 cards different but then the technicality of a netdeck comes down and smacks the meaning of it. I build my ideas from scratch or combine ideas with my own idea into 1 deck.

 

[Lawman]

I'll say what one of my best friends and players around says all the time....

ITS THE SINGER BABY, NOT THE SONG!

(Thx to the_sniper/John S.)

Post lists.....they still wont know how to make the winning plays!

Keith

 

[DarthPika]

Say I was building a deck with a combo that pretty much any one could see, AKA metanite, dragvire, flymence.... but was having trouble geting the trainers right. If I wen't online and looked at some other ppl's list's and modified them and improved them, would that be conciderd "net decking"?

 

[Tego]

Lists need to listed WITH information about them from the person who played it. Like Chris Fulop's Absolutions decklist should be posted and Chris should post about why certain cards were used and why certain amounts were used.

I'd love to see a decent TCG website (maybe connected in some way to PUI or POP) have these lists but also have articles written on strategies (like the ones we love on the Japanese websites).

Here you go:

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

* Decklists for all of Norway's City Championships 06-07 (press "Se vinnerdeckene!")
* Norwegian Nationals winner decks 06-07
* Strategy article - 06-07 Senior and Masters National Champions explain their decks

 

[TomShea]

In a perfect world the enviroment should have at least 3 viable decks. For this discussion they are rock/paper/scizzor. In a perfect world rock beats scizzor and loses to paper. Paper loses to scizzor and beats rock and Sizzor loses to rock and beats paper. So if I am playing paper and everyone is playing scizzor it should be a long day for me. So making the right deck choice seems to be really important in helping determine my success.

The facts are that as players play decks the subtle changes that they make are found out and people copy them. I do think that some folks are taking the competitive part too far. I simply hope that players DON'T play at citys and battle roads like they are Regionals. We will truly know that we have gone too far the other way when players start attempting to rules lawyer victories. When this happens it will be time to assess more penalities under unsportsnmanlike conduct.

After all we play this game to have FUN. NOT JUST WIN>

Also just because I play a deck that a world champion created doesn't mean that I can be world champion.

Tom Shea

 

[Tego]

Another example:
* Strategy article - 05-06 11-14 National Champion explains his deck

It's doable. Norway is a much smaller country with much less tournaments, but still. In the USA, you could do only the very biggest tourneys, or select random winners at all tournament series, perhaps?

 

[SuperWooper]

It would help make the culture of the game a little less deceitful though.

Indeed. We must renounce deception and discover The Truth!

On topic...

I'd be okay with a change like this, seeing as I never win anything. Step into a top tier player's shoes, though. There are going to be people who don't want their lists released, because they use the same deck multiple times throughout the year and succeed with it consistantly. Take Eric Craig as an example. He used Speed Spread for Regionals and Nationals, and even after all his success, the list still hasn't leaked in full. Now if you made one of the conditions for having a POP account that you're required to submit your decklist if asked, think about all the sour grapes you're going to get. And to retort, "Well you know what you signed up for," is ridiculous, because I don't think any competitive player is going to refuse to play the game because of a rule like that, and due to their dedication to the game, their lists get posted for the world to see. It's not exactly a lose-lose situation, but it definitely isn't win-win, either. It'll just be a perfect opportunity for more contention and bitterness about SDs and SotG and blah blah blah. But I guess that's what the Pokegym specializes in nowadays.

 

[Tagrineth]

Ideally it'd kill off a lot of the discussion about SDs because they would be one-shot only like they're SUPPOSED TO BE in the first place.

 

[Miracle]

How is Player A (who know someone who knows someone who knows someone who can build a good deck) more deserving to do well at an event than Player B who just doesn't happen to be friends with the right people?

WOW, this isnt JUST directed towards PokePop, this is to all of you who think knowing the right people is the key to doing good in pokemon.......in some cases yes this is 100% true, but come on do you people really think that there are people out there who are like oooooooooo yeaaaa im gonna try and be his friend cuz he builds good decks or w.e, thats REALLY REALLY STUPID to say something like that,

cuz there are actually good people in this world who where friends with them BEFORE they built great decks.....when people didnt like the deck they were playing a while ago, now everyone wants to know what there playing......i dont hang out with the people i do hang out with because they are good deck builders, i hang out with the people i hangotu with because there cool people to hang out with in general, if i didnt play pokemon i would still hang out with them, and if they didnt build good decks i would still hang out with them.....so how can you people so ooooo he/she is lucky they KNOW someone who builds good decks or he/she knows someone who knows someone or w/e.............THIS is the part of the game we need to stop:nonono:.....y would you want to know someone ONLY because they build good decks.....like i said before i hang out with the people i hang out with because there kool to hang with..........and even thou it may seem like im sayin this oer and over, well its cuz i am, nobody listens to somethng when there told only once..........

read more please this gets interesting...........

take no offense to what your about to read, cuz if u get mad, jus realize that i could care less, b-cuz the thuth hurts , and nobody likes the thruth.....:redface:

RANDOM NAMES: JOSEF,AL,NICK,TIM,LIST OF TIMES FRIENDS,"GROUPS"(coughlafontecough)

JOSEF: Builds ground shaking decks decks, only tells his good friends/relatives about these decks---josefs are nice people

AL: trys constantly to build good decks but usually fails, then goes to josef for help, and josef realizes that AL, is actually TRYING to build good decks, so josef tells AL about his decks, even thou he knows AL is still gonna try and build a better deck which is impossible.....lol---ALs are nice/stuborn people

NICK: sits on his you know what alday waiting on josef to build a new deck,---lazy people

TIM: a friend of nick's---lazy people

LIST OF TIM's FRIENDS: waites on tim to get word from nick about "tha" new deck---EXTREMELY LAZY PEOPLE

"GROUPS": groups make up decks and the groups friends who arent in the group gets told about the groups deck, and it gets passed along to randoms.....some are good people, some are idiots, some dont have a clue why there in the group, and some are just in there to spread word about the good decks to there friends

Now, i would guess that a lot of people on the gym would NOT call themselves a "NICK" or "LIST OF TIMS FRIENDS", even thou they are.........

and there are a lot of group members or team's on here.........(no comment, cuz there are too many 'teams' or 'groups' on here anywayz)

and there are about 1-3 TRUE Josefs i would say that posts on pokegym, and they might not post that there josef's but they are, and everyone should know who these josefs are............

i would say that i am a AL, who is close with a josef and knows a lot of nick's and tims, and list of tims friends, and i ONCE wanted to join a "group" but shorty realizing that i didnt know why i wanted to join that group, and even thou i didnt get in, if i woulda got in i wouldnt have been that active in claiming that group anywayz, so in reality im sorta glad i didnt get chosen to join that "group".....



YOUR VERY WELCOME, and feel free to tell the gym what you REALLY are...........

 

[PokePop]

Miracle: Don't take my words out of context!
I was replying to a post about Ambush and how that was shared among friends at nats.

I never (NEVER!) said that a single person was friends with anyone for the sole reason of getting a good deck.
Please show me where that was said!
To quote you, that would be really really stupid to say.

 

[SLOW DECK]

The deck builders biggest fear.

To be beaten by their own deck by someone they don't even know.

I love playing certain people over the years. AJDreamChaser for example will always play red face paint, and he will ussually put together some descent ones. I ussually play my own build, and don't want to share it with the masses. Call me selfish, but I want the game to be about my deck versus another deck. The net decker match ups, I just don't enjoy as much as red face paint versus red face paint.

 

[Articjedi]

Does posting decks really contribute to netdecking? Netdeckers will find a list for a competitive idea whether you like it or not. Although I hate looking at these threads where people ask you to build a list from scratch for them, posting the actual list won't kill their zeal to find a winning decklist and copying it.

The fun crowd has their leagues, and really why should you care if you do poorly, you had your fun playing the game like you normally did right? Or is there some competitive edge that you're hiding because someone had a more consistant, better built, more powerful deck than you did?

I really wonder what's worse, letting secret decks out into the public? Or basically ensuring that NOT being a part of pokemon elite guarantees 0-3 drop at every tournament you enter?