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A question for all you McCain supporters...

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Just one more thing - if it's necessary for one to be "born again" to be Christian, then what happens to those infants or mentally handicapped people who are never baptized or never announce Jesus as their savior? They surely don't go to "heck".

Just something to ponder...
 
PokemansForGeeks said:
Just one more thing - if it's necessary for one to be "born again" to be Christian, then what happens to those infants or mentally handicapped people who are never baptized or never announce Jesus as their savior? They surely don't go to "heck".

Just something to ponder...
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I suggest that you research purgatory.

BTW, thankyou pokedad for saving me a lot of typing. lol I don't even want to think how long that must have taken to type up. o_O Anyway, great job of clearly explaing what baptisim really is about.

Oh, for all those of you who say if a baby is baptized they wern't really "born again" as they have no idea whats going on, this is false. Catholics celabrate confirmation sometime in early teanage years, which is where they CONFIRM their belief in God.
 
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Purgatory? =\

That is one of the most illogical, radical ideas I've ever heard of. Please don't tell me you seriously believe in that.

Good thing I've never heard of it because it just lowered my moral expectations of Catholics/anyone who believes in that even further.
 
Actually, I'd submit that all Catholicism(sp?) stems from Christianity. When Jesus was alive on the earth, he certainly didn't say that we must pray to his mother, no did he say that we must baptize our babies.
Of course, we can see that the major denomination that grew out of the early church in the centuries was Catholicism, but its roots were the teachings of Jesus himself.

Geeks said:
Just one more thing - if it's necessary for one to be "born again" to be Christian, then what happens to those infants or mentally handicapped people who are never baptized or never announce Jesus as their savior? They surely don't go to "heck".
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Being baptized isn't a requirement to be saved. It is an act of obedience that shows what has already occurred in the heart of the person. It's a public profession of faith, not the actual saving act.
I honestly cannot tell you what happens to mentally handicapped people, nor am I sure on what happens to babies. In my studies, I have yet to come across an answer... sorry...
 
Ok the only reason I Support this guy is because if obama gets elected then the world is going to be all screwed up.. Obama has a very vague idea of what he wants, he always contradicts himself saying hes gonna do one thing, then do another... Taxes are gonna go up so much just so people that are to lazy to get a job can live on welfare, and illegal immigrants are gonna be able to come to the USA and get free health care? Were paying our taxes for that?!?! come on now.. Obama is WAY WAY to un-experienced and once he pulls the troops out of the middle east it's going to be world war 3 because Israel is going to bomb the middle easy, and then Russia and middle east are going to be against US Israel and Australia.. Oh and then once obama gets Assassinated after the first couple months in office Joe Biden is going to be president who is worse then BUSH any ways... So the real question is why do you support obama?

Hes only been in the senate for 62 days or something stupid.. And all he was is a community organizer..


Just my opinion..
 
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I'm Currently Undecied

I like John Macains military background and overall experience but I have some serious concerns about Sarah Palin.
 
I do not have the time to quote all things said on this thread. I am about to leave, but I want to touch on something...

PokemansForGeeks said:
So all Christians must be "born-again" Christians to be considered Christian? lol.

I'm not "born again" and I consider myself very Christian. I'm not going to get into the whole "born again" thing but let's just say I think it's a load of bs.
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John ch. 3 completely destroys everything you just said.

Of course you must be born again to be called a Christian. To disagree is to disagree with ALL OF CHRISTIANITY. How can one who is dead in sin come alive in Christ unless they are born again? To say that it is a "load of anything" except truth is saying that Jesus was a liar.



@DarthPika

I do not want to offend anyone, so I will make this short and sweet. Purgatory is not mentioned one time in the entire Bible.
 
Prize_Card said:
Ok the only reason I Support this guy is because if obama gets elected then the world is going to be all screwed up.. Obama has NO IDEA what he wants, he always contradicts himself saying hes gonna do one thing, then do another... Taxes are gonna go up SO MUCH just so people that are to lazy to get a job can live on welfare, and ILLEGAL immigrants are gonna be able to come to the USA and get free health care? Were paying our taxes for that?!?! come on now.. Obama is WAY WAY to un-experienced and once he pulls the troops out of the middle east it's going to be world war 3 because Israel is going to bomb the middle easy, and then Russia and middle east are going to be against US Israel and Australia.. Oh and then once obama gets Assassinated after the first couple months in office Joe Biden is going to be president who is worse then BUSH any ways... So the real question is WHY DO YOU SUPPORT OBAMA??

And for those people who say We need someone new!! NEW ISN'T ALWAYS BETTER! Hes only been in the senate for 62 days or something stupid.. And all he was is a community organizer..


Just my opinion..
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No. please do go on, you make such great points. You might sway me with some more of your brilliant points. Don't hold back, you are drawing the perfect picture of McCain support with your post. Have you thought about posting your persuasive, well grounded, thoughts on other forums too? It would be a shame if you didn't share your gift with others.
 
Prize_Card said:
^ Sarcasm much??? Whats your opinion?
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"Ok the only reason I Support this guy is because:

if obama gets elected then the world is going to be all screwed up.."


I don't know if you read newspapers or watch television news, but the world is currently "screwed up", and the failed policies of the Bush Administration are largely the reason. We have alienated much of the nations of the world, squandering empathy and support after the 9/11 attacks, to engage in an unwarranted war and occupation in Iraq. Our enormous deficit spending in support of an unnecessary war of choice, without increasing tax revenues to pay for it, have lead to a weakening of the dollar. The weakening of the dollat has lead to higher oil prices. Higher oil prices have lead to tightened household budgets, and unpaid bills. Unpaid bills lead to a tightening of credit and higher interest rates. Higher interest rates lead to home mortgage defaults. Home mortgage defaults lead to business failures. Business failures have lead to the melt down of the domestic stock markets. The melt down of the domestic stock markets have rippled across the world as international stock markets have lost considerable value. In addition to the mismanagement of the economy through "maverick" Bush foreign entaglements, the world looks at America and sees a country that has chosen extraordinary rendition, enhanced interrogation, waterboarding, torture, Abu Gharab, Guantanamo, a suspension of Habeus Corpus, and then reels in horror and revulsion. The world will be screwed up, no matter who is elected. Only one candidate offers a hope of leading us away from the dark days of the Bush Presidency; McCain, with a 90-95% voting support of Bush's follies offers more of the same.

"Obama has NO IDEA what he wants, he always contradicts himself saying hes gonna do one thing, then do another... "

I will wait for you to provide examples, with links. I will then respond and provide a longer list of McCain flip-flops.

"Taxes are gonna go up SO MUCH just so people that are to lazy to get a job can live on welfare,"

Taxes will decrease for 95% of Americans under Obama. More people will paid higher taxes under McCain than Obama. I am a business owner, while revenue is higher, I do not see $250,000 in profits and my taxes will decrease with Obama. I clear less under Bush than I did under Clinton. Please deliver me from McCain's continuation of Bush economic policy, I welcome an Obama led business and tax environment.

"and ILLEGAL immigrants are gonna be able to come to the USA and get free health care? Were paying our taxes for that?!?! come on now.. "

McCain is the one who cosponsored legislation to permit illegal aliens to pay lower in-state tuition rates denied to some students that are in the country legally, supporting Social Security benefits for illegals and voting against an amendment last year that would have permanently barred gang members, terrorists and other criminals from the United States.

"Obama is WAY WAY to un-experienced"

"I've spent 20 years devoted to working on behalf of families who are having a tough time and are seeking out the American dream."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/390/

"I've spent 20 years devoted to working on behalf of families who are having a tough time and they're seeking out the American dream. That's how I started my career in public service."

We find Obama's claim of two decades' experience to be accurate.

To arrive at this number, we looked closely at Obama's official congressional biography, his professional resume and news articles chronicling his political rise in Illinois.

If Obama wins election and takes office in January 2009, he will have served four years in the U.S. Senate representing Illinois.

Before that, he was a state senator in Illinois for eight years. He also was a senior lecturer at the University of Chicago law school during that time.

His schedule from the school shows him teaching two or three classes in the fall and winter terms — usually Constitutional Law III: Equal Protection and Substantive Due Process; Voting Rights and the Democratic Process; and Current Issues in Racism and the Law. In the spring, he would attend the Illinois legislative sessions. It seems a fairly safe bet that, like most legislators, his constituent work — fielding phone calls and helping people in his district — went on year round. Press reports indicate he did a small amount of private law practice during the summer. So that's eight years as a public official in Illinois, bringing our total to 12 years.

To get to 20 years of experience, we still need eight years from Obama's career prior to holding public office. Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983. He worked for a year as a financial analyst; in his memoir he said he spent his days behind a computer terminal, "checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages across the globe" and feeling like "a spy behind enemy lines." He gave up that job to go into community organizing, work he felt was more important politically. He worked three years as a community organizer in Chicago before going to Harvard Law School. We won't count the junior-level business experience as working "on behalf of families who are having a hard time," but the community organizing work does seem to fit the bill. That brings his work experience to 15 years.

At Harvard, Obama began to receive national attention. He became the first black president of the Harvard Law Review and was recruited heavily by law firms around the country. (He met his future wife, Michelle Robinson, as a summer associate at the Chicago firm Sidley Austin.)

He graduated in 1991. He ran Illinois Project Vote, a voter registration drive, for much of 1992, and then accepted a position with the Chicago firm Miner, Barnhill & Galland. The firm specialized in political and civil rights work and neighborhood economic development work. He also began teaching at the University of Chicago in 1993. He was elected to the Illinois state Senate in 1996 and took office in 1997, so his full-time work after law school comprises five years. That gets us to 20 years.

(During these years, Obama also worked on his career as an author. His memoir Dreams from my Father was published in 1994 and reprinted after his speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004. A follow-up, The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream, was published in 2006. His personal financial disclosure statements show that those books earned him $1.8-million in 2005 and 2006, the majority of his income.)

The other part of Obama's claim is that his experience is "on behalf of families who are having a tough time and are seeking out the American dream." We take that to mean his experience is broadly in the field of public service, and that too is an accurate claim. The bulk of Obama's professional experience is either in elected office or working for a nonprofit, a university or a civil rights law firm.

"and once he pulls the troops out of the middle east it's going to be world war 3 "

Obama has no plans to pull troops out of the middle east; he does plan on shifting the focus and troops away from the continued occupation of Iraq back to the real front on the war on terror in Afghanistan (it is right next door).

"because Israel is going to bomb the middle easy, "

I assume that the middle easy is not another name for the big easy, New Orleans, but that you meant to type middle east.

As the first part of your of your statement is not accurate, do you still hold that Israel is going to bomb the middle east? If so, which country or countries?

"and then Russia and middle east are going to be against US Israel and Australia.. "

You forgot China. Anyway, as this is merely a continuation of your incorrect assertion, this also becomes moot.

"Oh and then once obama gets Assassinated after the first couple months in office "

Sadly, this possibility becomes more real as the McCain/Palin campaign incite through fear based attacks their supporters to cry out "terrorist" and Kill him", then rather than respond, retool, or rethink, the campaign chooses to increase the vitriol.

"Joe Biden is going to be president who is worse then BUSH any ways... "

Again, in what ways do you feel that Joe Biden is worse than Bush? Please be specific and provide links for assertions if possible. Then I will respond to your specific charges.

"So the real question is WHY DO YOU SUPPORT OBAMA??"

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I support Obama because, in addition to judgement superior to McCain's, he has detailed and superior positions than McCain on civil rights, defense, disabilities, economy/taxes, education, energy/environment, ethics, faith, family, fiscal, foreign policy, healthcare, homeland security, immigration, Iraq, poverty, rural policy, service, seniors/social security, technology, urban policy, veterans, and women's rights.

"And for those people who say We need someone new!! NEW ISN'T ALWAYS BETTER! "

You are correct. McCain would be new as a President, but as a near carbon copy of Bush he wouldn't be better, just more of the same.

"Hes only been in the senate for 62 days or something stupid.. And all he was is a community organizer.."

When Obama is sworn in as President, he will have been a US Senator for 1,460 days.

Jesus was just a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a Governor.


"Just my opinion.."

Yes, just opinion, but no fact to back one single assertion up.
 
Sarcasm, because unlike, Boofu (who I've gained a newfound respect for because he actually posts intelligently), Kettler, who's been a friend of mine for years, Pokedad, who loves his articles, and Lawman, just to give out another example, there's a lot of guys on this thread that just post crappy opinions and can't back them up.
 
The thing about these issues is to actually do a little research instead of simply believing the talking heads. Too many folks take the easy way out and want to believe the 'rumors' and innuendos. All they do is back up their own bias' and prejudices. I have voted for republicans and democrats on the local, state and national levels. I take this seriously. Everyone should. Dont vote a certain way because that is the way you "were raised" or your parents believed that way. Vote what you feel is proper for you. Dont be just a one issue voter either IMO bc that person may be aligned with you on every other important and small issue except one.

Keith
 
This is not a "what does it take to be a Christian" thread.

Please keep it on topic.
 
"Dont vote a certain way because that was the way you "were raised"..."

Lawman wins the thread with that quote. I don't know if he was referring to ME (being Texan and all :lol:), but it's true nonetheless! We ought to be forming our own opinions, sifting through bias, and come to the best judgments we can.
 
Cyrus said:
"Dont vote a certain way because that was the way you "were raised"..."

Lawman wins the thread with that quote. I don't know if he was referring to ME (being Texan and all :lol:), but it's true nonetheless! We ought to be forming our own opinions, sifting through bias, and come to the best judgments we can.
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Thx Kettler. I wasnt aiming at you either, just all voters.

A secretary for our office is going to vote for Obama. Her hubby is leaning towards McCain. They are both much younger than I. Neither one knew about the "Keating Five" situation. I'm not saying that this issue will change the hubby's mind, but it might, after they do their own research. Many folks here dont know about the Keating Five issue bc it happened in the mid to late 80s. The hearings were in 1990. I know several folks here werent even born yet or at best, only 5-8 yrs old. (About the same age Barack would have been in the 60s when Ayers was doing his thing w/ the Underground.)

Keith
 
I really hate when ppl say that "McCain has more experience." It really is a bland statement and NO ONE has experience once going into office so they r both NOOBS. but anyways OBAMA FTW!!!
 
Both have ZERO experience as president.

Both have ZERO experience as executives. The only one of four in this race with _any_ executive experience is Palin.

So if experience is a voting issue for you, then analyze the quality and quantity of each candidate's subservience (not leadership) in the Senate.

Mr. Obama doesn't have a lot of experience in the senate, but he does have a lot of subservience. Mr. McCain, on the other hand, has a lot of experience, but relatively very little subservience. He'll kick George Bush where it hurts to win this election.
 
Pokedad I'm sorry but your stilll on wait. I need to get some sleep tonight I just got out of a 12 hour day and for the past 2 weeks, this week and next 2 weeks I do not have a day off. You have to cut me a break my brain is fried. I have seen a lot of great arguments and I want to give them all my full attention. However before I crash for the night and have to wake up to go back to work. I did want to touch on this.

PokemansForGeeks said:
Are you afraid of having a president with a different faith than you?

If it was even true, and this was debunked before he even was the presidential nominee, Obama is a Christian. I can't stand people who think he's a different religion just because of his name.

I hope you know that Islam is extremely similar to Christianity.
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:nonono: Ok I saw this and I had to clear it up. I don't care what his beliefs are. What i do believe is DON"T LIE! STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN! Ok I can see that I'm going to have to back up this one. So here they are

Source one
Source Two

Even if he is a Christian now he has still denied studying the Quran and if he didn't study the Quran hes still lied when he wrote in In "Dreams...," that he did study it. Either way hes a lair.

I need to clear something up right now before I was a Christan I was forced to go to church I hated it! I finally found some friends and began studying wicken. However later in life I found my way back to Christianity. This being true I don't deny anything that I've done nor lie to cover it up. I don't care what you believe but TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT IT!
 
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